Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mark Chasan (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to EMusic. This is not a strong consensus but I don't think relisting the discussion another week will bring in more participants. I'm not sure about this but I think after a Merge is done, the article could be moved to Draft space rather than be deleted so that it could continue to be improved if there is an experienced editor who wants to take that on. I've never closed a discussion with that Merge, then Draft/Redirect option but if this violates Wikipedia policy, I'm sure someone will tell me. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:26, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Chasan

AfDs for this article:

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Promo article, lacks in-depth coverage in reliable sources. Fails WP:SIGCOV. US-Verified (talk) 01:05, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning move to draft. I am not seeing any clearly independent sources used in the article that also provide in-depth coverage. That said, I do think that the aggregate of coverage in some sources (particularly regarding a controversial property development in Hawaii which is covered in the cited sources but not reflected in the article) could yield evidence of encyclopedic notability. BD2412 T 01:40, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Businesspeople, Music, Law, Internet, Websites, and California. Skynxnex (talk) 05:32, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to eMusic. Individual does not meet WP:BIO on their own, but there's some information about the history of eMusic here that is not included in that article. —siro χ o 06:54, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to eMusic, merge any necessary info to eMusic as per siro. This article was created by user "Guruvie" which is both a presumed nickname of Chasan and also a trademark once owned by him. Major blocks of text have been added by SPAs. The article is notably void of independent sources to support the bio. Lamona (talk) 05:13, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I agree with many of the points made by @BD2412, and now that the subject’s role in the widely covered controversial Hawaii property development is added, the article clears the bar for encyclopedic notability. Coverage includes independent sources such as Billboard Magazine, Business Town, Maui Time, Maui Public Radio and more. To @Lamona’s point: I would agree if the current text of the article was from @Guruvie, however it’s pretty clear that the article has been rewritten and cited reliably since then and that user hasn’t edited the page in over 10 years. It is also worth noting that the result of the first nomination for AfD here was a keep and given the Hawaii section, he has only become more notable since the article’s creation. Editchecker123 (talk) 07:53, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as I'm seeing editors advocating Deletion, Draftification, Merging, Redirection and Keeping. So, no consensus yet.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:27, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Editchecker123, I disagree that the article has been re-written post Guruvie. In fact, that account, and two other SPA accounts, contributed significantly to the article even after the first AFD. That AFD, btw, was closed by a now-blocked account. Much of the activity on the article has been cleanup, as is often the case, and removal of poor content. The "controversy" in Hawaii is not about him, and he is mentioned in the articles but that is all. His book is self-published and sells for $2.99 - even at that, it is not in the top 100 in a very small category. That saved Amazon page and the info about the book was added by a IPV6 SPA, and it probably had to be done the very day that the book appeared on Amazon. BTW, that page says "Our best-selling new and future releases" and the Amazon page predates the actual sales date by about 10 days. (Amazon page=September 20, 2022, publication date=October 3, 2022. I think it's pretty clear that the book was not a best seller before it was published. Lamona (talk) 05:06, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

After rereading the sources I agree in-part with this, I went back through the entire article today and edited it to make sure the copy was not exaggerating the sources. It feels in a good place now from that perspective. I was also able to find 3 in-depth independently written profiles of Mark Chasan which addresses BD2412 and your other notes above: 1) Business Town from the 1990s, 2) Maui Times from the 2010s, and 3) Troora Magazine from the 2020s. To the point on Maui, many of the articles are directed at both the project and him personally (such as this and this). Overall on his notability, he did found eMusic which was a pioneer in its time according to multiple cited sources listed in the article, he was involved in its IPO, the site is still around today, and we have not debated that fact. It would seem that alone would be enough for an encyclopedic entry, given WP:BIO:

• Overall Criteria 2: "The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field" (eMusic in its entirety would fill this)

• Creative Professionals Criteria 2: "The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique" (eMusic streaming vs. CD purchases would fill this)

• Creative Professionals Criteria 3: "The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews" (the controversial property development in Maui would fill this given the amount of Hawaii press it generated) Editchecker123 (talk) 17:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to eMusic. I was asked to come here and comment, since I commented on the original AfD in 2009. I don't have a strong feeling about this article, except that it should not be deleted. The best solution would probably be to merge information about him to eMusic. And I do mean "merge information about him", not just redirect. My hesitation to say "keep" is that while the article has many sources, they are pretty much all minor or local; I'm not seeing the major news coverage that would lead me to an undisputed "keep". He gets a mention in a Washington Post article; that's about it. As for the dispute about his proposed development in Maui, that appears to be entirely a local, neighborhood situation that didn't attract much notice even in the rest of the state. -- MelanieN (talk) 15:43, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.