Talk:Joseph Pilates

Birthplace

The German and the English Version of the article about Joseph Hubert Pilates seem to mention different birth places.

They don't do so anymore! --130.149.174.22 15:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Tamara di Tella

I removed a link to Tamara di Tella's Pilates website, as I figured that the links to his pupils' websites were sufficient. --Slashme (talk) 08:49, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, you have a good point with which I am agree with. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 08:54, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

A Disproven Nationality/Ethnicity Rumor claimed as Factual by Wikipedia

This Wikipedia article on Joseph Pilates claims for a long time, that his father was of "Greek Ethnicity". with this attached reference. Actually the reference shows just the opposite, it states that the talk about "having been Greek and having changed the name" are not backed up by living relatives. The same reference even shows birth certificate, which gives Pilates' father's actual name as Heinrich Friedrich Pilates, occupation Schlosser (mechanic), a citizen of Prussia, also born in M. Gladbach, both parents Catholic. Checking birth records of previous Pilates family in M.Gladbach one finds Gertrudis Pilates born 1668, Conradus Pilates born 1676 and many dozens of other Pilates persons throughout the centuries in the same area and elsewhere in Germany (71.197.119.17 (talk) 22:13, 9 July 2013 (UTC))

He was Greek, here is the official website of Pilates http://www.josephpilates.com/joomla/history-of-joseph-pilatesa-little-about-the-man-behind-it-all.html In 1880 near Dusseldorf Germany, Joseph Pilates was born to a prize-winning gymnast father and a mother who subscribed to naturopath forms of healing. His unusual name is actually derived from his Greek heritage and would have been spelled “Pilatos.”

Was also backed by his relatives and about the pronunciation of the name, from the same website: "Nearly all publications phonetically spell it (Pi-LAH-teez), however, according to Joseph’s niece, Mary Pilates LaRiche, she recalls it as pronounced (Pi-LOTTS)." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.231.54.57 (talk) 04:48, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

I believe the first reference here (going back as far as the 17th century) is more reliable. The name does not sound uncommon or foreign for the Rhine-Ruhr area. Many surnames it this region end on an "-s" or "-es" (e.g. Stinnes, Goebbels). On the other hand, "Pilatos" (i.e. Pilate) is a rather uncommon (though existing) surname in Greece. I think the reference to a Greek ancestry is wrong and not sufficiently proven.

Article reads like a brochure

This article reads like it came straight out of a brochure from a Pilates studio. Are we sure this is original writing? And almost nothing is sourced, and what is seems to come from Pilates' own book.

Why the Greek pronunciation guide?

I gather from a comment below that at one point the article was claiming that he was of Greek descent. Since this information no longer seems to be a part of the article, the Greek form of his name is totally irrelevant and looks ridiculous. I hope someone removes it, or I will. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.142.116.106 (talk) 21:23, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

His is a Greek half Greek and his name is Greek, his father was Greek. This is from the official website of Pilates http://www.josephpilates.com/joomla/history-of-joseph-pilatesa-little-about-the-man-behind-it-all.html

In 1880 near Dusseldorf Germany, Joseph Pilates was born to a prize-winning gymnast father and a mother who subscribed to naturopath forms of healing. His unusual name is actually derived from his Greek heritage and would have been spelled “Pilatos.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.231.54.57 (talk) 04:46, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

I believe that this is nonsense (see my comment above). It is not proven and the name rather more German than Greek (even "Pilatos" is very rare in Greece). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gothograecus2 (talk • contribs) 20:26, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

so the book - the article need a fixing.

In 1923 Pilates was invited to train the New German Army but because he was not happy with the political direction of Germany he decided to leave. The urgings of his American based relatives - his uncle (an influential catholic priest), his brother Frederick, and his sister Helen, would have played a part in his decision to move. Nachum (talk) 14:01, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

so wrrote someone in amazon.de

Nimmt man die Popularität der Pilates Methode als Grundlage, so war man verwundert, dass über den Begründer der Methode so wenig sicher Information verfügbar war. In der Pilates Literatur sowie auf den verschiedenen Internetseiten von Pilates Studios ließen sich fast immer die gleichen Textbausteine finden und manches davon wirkte fragwürdig und einfach abgeschrieben. Nachum (talk) 12:54, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Joseph Pilates/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

The refrence to Pilates being a "National Socialist" needs to be cited

Last edited at 01:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 20:33, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Josephs Vater war preußischer Staatsangehöriger; beide Eltern waren katholisch

!

His Greek father

from my research there is no evidence that his father has something with Greece. if anyone has fact about it let me know. please. Nachum (talk) 08:05, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

His father was Greek thats correct here is from his official site : http://www.josephpilates.com/joomla/history-of-joseph-pilatesa-little-about-the-man-behind-it-all.html "In 1880 near Dusseldorf Germany, Joseph Pilates was born to a prize-winning gymnast father and a mother who subscribed to naturopath forms of healing. His unusual name is actually derived from his Greek heritage and would have been spelled “Pilatos.”

Please put this information in to wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.231.54.57 (talk) 04:44, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Being of a certain heritage does not mean that your father was born in that place. The British King is of Hanoverian heritage; his father was not from Hannover. --82.40.80.166 (talk) 13:08, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Claims of Greek origin

As claims of Greek origin get added again and again, it may be a good idea to quote a discussion from the talkpage of the corresponding German article. In summary, his parents were Prussian nationals, his father had the very German given names "Heinrich Friedrich", and other people with variations of the surname Pilat/Pilatus/Pilates are known to have been widespread in the same area since at least the middle of the 18th century.

