Talk:Meitei people

Origin of Meetei

This is a record from the Wakoklon Heelel Thilen Salai Amailon Pukok Puya protect the content after due verfication but the script is written in Meetei MayekVenmtlucha (talk) 06:40, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Untitled

The article is insufficiently footnoted, and contains sweeping statements that fail to stand up to logic. Moreover, some of the footnotes direct to commercial websites of no use. DOR (HK) (talk) 05:31, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

In addition to the above there is no history section reiknir (talk) 04:19, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Language

I have no idea what this means: "This much improvement was strongly gain after the Meetei leader Mr. Chingshubam Akaba, who was murdered in connection with the development and popularity of his name in the state on the 31st midnight of December 2006 at his resident gate in Imphal." Does that mean he was an opponent of the proposed script change, and with him out of the way it's easier? Or (more likely!) does it mean he was in favor of the script change, and his death brought some kind of impetus to the change? (Also, this needs a citation for the claim that he was murdered *because* of his popularity, rather than--say--as the result of a bungled robbery.)

This is also puzzling: "People are trying to bring this script up to the international standard as it is the only lone script of NE India." It's not clear what it means for a script to be "up to the international standard"--there certainly is no international standards body that sets out guidelines on scripts (or better, on orthographies--"script" refers to things like Perso-Arabic, Devanagari, Roman etc.), and some orthographies are pretty awful (English, for instance). It's also unclear what it means to be an "only lone" script, and why that is bad (or good, I can't tell from the sentence whether it's supposed to be good or bad).

Finally, the second and third (and part of the first) paragraphs are really about the orthography, not the language per se. Mcswell (talk) 01:16, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

what Meitei people eat

Meitei people eat various meat link given below

• [1] Except for Hindu Manipuris, the Sanamahist Manipuris and Muslim Manipuris are best known across the state of Manipur, for preparing various delightful recipes of beef 🍛Curry. Many Christians do also relish the meat with delight.

However, among the Sanamahist population, vegetarians are excluded from the consumption section.

So, the answer is yes, except for Hindus

Please note that pasting an article from a public opinion site doesnot represents the entire people or caste. Meitei people are quite sensitive in their culture and are noted for not eating meat. Instead they prefer fish, snails, eels, oyesters, crabs etc which are marine products. In the state of manipur there are large part of orthodox people who still donot consume meat. Even outside manipur in assam as well in others parts of northeast they are quite sensitive. There is wrongful mention of consumption of people which misrepresents that all meitei people consume beef. Even chicken is not cooked indoor in a traditional meitei household. "https://www.britannica.com/topic/Meitei" the sanamahi culture, the apokpa culture are all very traditional. This is very wrong to say meitei people eat beefMetei91 (talk) 16:07, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Comment

In Manipur, When we say, "Meitei" or "Meetei", we could be in general be referring to the Manipuris who live in the valley or specificaly, we could be referring to those Manipuris who are of the Sanamahi religion. In Manipur it is generally accepted that those people who have the "Singh" surname are hindus and those with "Meetei" or "Meitei" are those who follows the Sanamahi religion. So it is my view that this article need to clearly mention the above definitions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.254.228.44 (talk) 17:48, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like a good suggestion - please provide some reliable sources in English that provide that distinction. This article needs lots of work.Parkwells (talk) 02:11, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Meitei people/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)	Press [show] to view →
I ranked this as a start b/c it has a reasonable amount of info for a short article, more than one would see in a stub. It still needs a lot of fleshing out though.  Erielhonan  20:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 20:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 23:38, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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1445 B.C.

