Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red

Woman of the day: a new one each day from our women's biographies

Anna Akbari

Anyone interested in taking a look at Draft:Anna Akbari? Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 23:46, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Allthemilescombined1: You include many references to book reviews. Why not provide more details in the body of the article, mentioning some of the reviewers and their comments?--Ipigott (talk) 09:06, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I appreciate the encouragement, and it is better for it. Does it look ready now? Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 10:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

That's certainly an improvement. In connection with Startup Your Life, I think you need to be more explicit, explaining that your comments come from the Time review. Perhaps others viewing this page also have suggestions.--Ipigott (talk) 10:29, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Done, thank you! Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 00:04, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Allthemilescombined1

Pls take a look at Manual of Style/Biography.

Cheers Hounaam (talk) 11:10, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Di Jones

Does anyone have suggestions for this page Draft:DiJones_Real_Estate It had been rejected but this project has got me inspired and I have improved a lot of the citations.PinkAechFas (talk) 05:53, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @PinkAechFas: the first thing is to establish notability. I suggest completing the cite web website parameters and the cite news work parameters to make it easier to see which sources are independent. The founder Di Jones could be notable even if the DiJones business is not. TSventon (talk) 17:03, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Real estate companies aren't notable. scope_creep^Talk 09:11, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

WiR now has a page on the Esperanto Wikipedia. How do I set up Listeriabot?

During the last days I created a Esperanto version of Women in Red: eo:Projekto:Virinoj_en_ruĝo. For now we are focusing on female Esperantists with a list similar to this English list: Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Esperantists

I created the table using a Wikidata Query, but I would love to set up a automatic system with Listeriabot like most languages do. Is there some documentation on that? I haven't found anything and I couldn't set it up myself. Stefangrotz (talk) 19:03, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ipigott: do you know if there is someone here who could advise on this? Tagishsimon doesn't seem to be active at the moment. TSventon (talk) 17:34, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Tools and technical support for a list of technical experts.--Ipigott (talk) 18:40, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: could you advise Stefangrotz on setting up a redlist on eo Wikipedia? TSventon (talk) 22:01, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Template:Wikidata list is the template en.wiki uses to generate the list and I see there's an equivalent on eo.wiki: eo:Ŝablono:Wikidata list. So I set up a test page to see if I can get it to work eo:Projekto:Virinoj en ruĝo/test. Gamaliel (talk) 13:33, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Looks like it works! Luckily whoever ported the template into Esperanto didn't translate it from English so I was able to just cut and paste an en.wiki version and it works there. Gamaliel (talk) 13:35, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Now I see, one does not set it up on the website of the bot but instead I have to put the wikidata query inside of the page itself.

Thanks again, I believe now I can do the rest myself. Stefangrotz (talk) 13:38, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Referring to siblings with same last name in article?

I just started on Draft:Mary Kirby and she worked very closely with her sister Elizabeth Kirby. Both were unmarried for a long time and share the same last name. Currently I am referring to Mary Kirby as "Kirby" in the article, and her sister as Elizabeth. But this feels odd since I eventually refer to Mary's husband later in life by his last name as well. What's the general recommendation for this? Is Elizabeth okay or should I use something like "E. Kirby"?? I swear I've seen something about it in an essay before but I couldn't find it. Thanks! Cyanochic (talk) 20:38, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Update: Just found Elizabeth and Mary Kirby. I somehow didn't find this when doing an initial search for existing pages. So I will not be fully creating this article unless others think it's notable to make it separate. However, it's not linked in Mary Kirby's wikidata. I'm not sure if it should be though. Cyanochic (talk) 21:05, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi Cyanochic, the answer to your first question is that first names should be used where needed to avoid confusion. The place to look is in Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography and the shortcut is MOS:SAMESURNAME. For some reason only the redirect Elizabeth Kirby was linked to its Wikidata item so I did the same for Mary Kirby (writer). TSventon (talk) 23:39, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