Is it possible that JP at some point claimed to be Greek, maybe to cultivate a mental connection to athletes of antiquity or to disassociate himself from his German background during either of the World Wars? Whatever the case may be, there seems to be no evidence for Greek origins. --Hegvald (talk) 07:15, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Herkunft und Nationalität Wie bitte soll Joseph Hubertus Pilates ein deutscher sein, wenn seine beiden Eltern Griechen waren? Ich habe auch einen deutschen Pass- trotzdem sehe ich mich nicht als Deutsche, sondern als Puertorikanerin mit deutschem Pass, weil meine beiden Eltern Puertorikaner sind. Sogar in den USA sind wir Puertorikaner mit amerikanischem Pass. Das ist nicht korrekt. Das wäre ja die Herkunft leugnen!!!Ich glaube nicht (erst recht nicht, wegen der NAZI- Zeit), dass er es gewollt hätte, dass man ihn einen "Deutschen" nennt! Außerdem war er am Ende auch noch ein Amerikaner! Ein Amerikaner mit griechischer Herkunft- und nicht mit deutscher Herkunft!Wann liest man denn, dass ein Türke mit deutschem Pass ein Deutscher sei? Man liest immer wieder in den Zeitungen: "Ein Türke mit deutschem Pass" oder ein "Syrer mit deutschem Pass" usw. oder etwa nicht? (nicht signierter Beitrag von 213.101.232.110 (Diskussion | Beiträge) 17:16, 10. Feb. 2006 (CET)) Na, das ist aber eine sehr völkische Betrachtungsweise, die Nazis wären damit zufrieden. Man kann also nur Deutscher sein, wenn man zur deutschen Rasse gehört, als Volksdeutscher von Ariern abstammt. (nicht signierter Beitrag von 86.132.43.189 (Diskussion | Beiträge) 01:04, 3. Sep. 2006 (CEST)) Ist hier schon mal jemandem aufgefallen, dass der Joseph Pilates im Englischen wikipedia-Eintrag in Düsseldorf geborgen ist und nicht in Mönchengladbach? Habe nicht die Mittel das im Moment zu recherchieren, daher belasse ich es bei einem Kommentar. (nicht signierter Beitrag von 149.169.91.109 (Diskussion | Beiträge) 05:28, 29. Nov. 2006 (CET)) An den griechischen Eltern habe ich größte Zweifel. Der Name Pilates ist in den Schreibweisen Pilat - Pilatus - Pilates im Raum Krefeld -MG schon um 1750 verbreitet. Das scheint mir eine seiner Spinnereien gewesen zu sein. --Eynre 22:27, 24. Jun. 2007 (CEST) Wenn die Eltern "griechisch" waren, dann wußten sie es selber nicht mehr ;-). Melde mich wenn ich 'ne gute Quelle hab' , Grüße --Sei Shonagon 12:26, 12. Sep. 2010 (CEST) Ist schon putzig!? Es wird sich auf die engl. WP bezogen für "Vater Grieche" und "Mutter Heilpraktikerin"... in der dort verwendeten "Quelle" steht aber: "The story that the family name Pilates is "of Greek origin" is not confirmed by family members alive today. They state that he was thoroughly German, and that the family was devout catholic. His mother, it is stated, "was a naturopath". Family members state that this is not strictly true, that it was more likely that as a resourceful and caring mother of nine, she studied and applied the naturopathic skills as best she could. So... The reality was that she helped out in the family gym." *sei staunt und ändert*,--Sei Shonagon 13:33, 12. Sep. 2010 (CEST) Auf der Geburtsurkunde steht der Vater als Heinrich Friedrich Pilates M.Gladbach , Staatsangehörigkeit: Preußen, Vater und Mutter Religion: beide katholisch. Wikipedia sagt griechischstämmig ??? welcher Beweis??? MfG (71.197.119.17 21:48, 9. Jul. 2013 (CEST)) Habe Wikipedia Unsinn, daß Vater "griechischstäammig" war, entfernt. Seit 3 Jahren wird nach Referenz zu griechisch gefragt - ES GIBT KEINE - Familie Pilates ist seit mehreren Jahrhunderten im Ort nachgewiesen (71.197.119.17 18:29, 25. Jul. 2013 (CEST))

Another dance connection, plus a tidbit (trivia? apocrypha?)

I'm not an editor. I have no desire to be one. Just putting this out there for any editor who might want to decide whether it's worth including, and find sources for it.

The German, then American, modern dance choreographer Hanya Holm [sorry, don't know whether or how to link to her article] asked Pilates to create a warmup for her dance company. That warmup subsequently became the warmup for the companies of her associates Alwin Nikolais and Murray Louis [again: links?]. The warmup is similar, but not identical, to the Pilates floor work (mat work).

(This is personal knowledge from having been a dancer in the Nikolais company and having taken Holm's classes there. But it's also documented in, for example, the book Dancing with Principle: Hanya Holm in Colorado, by Claudia Gitelman. I think this information about the Pilates/Holm connection is definitely worth including, because the article mentions George Balanchine and Martha Graham, but all they did was send students to him; Holm had an actual "collaboration", since he created a warmup for her.)

The tidbit: When Pilates was developing his technique during World War I for the "rehabilitation of seriously injured veterans", he used whatever materials he could find for his machines, including the springs from old hospital beds.

(This is from a friend who is a Pilates teacher, and even she says that it is "through the grapevine". But, who knows, it might be true and it might be documented.)

Dudley Brooks (talk) 23:48, 3 November 2021 (UTC)