It was found from historical record book like Cheitharol Kumbaba and Puya

References

Meitei as Indigenous people

Meitei are without a doubt indigenous people in North East India..the present Manipur was even known as Kangleipak Meetei Leipak Sana leipak etc and meitei are known by neighbouring countries or kingdom as Mecklee,Kathe,Hsiao Po-Lo Mein etc Luwanglinux (talk) 12:12, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Indigenous and native means the same. No need to add redundant words in the lead. Also Meitei are not East Asian. Check the East Asian article. Tibeto-Burman languages is a valid group of languages to which Meitei language belong. All ethno-linguistic articles use linguistic identifiers in the lead or geographical. In the case of geography, India is already mentioned. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:50, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

The other terms for the group is mentioned in Meitei people#Endonyms and exonyms section. Though it is unsourced. No need to readd them in the lead. GO through GA article like Greek people. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:51, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

References

Administrator

I hope this content is protected from VandalismLuwanglinux (talk) 12:29, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

East Asian

@Luwanglinux: As explained to you on various user talk pages, we don't use racial identifiers in pages about ethnic groups. The most natural identifier is geography, by which Meitei people are a South Asian ethnic group (Meitei is the dominant ethnic group in Manipur, a state of India, which is in South Asia. Another optional (and sometimes problematic) identifier is by linguistic affiliation of the language spoken by an ethnic group, in this case Tibeto-Burman. Both these indentifer can be easily supported by reliable sources on ethnology, geography and linguistics. Calling Meitei people "East Asian" is less self-explantory, unless it is understood as a racial identifier, in which case it is highly problematic, since we do not engage in race-based classifcations here in Wikipedia. Please present us WP:reliable sources which call Meitei peoeple "East Asian" here, and we will see if we can get a consensus to make use of such sources. –Austronesier (talk) 16:00, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Population figures Comment

@Simon0117: Kindly discuss it here as per WP:BRD. The number for Meitei (Manipuris) in Mizoram is well sourced as per census 2011. Granted that Manipuris have higher numbers in Delhi and Karnataka as per census, but those are diaspora figures. Ethnologue source identifies Mizoram as one of the regions where Meitei spread seem to be native (neighboring state). The figures from census for Mizoram is there to reflect what Ethnologue source said. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

@Austronesier and Chaipau: would you weigh regarding this change? Ethnologue source clearly mentions Mizoram to be a state in which Manipuris reside, also sourced by Census 2011, but Simon here argues (without source) that those are only students and migrants. By that logic, we should not be mentioning Myanmar in the Infobox either, since it is likely a diaspora population from the history. It is very likely that many Manipuris live in Mizoram natively since they are neighbouring states. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:19, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: This is the most appropriate response. If there are just student and work-related temporary Meitei immigrants in Mizoram then the addition of a citation would be appropriate here, not the deletion of the fact. Chaipau (talk) 08:32, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

@Chaipau: I agree. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 08:53, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk and Chaipau: This map[2] shows that the Meitei speech area contiguously extends to Mizoram. Do you happen to have access to the detailed map? –Austronesier (talk) 11:35, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

@Austronesier: The archived map seems to have some errors. The current map shows only Meitei and has this in text for meitei distribution: "Assam state: Cachar and Dima Hasao; Mainly Manipur state; Nagaland state: Dimapur, Kohima, Peren, Phek; Mizoram state: Aizwal and Kolasibi; possibly some in nearby states."

@Austronesier: Thanks for the archive map. @Chaipau: I can't view the current map possibly because I have a free account. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:57, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Original name of Manipur state(homestate of Meetei/Meitei people)is Kangleipak

Original name of Manipur is Kangleipak,the Indian state Manipur(Kangleipak) and and a village or province in Indian stateOrissa(Odisha) "Manipur" have different story in history and myth.The term "Manipur" for the Indian State Manipur(Kangleipak) is coined only after late 17th century AD after Pamheiba accepted vaishnavism and abolish all native name.ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 12:24, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

References

Kangleipak

@Luwanglinux: "Kangleipak" is a historic name at best (for which you have to prove its significance here in Wikipedia). We do not add historic names in the lead. We only write the WP:COMMONNAME and official name, if different. As in the case of Allahabad article. Note that Germany is not named Deutschland in this English Wikipedia nor the Germans article say they are residents of Deutschland. Also note [[India]]n and [[India|Indian]] yields the same and the former is preferred as per general formatting styles scripts. It was not a misplaced edit as you put here. Pinging @Noq, Gotitbro, Austronesier, and Chaipau:. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:35, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

