User talk:Qehath/Archive 2015-6

Category:Hebrew masculine nouns with plurals ending in ־ות

Thanks! I've added some more that I've thought of.

It seems like disproportionately many nouns of the form /CVˈCoC/, especially /maˈCoC/, are masculine but with plurals in /-ot/. I don't know why this is.

—Ruakh_TALK 01:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

I dunno... I'm happy letting the reason be "because they sound nice" lol... שבוע טוב, רן. — [Ric Laurent] — 01:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

@Ruakh It seems there is a similar thing in Arabic. Many Arabic nouns ending in -CāC (a lot of which are verbal nouns) are masculine but take the feminine sound plural -āt. Like مَكَان (makān) -> مَكَانَات (makānāt), قَرَار (qarār) -> قَرَارَات (qarārāt), إِضْرَاب (ʔiḍrāb) -> إِضْرَابَات (ʔiḍrābāt). --WikiTiki89 19:20, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Arabic uses only -āt as a sound plural for things. (With a very small number of exceptions, like sinūn "years"). The words you mentioned are therefore not exceptions, but just examples of the rule: Sound plurals of impersonal nouns (masculine or feminine) are formed in -āt. The plural -ūn is restricted to masculine nouns that denote persons. Kolmiel (talk) 21:28, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Pashto Wikitionary

Hello I am a Professor of Pashto and am a native speaker of the Yusafzai dialect. I just wanted to thank you for your help with Pashto.

		The Linguistic Barnstar
		Thank you for all your contributions to Pashto language. With regards, Adjutor101 (talk) 09:12, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

ער קען

Are you sure that's not for "to be able to", like can and kann, rather than for "to know", like kennt? If you're right then we have to fix our conjugation table at קענען (kenen). --WikiTiki89 17:08, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

On another page (I can't remember which offhand) he makes a statement that makes it seem like the two verbs have converged. I think that's what happened, because looking in the glossary at the end, they're even listed as one verb with one conjugation. קענט might be common enough to be worth mentioning as nonstandard — [Ric Laurent] — 18:35, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Seems likely. I guess the spelling קאַן is also non-standard then. I already fixed the conjugation at קענען (kenen). --WikiTiki89 18:48, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

It looks like it changed the איר form, too, which I don't know that it does. I've never seen קאַן, though. — [Ric Laurent] — 18:54, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Fixed it again. Thanks for noticing. --WikiTiki89 19:29, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Speaking of noticing, is the imperative really used for קענען? — [Ric Laurent] — 20:23, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

It probably is for the "to know" sense. --WikiTiki89 21:03, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Do you have easy access to etymological information? I think זשע (zhe) is probably from же (že) but I don't want to declare it for sure. — [Ric Laurent] — 21:32, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't have access to any etymological resources specifically on Yiddish, however I am certain that you are right about this particular term, with the caveat that it may have come from any Slavic language. --WikiTiki89 21:41, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I thought the same thing until I looked at our entries for similar words. The last two Russian definitions compare exactly to the ones I found in my books, and no other language seems to have comparable word-meanings. — [Ric Laurent] — 21:44, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

That's probably because the other languages are missing senses in their definitions. This word is not easy to define. --WikiTiki89 21:46, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Polish że doesn't have those senses. It's from Russian or Ukrainian. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 21:50, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Oy I forgot Polish had that letter. I was sitting over here thinking, is it rzy, is it rze? אַ דאַנק, טאָליע — [Ric Laurent] — 21:52, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Wait wait, -że has the same meaning and position as זשע (zhe). — [Ric Laurent] — 22:00, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

This sense is closer but Russian же can intensify other PoS- что же - vos zhe but Polish has also -ż.--Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:35, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm almost positive the Yiddish zhe has more meanings, but each of the three major books I have defined it differently... and to the exclusion of the uses in each of the others. It was weird. — [Ric Laurent] — 22:39, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

@Atitarev It can in do that in Polish too, often in the form of -ż. See cóż, gdzież, któż, etc. --WikiTiki89 22:43, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I agree. That's what I meant by my -ż comment above but it was too brief, as I typed it on the phone. I'm OK to include to include Polish in the etymology. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:18, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Also keep in mind that we don't know when this word was borrowed and Polish -ż might not have been contracted yet from -że, meanings may have been lost or added, and languages that are separate today may not yet have split. --WikiTiki89 23:31, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

A Yiddish Transliteration Mistake?

