Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive196
TripWire
[edit]| TripWire (talk · contribs) is topic banned from all Balochistan related articles, broadly construed, for three months. Both TripWire and Kautilya3 (talk · contribs) are placed on a 'casting aspersions' restriction (described in detail on their talk). This same restriction is applied to all articles in the India-Pakistan area, broadly construed. Further, any edit made by an IP or new editor alleging socking or meatpuppetry may be freely reverted and any accusations ignored on article or user talk pages. SPI is the only place for such allegations. Finally, editors are warned from gaming the process by canvassing or other means; future disruption of this nature may result in a block. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 11:57, 29 July 2016 (UTC) | ||||||||||||
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning TripWire[edit]
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan: ARBIPA
The user came back from a topic ban about 6 months ago and went back to the old ways soon after. At the previous AE request on 10 April, I argued against a sanction because I felt the user was showing improvement and a lot of the activity at that time centered on a sock (MBlaze Lightning). That is not the case any more. The user's talk page discussion is merely stonewalling. They constantly tell others to seek consensus, but never strive for consensus themselves. The POV that they push is not merely that of nationalism but of the State. Even AHRC's objections are brushed off. The edit that breaks the camel's back is the latest edit on 9 July (diff 1). This one reinstates the edit of a user that just got topic-banned, deleting content sourced to scholarly sources and replacing it with OR. Two fake citations (one pointing to the last page of a book's index and another to a newspaper opinion column) appear, neither of which supports the claim that Gilgit-Baltistan "unconditionally acceded" to Pakistan. This is merely the State's propaganda that is being pushed on Wikipedia. Most other users that have tried to reason with the user have given up in exasperation. I am at wit's end. I think it is time to take action again. Responses: TripWire's long-winded, rambling response illustrates the same frivilous attitude that pervades all their discussions. This is not the place for content discussion anyway.
Nationalistic POV: TripWire asks where they exhibited nationalistic POV. At Wikipedia, we aim to provide a fair representation of all the views expressed in reliable sources (WP:NPOV). TripWire's position in diff 1 is that of the Pakistani State, viz., Gilgit-Baltistan voluntarily acceded to Pakistan. Scholars disagree and they are dismissed. In diffs 2, 3, and 5, they support the State's views such as Kulbhushan Yadav is an Indian spy and Baloch Students Organization is a terrorist organization. All contrary views are dismissed. Nuro Dragonfly, a neutral third-party editor that came to mediate on the Kulbhushan Yadav page, had this to say at an earlier ARE case: "All attempts to create a neutral POV consensus in the article have been rejected by either FreeatlastChitchat or TripWire on all occasions, especially once the subject matter turns to the fact that everything that Pakistan has said on the matter is just a claim, exactly the same as everything India says is just a claim."[1]. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:33, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
On The Wordsmith proposals: I think we are beyond the stage of civility now. TripWire did learn something from their last topic ban. Their strategy now is to quietly push POV without being noticeable. For example, if we look at the diff 1, they deleted content sourced to scholarly sources {{sfn|Schofield|2003|pp=63-64}} and Yaqoob Khan Bangash's journal article, and replaced it with content citing fake sources (the same Schofield book with a meaningless page number 278, and an opinion column from Dawn [2], neither of which supports the new content). In fact the Dawn column argues the opposite point of view. This is just a reckless WP:BATTLEGROUND edit, meant to pick a fight. Anybody looking at the edit would simply think it is a content dispute and wouldn't know that anything is wrong. Likewise, the talk page comment, "The sources are fine. It is your understanding that is wrong." is not particularly uncivil. It is the unwillingness to engage with the actual subject but nevertheless revert edits that makes it BATTLEGROUND. Even after I reported the issue here, TripWire didn't bother to find out what the issues are, calling it simply "WALLOFTEXT." I am not sure how civility parole would address this behaviour. How am I supposed to engage with an editor that has no clue what is going on? I rarely recommend topic bans. I argued against the topic-ban for Towns Hill and I also argued with Bishonen against the topic ban for Saladin1987, even though, ironically, the