I have written in the above section the importance of Kangleipak regarding Meitei people,the article like Manipur (princely state), clearly mentioned Kangleipak in the lead, also German article not mentioning "Deutchland" is not surprising German and Germany suit very well but Meitei and Manipuri don't suit well.Manipuri should mean all native of Manipur not only Meitei.,this is about Meitei people,isn't it significant to mention their origin in their native name which make no harm to wikipedia policy and recognising Meitei belongingness and the Manipur state language.Beside there is a controversy of two Manipur in India both official in India.ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 15:27, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Nope. See WP:LEAD and WP:COMMONNAME. Historic names are not added in the lead when referring to a modern administrative region. It'll be only notable if the government decides to change the current name of the state Manipur to "Kangleipak", like how Bangalore was changed to Bengaluru and Allahabad changed to Prayagraj, even then WP:COMMONNAME applies and you can see the old names are preferred in Wikipedia

..also German article not mentioning "Deutchland" is not surprising German and Germany suit very well but Meitei and Manipuri don't suit well.. I don't know what you mean by "suit very well" but FYI the native term used by Germans to self-identify is Deutsche not "German". As you can see, the term commonly used in English is kept. There are many examples like that. As I said "Kangleipak" is at best suited in the hidtory section of the article, provided we establish notability for that term. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:05, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

I mean tagging Manipuri in Meitei only is not suitable as the term Manipuri is for all native of Manipur.Tangkhula native of Manipur never used Manipuri in their lead section they use Naga instead, which is a controversial generic name of collective of different ethnics,this current version as you put make it seem like only Meitei are known as Manipuri,it create a misconception among the native of Manipur.ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 16:16, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

You are confusing ethnic group with administrative division, the state of Manipur as defined by the government here. Tangkhul Naga articel as of now clearly mentions "Manipur, India" in the lead. Check any linguistic group article Punjabis, Gujaratis, Santal people, Tamil people, etc. The state name where they live mainly is clearly mentioned. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:26, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

You are confusing Meitei as the only Manipuri as if it mean only Meitei starting from info box too,first add Manipuri to Tangkhul Kabui all native ethnic of manipur,as for settlement Meitei too settled in cahar of assam,bangladesh,tripura they are very much native thereꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 17:00, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Check any linguistic group article Punjabis, Gujaratis, Santal people, Tamil people, etc. The state name where they live mainly is clearly mentioned as you said this is not a linguitic article its about ethnic group Meitei people a very old ethnic group in the world which has written history of 2000 years in their own language.every state of India returned to their native name eg Odisha from Orrisa.A name imposed by other is not respectable to an ethnic specially if it threatens their history, culture, identity.ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 17:08, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Tangkhul Naga articel as of now clearly mentions "Manipur, India" in the lead Tangkhul as naga is not even official in Manipur. Tangkhul tagging themselve as Naga is a self proclaim term specially after the NSCN-IM started propagating Nagalim idea..In Manipur they are known by Mao,Maram,Anal,Tangkhul,Kabui,chothe,Maring etc orginally.Nagaland nagas even call tangkhul katcha naga they are not registered in Nagaland officially as their native tribe.

You are diverting it to so something else. We are discussing "Kangleipak" only here. We at Wikipedia are not at liberty to put something which is not the official name, significant or the commonname.

..Meitei people a very old ethnic group in the world which has written history of 2000 years in their own language.every state of India returned to their native name eg Odisha from Orrisa.A name imposed by other is not respectable to an ethnic specially if it threatens their history, cultur identity... ← Wikipedia is not a forum to discuss nationalistic POV.

Just check the Punjabis article lead sentence. - The Punjabis (Punjabi (Shahmukhi): پنجابی ; Punjabi (Gurmukhi): ਪੰਜਾਬੀ) or the Punjabi people are an Indo-Aryan ethnolinguistic group associated with the Punjab region in South Asia, specifically in the northern part of the Indian subcontinent presently divided between Punjab, India and Punjab, Pakistan - Is there a mention of Maurya Empire, Sikh Empire, etc. in it? Does the Gujaratis article lead mentions anything about it being part of the Gurjara-Pratihara dynasty from which the ethnicity and teh state likely derived its name? Bombay Presidency? is it mentioned.