Apparently, someone transliterated the term לייקע at the entry funnel as *lyyq, so I replaced lyyq with leyke. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 08:39, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

leyke is correct; thanks. — [Ric Laurent] —

נישטאָ פֿאַרוואָס --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 08:55, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Now I wonder about the plural form of ברוסט. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 10:35, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

The dictionary hosted by the University of Kentucky lists ברוסטן and בריסטן but the Yiddish Wikipedia article uses the plural בריסט exclusively. בריסט is also the only plural listed in Vaynraykh's lovely dictionary, so I think I'm going to rearrange our entry a touch. — [Ric Laurent] — 19:54, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

francez

Do you know if Romanian has any derogatory terms for a Frenchperson? --Romanophile (talk) 03:03, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Probably. — [Ric Laurent] — 04:49, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

‘Probably?’ That’s cute. Are you just being brief because there’s still ‘bad blood’ between us? I don’t get it. --Romanophile (talk) 05:30, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Ugh.

I suppose I didn't answer your question, for which I am slightly sorry. I mostly ignored the "Do you know" — the answer to which would be "No" — because I figured "Probably" wouldn't rob you of your hopefulness to enrich the world with racist language. I don't share your apparent interest in bigotry, so my answer was unenthusiastic.

Neither did I formerly share your perception of bad blood; when I saw your name on here I felt nothing because I don't keep an obsessive mental log of people I've had little passing disagreements with.... But now I'm probably going to remember you as that douche who is keen on slurs and gets pissy when you don't use enough words in response to unseemly questions.

Satisfacut, prietenule? — [Ric Laurent] — 06:30, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

This is the worst thing that I’ve seen all day. I figured that you already knew some terms because you made entries like this and this. I guess that you’ve changed significantly since then? I’m not sure. I thought that we were on good terms, but it’s clear that I’ve unwisely touched a nerve again, so I’ll just piss off. Have a wonderful day. --Romanophile (talk) 08:15, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Insults based on actions versus insults based on race?

We're not on terms. People have to speak to be on terms. I said one word and you assumed some kind of negativity that didn't exist. Perhaps you remember that time you apologized to me for something and I told you clearly that I didn't even know what you were talking about, making this all the more confusing and irritating. I can be perfectly reasonable when nobody's insinuating I'm harboring a moronic grudge. — [Ric Laurent] — 09:01, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

adl and fayn

I came across the word אַדל at the Polish Wiktionary along with its related term אַדלדיק, and thought that it has the same ancestor word as German edel (the proto-Germanic word is *aþalaz, which is an adjective so I might be mistaken). Also, how about a Yiddish translation to be checked at fine (which is פֿײַן)? (Also don't forget פּײַן if you want.) --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 07:13, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

P.S. Now that I did some refreshing of my memory, the REAL source is *aþalą. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 07:16, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

The only place I've ever heard fayn that I know of is in the phrase "a fayner man" so I'm not knowledgeable enough for transchecks. Similarly on payn, the Yiddish vocabulary related to pain and woe is too subtle and rich for me to handle well. I would say well it looks like the English word "pain" so I'll just leave it at that, but I'm still not rushing to tackle that subject. — [Ric Laurent] — 10:07, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

About adldik -- the dictionary hosted by University of Kentucky says the adjectival form is -ik rather than -dik, but yiddishdictionaryonline and Vaynraykh both say -dik. Google Books is only marginally helpful because there are words spelled אדליק in both Hebrew and Aramaic, but there are definitely some hits in Yiddish. So while that spelling gets plenty of hits, אדלדיק[ע\ער\ן] all get under 10 each and אדלדיקס gets none. So I don't feel like adding that one myself. — [Ric Laurent] — 10:23, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

There is also the surname פֿײַנשטיין (faynshteyn). --WikiTiki89 15:23, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Well, I do like adding surnames... By the way, Wiki, I've been meaning to ask you. Why do we just use "inflected form of" for Yiddish adjectives? — [Ric Laurent] — 15:35, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Probably because listing out every case and gender combination for שטומע (shtume) would not be very useful. --WikiTiki89 15:50, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

I think it would be more useful than what we've got. "Inflected form" is only really useful to somebody who knows what inflection is, etc etc. It's not like German where would be five dozen each, and it would be really easy to do with the accelerated things. Still, I'd be happy to shrug at it if nobody agrees — [Ric Laurent] — 16:00, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Ah speaking of acceleration, how would you feel about doing the conjugation templates? — [Ric Laurent] — 16:05, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

I started doing them a year ago, but got bored. I plan to resume soon, though. --WikiTiki89 16:42, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Hah, all right. Cool. I've been having fun with your papirosn page. — [Ric Laurent] — 17:32, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

I noticed. --WikiTiki89 18:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

If you'd prefer I stop — [Ric Laurent] — 18:14, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