latter was banned for edit-wars and personal attacks against me. If an editor brings up valuable points and looks half-way reasonable, I prefer to reason with them rather than to punish them. In the case of TripWire, none of that works. I think topic ban is the right course of action here. TripWire is of no particular use to Wikipedia. Other than the Kulbhushan Yadav page, where their contribution is apparently 35%, no other article shows any contribution above 1-2%. Their main participation on Wikipedia has been to edit-war and disrupt other editors that do actually contribute. Before TripWire entered the scene in June 2015, the India-Pakistan space was quite stable. As Future Perfect at Sunrise has rightly pointed out, TripWire's entry has been " On the proposed IBAN: I have quite a few reservations about the proposed IBAN. But I promise to think about it carefully overnight. Meanwhile, I would like to request RegentsPark and NeilN to provide their input on the viability of the proposal. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:05, 26 July 2016 (UTC) After an overnight consideration, my reservations about IBAN are unchanged. The edit restrictions on Kashmir conflict pages implemented by RegentsPark have been working well so far. I would welcome their extension to all pages involving India-Pakistan conflicts. As for the matter of DS socks or other socks, I have always acted within policy and will continue to do so. This is not the appropriate place to debate the policy itself. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 14:30, 27 July 2016 (UTC) On the socks problem: TripWare states that I used [their] edits/comments (diffs) against the sock here at the AE report. I have double-checked all my diffs and none of them involve any socks. On the other hand, until a sock is identified, reported and blocked, we must treat them like any other editor. I am at a loss to understand this idea of "supporting socks." -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:13, 27 July 2016 (UTC) More on the remedies: As I have said above, I welcome the extension of the entire package of restrictions RegentsPark implemented for Kashmir conflict. I am not confident that the aspersion restriction alone is enough. In fact, I don't believe a serious problem of aspersions on individual editors occurred. It did occur for sources, but that is, to an extent, legitimate, as part of interrogating the sources. I am also not confident that we, as a community, are at wit's end yet. No serious edit-warring occurred in all the cases I mentioned. No serious breach of civility. Aspersions on editors was also not an issue. The problem was really disregard for Wikipedia policies of Verifiability and WP:NPOV. So I would prefer this to be treated as an issue of individual conduct rather than a systemic issue. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:07, 28 July 2016 (UTC) Final (?) comment on the remedies: I don't think the remedy (2) is necessary because the aspersions were really cast on the sources rather than on the editors. But, since RegentsPark has proposed it, I will accept it, and aim to get better in future. The remedy (3) needs more clarity. Does "India-Pakistan articles" mean all of India articles and all of Pakistan articles? Or only India-Pakistan conflict articles? If the latter, does it include Balochistan conflict articles, which is where the problems have arisen at the moment? Finally, if TripWire is going to be sanctioned, I suppose they need to be told why they are being sanctioned. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 01:14, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
Discussion concerning TripWire[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by TripWire[edit]Oh, so may WP:ASPERSIONS. Will humbly try to answer:
Re Regentspark: Sir, I do agree with you and will surely try to follow your advice. I cant help but mention that this is what I already have been doing - trying to gain consensus constructively by positively engaging with the involved parties including the socks. Surely, per your advice, I will try to improve if there's any shortcoming. No argument on that. As for the socks, well sir, if an info was not allowed to stay in the article previously, it means that there's been a consensus not to include it at some point in the past. Now, using socks to push it again wont solve the matter, nor would it automatically mean that the edit become legit because a sock is repeatedly trying to push it. Not unless fresh evidence is presented which may change the consensus, and I am all for it. Legit edits dont require socks to add them. That's what is observed in remaining Indo-Pak conflict pages. The rules regarding usage of sources were set by Kuatilya himself, and he alone cant selectively follow part of those rules, reject the other part that does not suit him, and then change the rules altogether when other editors try following them in letter and spirit. Thanks.