Most of the north east India was under Kamarupa, do we have this mentioned in any of the articles of north-east ethnic articles? Listen, we mention the current government given name and/or the WP:COMMONNAME. The format is
ABC is an ethnic group that natively lives in XYZ state of India

And please no more Whataboutism. Wait for other users to weigh in- Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:35, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

---

The format is
ABC is an ethnic group that natively lives in XYZ state of India but XYZ state is also known as PQR is quite common in english wiki,ethnic article is very much about identity of the group of people so misinformation should not be encouraged.Kangleipak as common name as well as historic name I have already given many sources.ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ)

The Punjabis (Punjabi (Shahmukhi): پنجابی ; Punjabi (Gurmukhi): ਪੰਜਾਬੀ) or the Punjabi people are an Indo-Aryan ethnolinguistic group associated with the Punjab region in South Asia, specifically in the northern part of the Indian subcontinent presently divided between Punjab, India and Punjab, Pakistan There is no wiki article about Manipuri people as same ethnic group which should be collective of all native of Manipur.FYI Manipuri and Punjabi mean very different thing in term of similar number of ethnic group included in the term.ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 19:55, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

---

but XYZ state is also known as PQR is quite common in english wiki.. NO it's not. PQR = "Kangleipak" is not the WP:COMMONNAME in English. Not a general term. A simple google search yields 55 million hits for 'Manipur' but only 45,000 for 'Kangleipak'. 'Kangleipak' is thus not a significant name to be added in the lead. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 08:06, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

"Kangleipak" is the historical predecessor of the modern state of Manipur. The name has a high cultural significance for the Meitei people, but is not much known outside of Manipur. @Luwanglinux: What is the official name of Manipur in the Meitei language in documents issued by the local government? –Austronesier (talk) 08:59, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Even if Kangleipak refers to a kingdom, it might not refer to a people.Manipur today is the home to many other ethnic groups, not just the Meitei people. Chaipau (talk) 10:37, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Chaipau Kangleipak and Manipur mean the same thing one is old name other is official name.being native to the place XYZ also known as PQR , it does not mean anything about leaving other native.ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 13:01, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

@Luwanglinux: Please read what I have said carefully. This article is about the people, not the kingdom/state. As far as I can see the state has other ethnic communities as well. You may discuss Kangleipak in the context of the Manipur (princely state). Chaipau (talk) 16:12, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Luwanglinux has broken WP:3RR. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:28, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

WP:MOSIS

I think WP:MOSIS applies here since this is about a people and not a language. There are too many blank boxes here and for someone not interested in the language, but just the people, this is very distracting. If a person is interested in the language, they can definitely fo to the language page. Chaipau (talk) 10:31, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Chaipau Stop removing entonym content just because you see it as Noto fonts it is because your system does not support it try mozilla browser.the content is nothing about language but using only Meetei Mayek texts for some word preferably within a parenthesis after the english word— Preceding unsigned comment added by Luwanglinux (talk • contribs) 13:41, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Read WP:MOSIS. Stop insisting that your preference should override longstanding policy. noq (talk) 13:52, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

noq I really wonder if none of english wiki article use other language and script for certain word.is this words inPunjabis also against The Punjabis (Punjabi (Shahmukhi): پنجابی ; Punjabi (Gurmukhi): ਪੰਜਾਬੀ) or the Punjabi people are an Indo-Aryan ethnolinguistic group associated with the Punjab region in South Asia,'WP:MOSIS.

Majority of the Punjabis live in Pakistan. WP:MOSIS doesn't apply in Pakistan related articles. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:21, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Manipuri people

the term Manipuri people should not be added only to Meitei people,this create chaos and division among the native people Manipur, its a misinformation,rather a new article for MANIPURI PEOPLE is needed,as Manipuri people consist of all the native of Modern state Manipur.ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 13:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

We have a WP:reliable source which says that "Manipuri people" is often encountered as an alternative name for the Meitei people. The dab-page Manipuri people has one item that leads our readers here.

–Austronesier (talk) 14:13, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

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