Template:Did you know nominations/1111 Lincoln Road

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Orlady (talk) 21:13, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

1111 Lincoln Road

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... that the architecturally-acclaimed, frequently-photographed, popular-for-events 1111 Lincoln Road is a ... parking garage!?

Reviewed: Sochatchov (Hasidic dynasty)

Created/expanded by Wasted Time R (talk). Self nom at 13:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

This article's length is good, the research is solid, and the tone is neutral. Images are from Wiki Commons. The article's hook is buried in the fouth paragraph. I would recommend moving that paragraph into the lead paragraph for more punch. Finally, I would suggest re-writing the first sentence to read as follow: "The garage has attracted the interest of architects and photographers." Otherwise, this DYK is good to go and thank you for your interesting contribution. Marcd30319 (talk) 00:59, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

If the article were longer I would agree with you, but as it is it's a short seven paragraphs. At that length I don't see the need for a traditional 'lead' that summarizes the information that comes later, because it would just come across as needless repetition to the reader. And I don't want to just move the fourth paragraph up to the top, because that gets the results out of order with the motivation. To me, the 'punch' starts with the second paragraph, which says that parking garages are usually awful but on this one there was a goal to be different. That should be what keeps readers going. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:26, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Just for the record, this article is 692 words long, consisting of 3627 characters, so the article is compliant for DYK. Marcd30319 (talk) 14:40, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Re: opening, fair enough, so how about this as the opening paragraph: "1111 Lincoln Road is a parking garage in the South Beach section of Miami Beach, Florida, that is designed by the internationally known Swiss architectural firm of Herzog & de Meuron. It is loacted at the western end of the Lincoln Road Mall at the intersection with Alton Road, and can house some 300 cars. Since its opening in 2010, the 1111 Lincoln Road garage has attracted the interest of architects and photographers due to its unique design." Include the footnote from the original opening sentence from the fourth paragraph and then cut that original sentence in question from the fourth paragraph, and this should resolve this issue. Marcd30319 (talk) 14:40, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

But it's not just architects and photographers, it's also runners and tourists and event planners. By the time I move all this into the first paragraph, the article is sort of upside down. Wasted Time R (talk) 14:56, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Okay, how about this -- we keep the fourth paragraph as is, and we add this as the concluding sentence in the opening paragraph: "Since its opening in 2010, the 1111 Lincoln Road garage has attracted the considerable interest due to its unique, aesthetically iconoclastic appearance that does not follow the more utilitarian design traditionally associated with parking garages." Marcd30319 (talk) 15:58, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

ALT1: ... that 1111 Lincoln Road is an architecturally-acclaimed, frequently-photographed, popular-for-events parking garage?

Proposed by Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:10, 30 December 30 2011 "more standard hook format"

My feeling is that a hook should be a hook ... and my original construct is more 'suspenseful' than the ALT1 rewrite and is more likely to induce main page readers to click through to the article. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:26, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Concur. See my comments above for an alternate solution. Marcd30319 (talk) 14:40, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Wasted Time R, could you please clarify your role in this process. Are you not the originator/author of the article as shown in the article's history? Yet you have been the one who has commented negatively regarding this article's length, the effectiveness of the hook, and the suggested remedial correction to this article. This is causing considerable confusion from me and, possibly, from Crisco, too. I think you owe us an explanation. Marcd30319 (talk) 15:58, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I think we should, you know, actually avoid using an extra "..." and sensationalist phrasing. Generally I prefer to keep the article up at the front of the hook, but if you want it in the back (sans ... ) that may be acceptable. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:46, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't quite understand what you are trying to say, but here is my suggested re-write of the opening paragraph: "1111 Lincoln Road is a parking garage in the South Beach section of Miami Beach, Florida, that is designed by the internationally known Swiss architectural firm of Herzog & de Meuron. It is located at the western end of the Lincoln Road Mall at the intersection with Alton Road, and can house some 300 cars. Since its opening in 2010, the 1111 Lincoln Road garage has attracted considerable interest because its unique appearance is different from more traditional parking garage designs." Marcd30319 (talk) 19:33, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Marcd, I have added your language to the first paragraph. As for your requested clarification, yes I wrote the article – but no I have not commented negatively upon it, I just haven't wanted to change it, since I thought I got it right the first time :-) But I'm okay with this last suggested change. As for the hook, whoever makes the final promotion of this into the DYK queue can decide between my original hook and Crisco's ALT1 hook. Wasted Time R (talk) 22:03, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

This is an awesome opportunity for a DYK. I suggest an alternative hook:

ALT2: ... that a parking garage in Miami Beach was described as having a "stunning" design and has hosted weddings, wine tastings, and dinner parties? --Orlady (talk) 00:51, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Orlady's hook looks good. My main issue was with the extra ellipses in the original hook, which comes across as being overly sensationalist. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:17, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm clearly in the minority here, hook-wise, so I'll go along with whatever the rest of you come up with. You can also consider adding File:1111 Lincoln Road at night.jpg to it, although my general experience is that main page approvers don't like night-time photos. Wasted Time R (talk) 02:54, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

A little busy for 100px. -- See? Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:06, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

All is good. Moving to prep 1. --Orlady (talk) 21:13, 4 January 2012 (UTC)