Statement by TopGun[edit]I commented on the last TripWire AE and generally know most users/socks and disputes in this topic area so the admins might benefit from my views on this. I've been following three sets of socks closely and trying to get them blocked for a year now: [18] [19] [20]. All three of them are disruptive, persistent and try to create this kind of mess each time they return. Unfortunately, there are not many active editors who recognize them and by the time I or another experienced editor report them, the victim articles are under complicated disputes. The balochistan conflict topic area is facing the exact same situation. To add to the fuel, Kautilya3 has demonstrated that he wants to assume responsibility of all edits of socks (in wholesale) as he said here. This can not be done without him having to clear WP:BURDEN instead of asking others to do so and is an issue per se as well. The Darkness Shines sock was just blocked after my report and his threads were hatted (as it happened in his previous attempts at disrupting the same article)... however the same is happening here with the dispute dragging on and Kautilya3 taking up the dispute. It's over and there's no need to drag it and if an editor thinks another user is not agreeing to their arguments, it's the basic right of an editor to participate in consensus in that way as far as they are civil and WP:DRN exists to resolve that to form a clearer consensus as already pointed out by an NeilN at the end of that discussion, not AE. If the traveling circus continues even after the sock is blocked, their purpose is achieved.
--lTopGunl (talk) 18:16, 12 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by Bharatiya29[edit]TripWire's behavior at Talk:Balochistan conflict has been disturbing. He has constantly tried to block any attempts at making the article neutral and has objected to the addition of those contents which are not in agreement to Pakistan government's POV. The article has a section dedicated to Pakistan's allegations on India of supporting Baloch separatist groups. When I have tried to mention Baloch group's denial of this allegation, TripWire reverted me just because he maintains that the group is not reliable since it has been declared as a terrorist organisation by Pakistan government (although he hasn't cited any third-party sources to prove this). TripWire also seems to have an unfounded assumption that Indian media constitute Indian propaganda. His sole motive here is to confine WP to the views of the Pakistan government and he has argued against all other editors asking for NPOV.. Bharatiya29 13:51, 13 July 2016 (UTC) Response to TripWire's comments:What’s more disturbing than pushing a nationalistic POV? I never said that only third-party sources should be used; rather I have always said that the views of all the stakeholders should be mentioned with due weightage. Would you please explain to me that what does the Indian government have to do with interviews of notable Baloch nationalists by independent media houses? If you are really convinced that all the Indian media coverage is influenced by the Indian government then you must prove your point. I have repeatedly told you that the fact that Pakistan has declared BSO as a terrorist organisation is not enough to prove its non-reliability. Bharatiya29 08:38, 14 July 2016 (UTC) Response to TripWire's new comments:I have never said that only third-party sources should be used, instead statements by all the parties should also be given space. You should know that even if Karima Baloch is not notable as an individual, she is the chairperson of an involved party, and that is what makes her statement worth mentioning. I am being forced to discuss about all these stuff here since you are accusing me of having an biased approach. The discussion here is regarding your behavior, and so this was the last time I responded to your baseless allegations. Bharatiya29 15:30, 14 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by SheriffIsInTown[edit]Being an encyclopedia, Wikipedia is about fact telling and should be about fact telling. It should not be used for political propaganda. Using an encyclopedia for political propaganda defies its purpose of being an encyclopedia. Kautilya3's editing has been nothing but political propaganda. He tries to find less than encyclopedic information which suits his POV and adds it to encyclopedia. He calls founder of a nation as "internet beast", a clear indication that he personally considers him a villain for pursuing to create modern day boundaries in South Asia. He also at one point said that he does not recognize modern day boundaries in South Asia and it seems like his edits are more centric