In many cases, it is useful to provide further clarifications to avoid confusion, such as her sister plus full name, her mother plus full name, etc. I personally find switching between a woman's maiden name (e.g. in the Early life section) to various married names later in the biography is pretty confusing. Indeed, in longer biographies I often have to re-read the article carefully to make sure the different names refer to the same person. I have noticed that less experienced editors use the name in the article title throughout. This certainly avoids confusion but is it acceptable? As far as I can see, there is no clear recommendation on this in Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography.--Ipigott (talk) 07:20, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Some missing National Academy of Sciences members

Cyanochic has been collecting redlinks of National Academy of Sciences members: see User:Cyanochic/NAS Scientists, as linked from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography/Science and academia § Work-in-progress list of National Academy of Sciences scientist red links. Most are men but there are some missing women including:

• geneticists Kerry Bloom and Ulrike Heberlein
• environmental scientist Kathleen Segerson
• soil scientists Barbara Valent and Elizabeth Vierling
• animal/nutritional/microbial scientists Diane O'Brien and Yasuko Rikihisa
• sociologist Florencia Torche
• psychologist Marianne Frankenhaeuser
• anthropologists Patricia Crown and Linda Manzanilla
• microbiologist Carol A. Carter

—David Eppstein (talk) 05:28, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Noting Linda Manzanilla has an es-wiki entry. Innisfree987 (talk) 05:41, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @David Eppstein! With @Innisfree987's comment, I'll add that I've been adding names to my list using the Ill template after already doing a few subfields and I haven't gone back to update the earlier names yet. In general, I'm trying to note if there are any existing Wiki sources in the list to help anyone that comes along. Cyanochic (talk) 07:44, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

For Draft:Carol A. Carter, I'm wondering if I can use images from this article? [1] Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 23:44, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

That was the copyright statement. Here is the article [2] Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 02:04, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

I think at least it can be uploaded to Commons and used on a Wikipedia article based on this page of common copyright licenses and the statement you linked. Cyanochic (talk) 03:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I will put this information on the Talk page. Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 10:20, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

I moved to mainspace and took a crack at categories. Please lmk if I didn't do the categories or sorting properly. Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 10:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

• Tut, tut! The UK equivalent, at List of female fellows of the Royal Society has been complete and up to date since at least 2013. Johnbod (talk) 01:52, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
• I was going to add my PhD adviser to that list, but now I see Cyanochic has made her page, yay! JoelleJay (talk) 16:32, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

I'd like to make Kerry Bloom a woman, but I don't think I can :) Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 21:17, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Unreferenced articles - Backlog drive - November

I saw this banner for November's unreference article backlog drive & wondered if there was a way to see a list for women who were unreferenced? Lajmmoore (talk) 09:13, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Wikiproject clean up lists could be a start, e.g.

• Women's History
• Women writers TSventon (talk) 10:31, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, @Lajmmoore and TSventon; I think this is a good idea. See here where I've suggested adding it to our November invite as there may be some editors who receive (or see) our invite and would be willing to work on this task rather than or in addition to creating new articles. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:18, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree that we should encourage WiR participants to spend at least part of their time on adding missing sources. I'll try to work on this too but I don't know how much time I will have available as I find it increasingly important to assist new or inexperienced contributors. Nevertheless, my own feeling is that we should give priority to fairly recent articles in the Women and Women's History projects which are rated Start or higher. Most of these originally had valid sources which have since become dead links. In some cases identical or similar sources can found under a new URL. Many of the stubs have never been correctly sourced and may not be worth the time and effort.--Ipigott (talk) 15:30, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Support "AllAfrica" as a suggested new resource for the Wikipedia Library Platform

Did you know you can directly suggest resources/partnerships for the Wikipedia Library and also "upvote" other people's suggestions? I was going to submit "AllAfrica.com Premium" as a suggested resource for African news (I've used the free version of the site to help source several biographies of African women), but it turns out that someone else has already suggested AllAfrica. It's low down on the ranked list of suggestions right now (only 32 votes), but if it receives more votes then it may get more attention from Library administrators as a serious suggestion. You can find it on this page -- just scroll down and filter through the resource suggestions. Alanna the Brave (talk) 20:55, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Female blacksmiths

