Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ralek Gracie

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Gracie family. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:24, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ralek Gracie

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Fails WP:NMMA and hasn't won any world titles in BJJ Nswix (talk) 05:27, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Sports, and Martial arts. Nswix (talk) 05:27, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Brazil and California. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 08:35, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ I see nothing that shows he meets any WP notability criteria. There's no evidence, or even claim, of significant BJJ success. None of the coverage seems to be significant and independent. There's also nothing to show the promotion he created is WP notable. Merely being a member of the Gracie family does not show WP notability because of WP:NOTINHERITED. Papaursa (talk) 01:50, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Papaursa - Please see the updated references.KatoKungLee (talk) 03:14, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple references saying he signed with Bellator does not show WP notability nor does routine sports reporting like fight announcements, results, or databases. I see no evidence that shows he meets the notability criteria for MMA fighters (WP:NMMA), actors WP:NACTOR, or musicians (WP:NMUSICIAN). The promotion he created folded after a small number of shows and doesn't appear to be notable. If you find evidence he meets WP notability criteria please let me know, but as of right now I am not seeing it. Papaursa (talk) 13:33, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Papaursa - He easily passes WP:GNG. He should not be put fully under the MMA category since he was never a full-time fighter.KatoKungLee (talk) 14:53, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Don't just claim he easily passes WP:GNG, I'd refer you to WP:THREE. Show the best sources and if he really "easily passes" it shouldn't be hard to convince us. You're inexperienced at AfD discussions, so please consider this some helpful advice. Papaursa (talk) 02:12, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't actually see you say that he does not pass WP:GNG. Are you even making the claim? He's got ESPN, USA Today and Score Media and Gaming (One of the top Canadian sports publications) writing about him, which they aren't doing for other 2 win fighters. He got to semi-main a 12,700 fan show with Sakuraba, whose the most famous Japanese MMA guy ever minus Inoki. He got roles in movies, television shoes and got a song made about him and his promotion was deemed notable enough to have its own article here. And he just happens to be from the most famous MMA family ever with his brother Rener Gracie, having an article here despite doing less and having less sources. I'd even make the case he's more notable judging by accomplishments than Ralph Gracie is and perhaps Rodrigo Gracie is. Him getting coverage before he even did anything is also another sign of notability, as he did in the 2 Black Belt Magazine sources. He also has two other wiki pages as well.KatoKungLee (talk) 05:42, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What is unclear about my initial statement, "I see nothing that shows he meets any WP notability criteria"? The sources you mention are two that mention him signing a one fight contract with Bellator and one fight result. None of these qualify as a source meeting WP:GNG. Again, being a Gracie doesn't show WP notability and comparing him to other articles is meaningless (see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS). Notability is not inherited from his opponent. Please look at the SNGs I mentioned previously to see that having movie or TV roles also is insufficient to show notability. To avoid WP:BLUDGEON, this is my last comment on this topic unless you can show GNG is met. Papaursa (talk) 14:17, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've provided ample evidence as to why he's notable KatoKungLee (talk) 16:49, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - @Nswix - Please see the updated references as I added a bunch. He was featured in some movies, television shows and songs. He has his own IMDB page. He has his own Sherdog profile. He semi-main evented important MMA shows. He was part of the arguably most famous MMA storyline ever with Sakuraba vs The Gracie Family. Also, The Gracies have their own page here for a reason as their contributions to MMA are endless and you really do have to judge them as a whole than as judge individual parts.KatoKungLee (talk) 02:27, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Having Sherdog and IMDB profiles definitely doesn't mean you meet WP:NMMA, neither does being from a famous family. Nswix (talk) 06:46, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nswix - He easily passes WP:GNG. He should not be put fully under the MMA category since he never was a full-time fighter.KatoKungLee (talk) 14:53, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Doesn't appear to meet WP:NMMA. As mentioned above, notability is not inherited and being a part of the Gracie family seems to be their primary claim to fame. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would also support a redirect to Gracie Family. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:23, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, I agree with Papaursa's assessment, the sources do not show he meets GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 00:40, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also support redirection. JoelleJay (talk) 18:58, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Gracie family: Article lacks SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth. BLPs should always have clear and unambiguous sourcing and this article does not have it. // Timothy :: talk 03:30, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This is pretty much a consensus to delete but relisting once to allow consideration of the redirect option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 10:19, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Gracie family. Not independently notable. Carson Wentz (talk) 03:14, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Gracie family. I have struck my previous delete vote. Papaursa (talk) 21:35, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.