towards an undivided South Asia. Not recognizing the present day boundaries in South Asia makes the region look like the map in Akhand Bharat article where there is no other country except India in South Asia. Going in with that state of mind and editing a contentious topic area such as WP:ARBIPA can only create neutrality issues. Neutral editors like TripWire are needed to ensure that articles are not sidetracked by editors who display such political prejudice. If we will start banning editors like TripWire who did not violate any principle set forth in WP:ARBIPA but only challenged less than neutral edits of Kautilya3 who clearly displayed political prejudice at several times in their editing then we will only make Wikipedia, a non-neutral politically motivated information portal which is not what an encyclopedia should be. If anyone who deserves to be topic-banned from WP:ARBIPA is Kautilya3 and not TripWire. I am not sure if these findings can call for a Boomerang but if they do then I will suggest one against the nom. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 11:04, 14 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by D4iNa4[edit]Report is legit and action is necessary, since TripWire came off from a topic ban just some months ago, he had to be more careful but he is not. D4iNa4 (talk) 17:34, 14 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by Sitush[edit]@Lord Roem: IBANs just create more drama, as is nowadays frequently noted at ANI. Such a remedy will achieve absolutely nothing here. I could have predicted where this will end up even before TripWire's previous sanction and I really shouldn't have to spell it out: sooner or later they will be indef'd, unfortunately. And if there is blame to be attached to Kautilya then any remedy should be proportionate, bearing in mind the concept of first "offence". I think you (all commenting admins) might benefit from giving NeilN some time to respond as they're relatively familiar with the subject matter and the participants (both those specifically named here and more generally in the context of South Asian articles). - Sitush (talk) 22:30, 26 July 2016 (UTC) And this comment from TripWire after my message above says it all. If they think Kautliya is tag-teaming/meatpuppeting then they need to prove it, and ditto for the ludicrous claim that K is socking - WP:SPI is >>>> thataway. It is demonstrative of the battleground and nationalist-centric position that TW adopts and it needs to stop. Just do that topic ban, please, and if deemed necessary then give K a slap. - Sitush (talk) 00:15, 27 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning TripWire[edit]
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HappyWaldo
[edit]| HappyWaldo (talk · contribs) is blocked for three days for violating their topic ban. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 00:33, 31 July 2016 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning HappyWaldo[edit]
Discussion concerning HappyWaldo[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by HappyWaldo[edit]I knew of this but didn't know it was enforced or reached any kind of conclusion. For some reason my alerts don't show up on some computers/devices. Anyway, I don't think it's fair that user PeterTheFourth remove Milo's views on feminism, esp the quotes. It demonstrates Milo's provocative, humourous style, and provides necessary qualifiers. PeterTheFourth contends that it's too long, whereas I think it needs further expansion, along with Milo's views on Islam, BLM, and other matters he frequently discusses. - HappyWaldo (talk) 05:20, 30 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning HappyWaldo[edit]
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Doc9871
[edit]| Doc9871 (talk · contribs) topic banned 1 month from all pages related to Donald Trump by Bishonen (talk · contribs), and is further warned that any disruption in the topic areas covered under Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2 will lead to an extension and/or broadening of the ban. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 21:07, 2 August 2016 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Doc9871[edit]
On the talk page of Donald Trump
On the Donald Trump article itself. Please be aware that the article is under a 1RR restriction:
[32] blocked as part of Arbitration Enforcement on two previous occasions, both fairly recent, for exactly the same article.
In regard to the second diff, in case Doc tries to argue that the above listed edit were not reverts, please note the discussion that followed his May 2016 block [35] where the blocking admin, User:Coffee explains to him precisely what a revert is. So he knew he was doing bad.