I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be any list in the wikiproject spaces listing women blacksmiths without an article. Maybe someone can help by creating such a list through Wikidata elements.--Peridotito (talk) 09:33, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@Peridotito: Done! Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Blacksmiths Gamaliel (talk) 13:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Rebecca Burch

Rebecca Burch would be fun to profile[3], but I'm not sure if there's enough media. She's quoted here. [4] Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 01:57, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Noblewoman

The Noblewoman article is in very poor condition and really needs expanded. It shouldn't be too difficult to do it, what with other wikipedias work available. Its a particular aspect of a segment of civil society that doesn't get much of a look in, yet is a comparatively large and important part of that society, both in the present and from a historical perspective. I would do it myself but have other fish to fry and have so many other articles of my todo list, that I've stopped adding to it at the moment. It really needs a proper with lots of excellent images that would suit it. scope_creep^Talk 09:12, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up, scope creep, but it seems to me we need to delve into histories covering elite and noble women in Europe and Asia. The current article is based on the French version. There also seems to be extensive coverage of noble women in Spain. Perhaps those documenting nobility in Russia. the Middle East and China could also contribute. I'm not too sure it "shouldn't be too difficult" as a meaningful world history seems to be sadly lacking. Any concrete suggestions?--Ipigott (talk) 17:16, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Ipigott: How goes it? Unfortunately no. It does have a quite a large scope certainly, but the reason I said it should too difficult is because there is a mountain of sources on it. The good thing about the aristocracy as a group is that they tended to document their own existance quite well, at every level of their society in every country they existed in. Before World War I, they were dominant as a group in Europe. I reckon there is a probably six months to years work in it, easily but the sources are readily available. It just needs somebody that is capable of writing large complex articles that can take it GA/FA and get it done. Theyre is several article that can be spun out of it, e.g. how fashion changed, social mores. Loads probably. scope_creep^Talk 18:38, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your response, scope creep- I think that rather than basing development on the aristocracy's own records, what we need are links to neutral contributions by historians or researchers. If you don't have time to work on the article yourself, I suggest you list some of your reliable sources on the article's talk page. That may encourage future work. In any case, I hope that in due course you will find time to work on the article yourself.--Ipigott (talk) 11:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

The tendency among recent historians, especially when talking about women, has been very much to use "the aristocracy's own records", in the form of letters and diaries. A global article could be taking on too much - as the mess at gentry shows. Johnbod (talk) 13:30, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Yea, I suspected that. I suspect there will be a lot of that. I've not done any work on it at all. You would use academic sources if you could, if they are available. Unless somebody else knows better, there must historians of that group surely, who will probably be part of the group right enough, since they are quite secretive and closed to preserve their own power, money and prestige. The group that nobleman and noblewomen belong to are known as society, which is the most power group on earth, certainly in the west. Its called other things in other places, but certainly society in the uk. They are the moneyed elite. To get an idea of how they work, which I only found recently, take a look at Napoleon. He is attacking Russia. He is part of society. While he is attacking Russia, he decides to visit the czar who welcomes him, who are all part of society. All equals. So it shows the society transends normal normal civilisation, existance. That elite group don't act for man in the street. It may be difficult to write it but needs to be done. scope_creep^Talk 16:32, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Frankly, that's a strange way to look at the peace negotiations leading to the Treaties of Tilsit in 1807. Johnbod (talk) 06:50, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Betty Fiechter

There's an ongoing draft about Swiss businesswoman Betty Fiechter here. There is a bit of English-language coverage but I can't find enough for WP:GNG - It looks like there is a good bit of foreign-language coverage, especially in French. Any help uncovering those sources would be much appreciated! ThadeusOfNazereth(he/him)^{Talk to Me!} 19:06, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

To start with, these two pieces ([5], [6]) from the Daily Telegraph should be helpful. Silverseren^C 19:55, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, these are advertisements for the Ladybird line of watches and not actual journalism. ThadeusOfNazereth(he/him)^{Talk to Me!} 20:02, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

@ThadeusOfNazereth: have you looked at the references for the French article. The most promising link is

