Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Max Mux

The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the talk page of this case. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, read this for detailed instructions.

User:Max Mux

Suspected sockpuppeteer: Max Mux (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Suspected sockpuppets: 84.134.86.74 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log); 84.134.70.179 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log); 84.134.68.243 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log); 84.134.65.59 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log); 84.134.70.238 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) blocked in 13 June 2008 for 31 hours; 84.134.57.121 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log); 84.134.66.162 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log); 84.134.91.187 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) deleted by administrator; 84.134.83.124 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) deleted by administrator; 84.134.96.240 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log); 84.134.88.242 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Report submission by

Magioladitis (talk) 19:29, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence

Edit warring in Treaty of Lisbon. Check article's history. User warned in User talk:Max Mux to stop reverting but seems to ignore all warnings. Personal attacks to users. (for example [1], [2], [3], [4]). Refusal to respect new policy for date linking according to WP:MOSNUM (examples: [5], [6]). Disruptive editing (examples: [7], [8]).

Case is connected to Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Jakezing. (Check also Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Jakezing). Max Mux is not new around. Some edits go back to May 2008 and maybe earlier.

Comments

Confirm A few weeks back I reverted a single disruptive edit by Max Mux and my User Talk page was immediately blanked by one of the IP 'sock puppets' above. Max Mux then started adding repetetive comments to my talk page expressing 'non understanding' while a number of pages I had built or edited were vandalised by the above suspected IPs. Max Mux appears to come into direct and acrimonious conflict with almost every editor he comes into contact with. 21stCenturyGreenstuff (talk) 19:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Max Mux was told as early as 15 September that mosdat had changed see User_talk:Max_Mux#Wikilinking dates and has been reminded by others since, but three weeks later he is still using his anonymous IP sockpuppets to add date wikilinks AND beligerently accusing editors of 'vandalism' when they correctly revert his incorrect edits. 21stCenturyGreenstuff (talk) 22:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unsure I'm not sure about sockpuppeteering, but this editor does come into direct conflict with me, and several other editors. He has engaged in a talk page war with User:Jakezing, even when I had warned several times to stop. When I responded to Jakezing about Max, Max literally demanded to know what was going on, even posting more than once to find out. --(GameShowKid)--(talk)--(evidence)-- 19:50, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Confirm: I confirm this report. See below. --(GameShowKid)--(talk)--(evidence)-- 20:07, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Have I not the right to know a reason when people won't talk with me?84.134.86.74 (talk) 20:06, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Max, don't forget to log in!!! I think his comment above is evidence that Max is not deliberately using sockpuppets - he's just a numpty that keeps forgetting to log in. Bazonka (talk) 12:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh no Bazonka, that is not true. There have been several occasions where he has alternated between logged in and non logged posts in the space of several minutes. His anonymous IPs have made statements in support of his logged in identity trying to imply that they are from other people. It was done deliberately and he has done it many times in several locations. However, I think it is beginning to dawn on him that the anonymous IPs are not as untraceable as he first assumed...hence the sudden rush of apologies 21stCenturyGreenstuff (talk) 16:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Check the revision history of Treaty of Lisbon. Max Mux reverted 8 times an edit using various anonymous IPs. -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You may well be right, but it's exceedingly idiotic to post using an IP address to a page that's complaining about you using IP addresses. Bazonka (talk) 11:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More evidence Check the series of edits in [[9]]. Anonymous IPs 84.134.xx.xxx keep reverting a user talk page. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:11, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the edits were made by me others not. Please accept my apologies if I have done something wrong also accept that I won't tolerate bad behavior from others.Max Mux (talk) 20:47, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My thoughts as a (unwilling) participant in this saga - Hey guys, this user has been a problem for me in the past. Under the 84.134 IPs he would blank my talkpage and mindlessly revert my non-Kosovo edits. Ironically, I mistakenly thought that he may have been User:Jakezing, so I made a check user case which you can see here: [10] . I documented over 20 different occasions where the IP wikistalked me somehow. But keep in mind this activity occured over the summer. 84.134 IP/User:Max Mux was formally warned and he has not bothered me since. Since the summer I've haven't had a problem with him at all, but I do see him occasionally on some Kosovo talkpages using the IP addresses instead of his user name. However, now knowing that he is using the same tactics against others that he used against me makes me unsympathetic towards him, and I tend to be a bleeding heart on things like this. --Tocino 03:40, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was angry at Tocino for his agressive pro-serbian and anti-Kosovo POV. But I have apologized because I know that bad behavior doesn't help against other bad behavior.Max Mux (talk) 07:07, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why you are still angry with me about that? As I said I have long since apologized. Some of the above mentioned edits were not even made by me. Max Mux (talk) 18:55, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"it wasn't me" dosn't cut it when they were in the same style, same ideal, same word style, same hatred, I doubt somebody else with essentialy your ip, would keep editing the same page and make comments in reply to replies and statements adressed to another IP.