See above. The user has been sanctioned on these articles under DS previously and also received a recent notification (I was not aware he had previous blocks in this area until I started writing this report)
Personally I can't tell if this is some kind of personal grudge (the nature of Doc's comments come off that way) or it's just the topic involved. Either way, it's clear that the user has decided unilaterally that I should not be allowed to edit the article for some reason, and has proceeded to edit war, breaking not just 1RR (which the article is subject to) but even 3RR, making very petty reverts. My edits didn't even change the text, just improved the sourcing so this is clearly a WP:POINT violation, where Doc is basically saying "I will not allow you to make a single edit to this article". Even putting aside the edit warring and the personal attacks, this is disruptive and unacceptable. In light of the previous blocks the user received See also these two previous AN/I threads which document exactly the same problematic behavior in other areas. This means previous warnings have been issued. Repeatedly. [36] a dispute with User:SMcCandlish, closed by User:John, and [37] initiated by User:John (don't know how that ended up).Volunteer Marek (talk) 10:21, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
Statement by (Doc9871)[edit]
Statement by Johnuniq[edit]Would admins please explain to Doc9871 that whacking people with a wet trout is not a substitute for a calm exchange of views, and this diff at User talk:Bishonen#August 2016 is entirely inappropriate. I see several aspersions being cast above, and no evidence. Johnuniq (talk) 12:05, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
Statement by SMcCandlish[edit]I'm reluctant to get into any dispute involving Doc9871, but this is the same problem as last year. Volunteer Marek diffed my previous ANI complaint, but there were two; the second also closed without action, despite being about immediate resumption of the same behavior after a warning. No consequences = no impetus for adjustment. There's no excuse for comments like "You really have no business editing this article", and others diffed by Marek (there is no requirement that editors be neutral, only content must be; are any editors neutral about Trump?). The "Don't challenge me ... You have no chance getting me on a "personal attack'" battlegrounding mirrors the stuff last year (e.g.: "Open an AN/I on me if you want."[39] and several other such 'I'm invincible' challenges, "Ask around if I am one to quarrel with. I will 'Wikilawyer' you, and really good. You don't have to like me: you have to reckon with me."[40], "You're playing with fire. You better know when to recognize this."[41], "I will fight this PC nonsense until the bitter end."[42]). (Actually, I just realized this previous matter really is American-political, an anti-progressivism stance.) Doc9871 uses others' block logs as weapons, and struts that he is immune to repercussions just because his own block log is [somehow] clean [43], [44], [45], [46] (samples from his months-long, bad-faith-assuming and veiled-threat abuse of a single editor, Ihardlythinkso, in a pattern repeated later with me). WP does not need a gangland kingpin. This behavior has to stop. I suggest prohibiting Doc9871 from:
Give escalating blocks for recurrent transgressions. This would nip this battlegrounding problem in the bud. All four of these behaviors are consistently exhibited in Doc's aggressive soapboxing against Ihardlythinkso, myself, and Volunteer Marek in series, over a long time; it's not a fluke or coincidence. AE should put out Doc's "fire", since ANI never results in action due to Doc having a bit of a fan club. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 12:29, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
Statement by USERNAME[edit]Result concerning Doc9871[edit]
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62.0.34.134
[edit]| Clear violation after several warnings. Blocked 72 hours. Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:41, 4 August 2016 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning 62.0.34.134[edit]
This editor has been repeatedly warned[52][53] [54] that IPs are prohibited from editing any article that may be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Yet the IP continues to make such edits. It would appear from the content that the same editor has been using this IP for several weeks,
Discussion concerning 62.0.34.134[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning 62.0.34.134[edit]
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Malik Shabazz
[edit]| Kamel Tebaast (talk · contribs) is topic banned from the topic of the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed, for one month. No action taken against Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs). Lord Roem ~ (talk) 20:48, 13 August 2016 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Malik Shabazz[edit]
WP:ARBPIA3; WP:EDITWAR; WP:1RR; WP:CIVIL, specifically taunting and WP:HARASS.
M.Shabazz made three two reverts in a 24-hour period in an article and topic under WP:1RR:
M.Shabazz then taunted to take him to WP:ANEW or [[WP:AE]:
M.Shabazz uses threats [I believe to stifle opposing opinions]:
The two examples that he gave here and here were WP:BRD, in which his first example, "security" was accepted into the lede and the second example "deleting the word "unilateral", seems to have come to a consensus in the Talk page here.