• BEATRIZ ROLDÁN (2022-08-15). "Betty Fiechter, la primera mujer en la cumbre de la relojería suiza". El Mundo (in Spanish). Retrieved 2023-12-11. (headed Lifestyle)
• "Des femmes d'exception : Betty Fiechter (4/5)". Radio Jura bernois (in French). 2022-07-25. Retrieved 2022-11-14. audio in French with text summary, seems to be an interview with a former employee
• I checked tellerreport.com on archive.org and it looked like a translation of El Mundo

TSventon (talk) 21:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for those - I was able to use both of them in the article. Right now it's in a very borderline state where I think she meets WP:GNG but I sort of doubt AFD would agree. ThadeusOfNazereth(he/him)^{Talk to Me!} 17:20, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Any luck with searching her full name Berthe-Marie Fiechter? Thriley (talk) 22:57, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

I tried searching a Swiss newspaper archive for Betty Fiechter and got this. Sixteen results, one in 1996 about her monument at Villeret, one in 2021 about an exhibition of 5 statues, also less useful stuff like a burglary and a car accident. Nothing for Berthe-Marie Fiechter. TSventon (talk) 23:36, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Not really. There is a very detailed profile here but it's a primary source so I hadn't incorporated it yet. Some mild coverage from the Swiss government here and a couple mentions in lifestyle magazines that don't meet WP:RS. The newspaper coverage above appears decent but I'll have to do some translation. I appreciate all the helpfulness! ThadeusOfNazereth(he/him)^{Talk to Me!} 23:40, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Her NY Times obituary, while run under the paper’s “Overlooked No More” series, seems to demonstrate her notability in my opinion. I’ve never seen an article deleted for someone with an obit in The Times. Thriley (talk) 00:01, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Article is now live in mainspace :) ThadeusOfNazereth(he/him)^{Talk to Me!} 04:12, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Women in Red November 2024

Women in Red | November 2024, Vol 10, Issue 11, Nos 293, 294, 321, 322, 323 Online events: New: Asian women | Geofocus: Islands Q-Z | Women in engineering Continuing: #1day1woman | Education (year-long initiative) Announcements from other communities Annual Wikipedia Asian Month (WAM) is an online campaign designed to boost Asian content on Wikipedia each November. Unreferenced articles backlog drive. These Wikiproject clean-up lists offer a start to November's backlog drive, e.g. Women's History and Women writers Tip of the month: Looking for an image? Sometimes you can find openly licensed images at search.creativecommons.org/ Other ways to participate: Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Join the conversations on our talkpage. Help us plan future events and add any general ideas on developing the project. Follow us on social media: Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter/X

--Lajmmoore (talk 20:44, 29 October 2024 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Pictures on editathon page

Traditionally there was a picture of a woman in the infobox of the event page, from within the topic of the event. I've noticed that these have been missing in recent months. Please can someone review my additions to 321, 322 and 323 for next month? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:56, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks MSGJ, They look good! Because the template generates a page with a WiR logo as a place holder, the photos sometimes get away from us. Please feel free to nudge or add. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 23:09, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

I couldn't work out how to change the image - is there an explainer somewhere? Lajmmoore (talk) 22:34, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Lajmmoore: the event page template is {{WIR meetup header}} and the template documentation at the bottom of the page explains how to add an image and a caption, but perhaps it should be explained somewhere else as well. TSventon (talk) 12:01, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Urdu translation Fakhra Younas / Fakhra Younus

Question for the hive mind: Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by nationality/Pakistan lists Fakhra Younas as a red link. English wikipedia has an article for Fakhra Younus. I don't read Urdu. Does anyone know if this is the same person? Fakhra Younas (Q3738509) I think so, but don't want to create a redirect if I am wrong. There's also an article in Italian. Thanks in advance for any advice. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 23:17, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

@WomenArtistUpdates: The en article and the it article via Google translate are obviously about the same woman, so I have merged the Wikipedia items. It is possible that Italian and English romanise Urdu slightly differently. TSventon (talk) 00:01, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for the merge TSventon, I agree that the romaization was slightly different. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 00:13, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Anyone into domestic violence shelters?