If that came out wrong, what I meant was your work is being noticed and appreciated. --WikiTiki89 18:18, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

lol ok — [Ric Laurent] — 18:22, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Yud

I understand the difference and if you noticed that yud was transcribed with e which is wrong. מלכים. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 13:12, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

I noticed the transcription, but it is not objectively "wrong." The word is pronounced [məɫɔχəm] so we write melokhem. Yiddish words borrowed from Hebrew are pronounced differently from the way they are written. — קהת — 13:16, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Some dictionaries do transcribe this as -im, but we have chosen, for consistency with words like שלום (sholem) (which would otherwise be transcribed very strangely as sholoym) to transcribe the Hebrew-derived ־ים plural closer to the pronunciation as -em. --WikiTiki89 20:39, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Why did you revert?

Hi!

Why did you revert my two edits to the article חסד?

Nashuntu (talk) 13:10, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Primarily because the transliterations you changed and added were totally full of errors (seriously, mitsawotayw???). Please learn WT:AHE. Also, please don't use the shem kadosh in biblical quotes. — Z. [ קהת ] b"A. — 13:43, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Just before I saw your response I was going to say that after reading Enoshd's talk page I figured it was because I didn't use the Wiktionary standard transliteration scheme. I found the previous transliteration not fitting, since it was read as Modern Hebrew even though the quote is in Biblical Hebrew. But "totally full of errors"? I am a bit shaky about the finer point about when schwa is vocal or silent, and such, but I don't think the number of errors could have been that high. As for "mitsawotayw", maybe it should have been "mitswotayw". As for the "ayw" ending, that is to reflect the spelling, not the pronunciation. I think I will from now on not add transliterations, since I am not knowledgeable about Modern Hebrew.

As for not using יהוה in biblical quotes, is that an official policy? Where can I read about it in that case? Nashuntu (talk) 14:21, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

People who speak modern Hebrew often use modern pronunciation when reading the bible. We sometimes have transliterations that reflect old pronunciation, but in addition to the modern transliteration, not instead of it.

Whether it's vocal or silent, shva is never pronounced "a."

It's not official policy, it's just good cultural etiquette. — Z. [ קהת ] b"A. — 14:27, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

I tend to use it in quotations, because this is an electronic dictionary and anyone who wants to be careful about not defacing G-d's name will be careful enough to check whether it's used before printing something out. But I transliterate it with just the consonants (see הראה) because the vowels are not written in the text anyway. --WikiTiki89 14:38, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

משיח

Hey there! Wondering why you reverted my edits to this page. --Aperiarcam (talk) 18:59, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Because the Christ and the Messiah are two different things and I'm too lazy to clean up after people. Rollback is 1-click cleanup; love it. — Z. [ קהת ] b"A. — 21:00, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

How so? "Christ" is the Greek translation for "Messiah"; the LXX uses Χριστός to translate משיח a few hundred years before Jesus shows up. --Aperiarcam (talk) 21:15, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

In modern language, the concept of משיח is not the same as the concept of the Christ. Χριστός has always been the Greek translation of משיח because the words literally mean the same thing, but the concept of "Christ" as used in English is not what משיח means. — Z. [ קהת ] b"A. — 22:12, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

soare cu dinți

How do you say soare cu dinți in Spanish? --Romanophile (talk) 01:23, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Habar n-am, scuza. — Z. [ קהת ] b"A. — 11:30, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Example Sentence as a Gift

Not to be vulgar, but I could provide the following example sentence: "May I rub your phallus against my cheeks? - line break - (Any response you want, even of disgust)." (Gosh, I feel so embarrassed.) --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 11:13, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

You know vulgarity doesn't bother me. — Z. [ קהת ] b"A. — 12:05, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

To be honest, I got the idea from Tomonews. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 12:21, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Oh, Christian teens.

Why couldn't anything like that have happened to me when I was in high school? ...Or now. — Z. [ קהת ] b"A. — 12:26, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Hebrew for Spanish-speakers on-line?

Hello, Dick Laurent, I hope you are doing fine. Dude, do you know whether there is a Hebrew course for Spanish-speakers on-line? Thanks in advance for your kind answer. Gerardo Noriega (talk) 07:05, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

@Gerardo Noriega: Dick Laurent has not been active recently. I find this website from a quick Google search for "cursos de hebreo gratis por internet" (which was the first search suggestion when I started typing "cursos de hebreo") I don't know if it's good or not. You can try Googling around yourself. I guarantee you, there is plenty of demand for Hebrew learning material for Spanish speakers. Spanish is probably the 3rd or 4th most common native language for immigrants to Israel. --WikiTiki89 19:16, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

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