Hell, he left undeniabl;e proof he is socking, look at my talk page history, 84.134.118.38 made a reply in the name of Max, but, this ip ias different from the ip he used to post here. That alone is a good reason to show he's being a naughty niaghty deutscher...

I support sock puppetitingp punishment for max, although his many ip's show banning him wont be easy. Second tocino... that was insulting tyhat you'd think i was the one being bad to you, i dont resort to petty vandalism--Jakezing (talk) 22:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It does not cut it with me either. There is doubt all the sock puppet actions, vandalisms to my talk page and stalking my edits were done by one person in a very short timescale. Max can deny it all he wants, but the truth is out there 21stCenturyGreenstuff (talk) 22:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't deny anything. I repeat it to express it clear: I have made most of the edits. I have treated Tocino the wrong way. His bad behavior is no reason for me to behave in such a way too and I have long since apologized for it. Before I didn't realize that I was rstricted to edit only when logged in. Now I'm very careful to log in every time I make an edit. I have tried to talk to User: Magioladitis but he has reverted my comments. I think thats not the way to solve a problem.Max Mux (talk) 07:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC) And I must add that the dates look much better otherwise.Max Mux (talk) 08:47, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Max, you LIEDabout it, you told us it wasn;'t you, know it was? You ABUSED the fact your ip changes, you VANDALISED on them, you'sve done enough to be BANNED justr for vandalism alone.--Jakezing (talk) 11:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have not lied. I have more than one time clearly stated that MOST of the edits were made by me but SOME are not. Max Mux (talk) 14:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just ban him for a few hours so he learns his lesson and we can close this! --(GameShowKid)--(talk)--(evidence)-- 15:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have already learned my lesson.Max Mux (talk) 16:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I actually think that you might have. Time will tell 21stCenturyGreenstuff (talk) 17:01, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see little attempt to conceal his identity. I don't think the problem in this case is socking; I think it's the way a number of editors have been interacting. Laying aside his content disputes on Talk:International reaction to the 2008 declaration of independence by Kosovo, most of his contentious edits seem to be fueled by frustration (look at his periods of mass talk-page spamming). I think he wants to improve the encyclopedia, but he feels alienated and frustrated.

I see disputes and conflicts with other editors, and a period around three or four months ago of incivility (probably out of frustration, like I said), but from what I've seen I see no reason to take action against Max Mux for sockpuppetry other than to kindly remind him to log in when he edits and to observe WP:3RR. He's said several times here that most of the edits are his, and from my digging it seems that he's always acted like the same person whether logged in or logged out. I didn't find any edit where he actually referred to one of his other aliases as another person. If you think you have a diff where he is doing so, run it by me on my talk page and I'll look at it.

Further, I see that he has somewhat toned down in terms of being civil and wants to talk to other editors. While I agree that he has been a little too persistent in making edits like this (and the subsequent reversions), and that he needs to learn when to let something go, these can (hopefully) be addressed by politely discussing the issue with the user. I will try to talk to him.

I think we should keep an eye on him, talk to him about the conflicts he's involved in right now, teach him Wikipedia policy, and encourage him to be nice. And please, let's all be extra-nice to him. A lot of his frustration (and, consequently, his disruptive editing) is related to how he feels he is being treated. Please be nice to each other. I don't think he's a bad editor; I just think he needs someone to kindly teach him what's what and to help him in his interactions with others. For starters, I'll have a talk with him. If any of you have diffs showing him or his IPs making blatant references to each other as different people, or have anything that might help me better understand what's going on, send them to me on my talk page. Thanks. SunDragon34 (talk) 05:57, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conclusions

Largely stale due to the suspected socks being IPs. Enigma ^message 21:04, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]