Hi folks -- Not strictly remit, but I just declined a G11 on Marjaree Mason Center (in Fresno, California) and the tagger gutted the article. There seems to be a lot of coverage on Ebsco/PQ but little I can quickly see that's obviously substantive/reliable to rebuild an article. This is not an area I work in, can anyone help out? Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 01:16, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Working on finding sources, give me a sec. Silverseren^C 02:10, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Here's what I found.

• A Matter Of Survival by Kerri Ginis (Page 2) (Page 3)
• Marjaree Mason Center opens shelter inside Reedley's historic Olson House
• 'The right time to let it fly' by Carmen George (Page 2)
• Domestic violence calls in Fresno increase amid pandemic; shelters open by Carmen George
• Turning abuse into a healthy lease on life by Angel Kuo and Genelle Taylor Kumpe
• Assisting battered women by George Hostetter
• County approves Marjaree Mason Center's Batterers Program
• Marjaree Mason Center starts Selma group by Deborah Sanchez (Page 2)

I hope that's enough for now. Silverseren^C 02:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Silver seren! Is there anything out of the local area? It seems that even non-profits now need to show national-level coverage to survive; I admit I was quite surprised at how strict WP:NONPROFIT is on this now. Espresso Addict (talk) 03:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Construction begins on new Marjaree Mason Center facility in northwest Fresno
• Recent domestic violence incidents shine light on Marjaree Mason Center expansion
• Marjaree Mason Center avoids funding losses
• Marjaree Mason Center highlights domestic violence awareness
• Marjaree Mason Center’s new home hosts a groundbreaking
• The consequences of huge federal cuts to domestic violence funding “may be death”

Hopefully some of these help, Espresso Addict. Silverseren^C 03:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

And this. Silverseren^C 03:29, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• I've had a bit of a go at the article (Marjaree Mason Center), it's fragmentary but at least it's all sourced thanks to the heroic efforts of Silver seren! What do folk think of the notability? I hesitate to leave the enormous delete-me tag at the top but it's not an area in which I work so I don't feel comfortable removing it. Espresso Addict (talk) 11:24, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Sabeeha Rehman

I'd appreciate feedback on Draft:Sabeeha Rehman. Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 16:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Affiliation Committee

Hello folks, I've put myself forward for the Affiliation Committee (!) - supporting new affiliate organisations. If you think I would make useful contributions there, please add a note on the meta talk page. Nominations are open for a few more days, it's a really interesting and strong field of candidates and there might be others you'd want to support too Lajmmoore (talk) 22:33, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Ecofeminism/gender studies - Draft:Mary Mellor

Hello folks, I've been pluggin away at an article for Draft:Mary Mellor for a while, and I wondered if anyone more familia than me with ecofeminism might be able to help out. Her books are widely reviewed and she was a professor with a named chair, so meets notability, but much more is written about her books than her. I've been finding and using reviews of her books to expand the draft, but because I am really unfamiliar with ecofeminism it's taking me ages. If anyone else has more context than me I'd be so appreciative of some help (cross-posted at WP:Climate change) Lajmmoore (talk) 12:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

You're right that there isn't very much out there that's not book review related. Here's what I could pull up.

• Sex discrimination fight: Boffins in test case
• Female revolution is hard to swallow
• Author is off to Japan

I hope that gives at least a few things to add to the article, Lajmmoore. Silverseren^C 16:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Although it is not recent and is in connection with one of her publications, there seems to be quite a lot about her here. Hope this helps.--Ipigott (talk) 17:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC) This interview might provide a few clues.--Ipigott (talk) 18:37, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• There is an "about the author" in German for Argument-Sonderbände - Volume 216 1994 on Google Books snippet view, beginning Mary Mellor wurde 1946 in Cornwall geboren and ending Mary Mellor lebt mit ihrem Partner und zwei Kindern in Newcastle [Google translation: Mary Mellor was born in Cornwall in 1946 ... Mary Mellor lives with her partner and two children in Newcastle]. TSventon (talk) 17:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Also North East History cites her Newcastle University [PhD?] thesis. TSventon (talk) 03:36, 10 November 2024 (UTC)