Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lennie Briscoe

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:02, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lennie Briscoe

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Many sources in the article are primary, there's a reception section but it only lists what list the character was part of. A quick Google search does not give any sources that prove individual notability, and per WP:N, it is not worth a standalone article. If the character is not notable, I suggest a redirect and/or merge to List of Law & Order characters. Spinixster (chat!) 10:30, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Television. Spinixster (chat!) 10:30, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: There's enough in the existing sources to qualify for GNG (which is a very minimal standard remember). Macktheknifeau (talk) 17:58, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Macktheknifeau Would you care to clarify how it qualifies for GNG? The existing reliable secondary sources are more about the actor or are primary. Spinixster (chat!) 10:30, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is enough coverage in the sources for subject notability. Macktheknifeau (talk) 10:55, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Macktheknifeau Can you give proof? Right now, the reliable sources are so:
an interview with a producer who mentions the character as her favorite.

an obituary of the actor that briefly mentions the character.

a book which is a biography of the actor, which is arguably primary. Either way, the book only mentions the character in plot summaries.

The rest are character lists.

More sources that talk extensively about the character in a real-world perspective would be needed to meet GNG. Spinixster (chat!) 11:36, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:05, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, easily. I see plenty of avenues for sources not already included in the article. BD2412 T 23:56, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The source you added talk more about the casting rather than the character. SIGCOV needs to be about the character from a real-world perspective, not the hiring of the actor. Spinixster (chat!) 01:09, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, there is no such rule, nor would it make sense. Of course casting is an important element of a character, and content on casting is significant to the notability of the character. Secondly, I am in the middle of adding content relevant to the development of the character. BD2412 T 01:19, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is such a rule, it's listed in the SNG for fiction (WP:FICT). Having sources on casting and development does not guarantee notability, rather more sources on the reception and the significance of the character in the real world would. See also Wikipedia:Plot-only description of fictional works and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Writing about fiction. Spinixster (chat!) 02:28, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion of casting and development is in no way "plot"; plot is by definition in-universe. Sources paying substantial attention to the casting and writing of a character is every bit as indicative of the notability of the character as the reception and influence of that character. BD2412 T 02:40, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I never said it was plot, I just said that more sources about the reception and significance of the character would be needed to prove notability. This reminds me of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/D.B. Russell, where there is information about the casting but the character is still considered not to be notable. Spinixster (chat!) 02:46, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay then: Paige Newman, In praise of Lennie Briscoe", Today (December 29, 2004). Of course there will be sources for the reception of longstanding characters on popular series. You just need to look for them more diligently. BD2412 T 03:06, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I was looking for. The problem is more sources like that would be needed, but I'm sure according to what you said that's not the only one. Spinixster (chat!) 06:50, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.