Unaware.
M.Shabazz has made Wikipedia a difficult environment, especially for newer editors who may have opposing views. That is not in Wikipedia's best interest. KamelTebaast 04:28, 10 August 2016 (UTC) At Malik Shabazz's suggestion, I re-read the WP:3RR. It states: "A "revert" means any edit (or administrative action) that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material. A series of consecutive saved revert edits by one user with no intervening edits by another user counts as one revert." Accordingly, I miscategorized his second revert and have since changed that. However, although Malik Shabazz states that he simply "added to what Kemal Tebaast had written" is disingenuous at best and is one revert. To his credit, User:Zero0000 warned me about violating the 1RR here. I immediately self-reverted. When I gave Malik Shabazz the same opportunity to self-revert, he taunted me to report him. He can straw man this to death with bad sources and boomerang, but in the end, it is on him for violating the 1RR that some editors seem to want avoid. I'm also intrigued by editors, such as Malik Shabazz and Nishidani, who are vocal about other editors POV-pushing, when this and this is front and center. Intriguing.
:For even further clarity, Nishidani reverted me here (one revert), then he went in and edited again here. Would that not constitute two reverts in a 24-hour period since his writing was not adding to my original wording, but rather to his revert. Also, In his second edit, he left out the word "him". Would it be allowable for me to fix it? KamelTebaast 20:05, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Yes, here. Discussion concerning Malik Shabazz[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Malik Shabazz[edit]It's 1 o'clock in the morning, and I'll respond to this silliness in greater detail later. But I wish to say that if the novel interpretation of 1RR cooked up by editors Kemal Tebaast and Epson Salts is given any credence, editing controversial articles will become impossible. In my edit to Jewish Voice for Peace at 13:03 on 7 August, I added to what Kemal Tebaast had written; I did not make a reversion. Good night. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 05:06, 10 August 2016 (UTC) What Kemal Tebaast calls my second revert is my second consecutive edit to the article on 7 August. It's not a reversion at all, but even if it were, consecutive edits are considered a single edit for 1RR purposes. Of course, you have to actually read WP:3RR to know that. I wrote on Talk:Jewish Voice for Peace that I thought my friends had a problem counting. Perhaps they have a reading comprehension problem as well. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 11:25, 10 August 2016 (UTC) I recommend that Kemal Tebaast and Epson Salts re-read WP:3RR and start to use a little common sense. I also recommend that they read WP:BOOMERANG, because the longer they keep up this ridiculous shtick, the more likely it is that their own behavior will be scrutinized. Finally, for all their belly-aching about gaming 1RR, Epson Salts hasn't answered an important question: do they think ifamericansknew.org is a reliable source, and do they think it was a problem that I removed it a little more than 24 hours after I reverted totally unrelated material? Does anybody? That's the essence of this complaint. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 15:15, 10 August 2016 (UTC) No, Epson Salts, not "special pleading". That would require a violation, which is not the case. By your own admission, I removed a shitty source more than 24 hours after my last edit to the article. Show me how that violates WP:GAME. Only in your mind, and that of Kemal Tebaast, is that gaming the system. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 16:33, 10 August 2016 (UTC) Epson Salts, I see, is still having trouble with reading comprehension. I'll see if I can help them. "Gaming the system means deliberately using Wikipedia policies and guidelines in bad faith to thwart the aims of Wikipedia." Can you explain how my removing a source we both agree is shitty after 24 hours had passed since my last edit on the page was engaging in bad faith? how it thwarted the aims of Wikipedia? No, I didn't think so. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 00:59, 11 August 2016 (UTC) I hate to get side-tracked from the "important issue" here—the fact that Frick and Frack have made up an interpretation of a reversion so ridiculous that, more than 21 hours after this complaint was filed, not a single editor had endorsed it—but anybody who is interested in Kemal Tebaast and their POV pushing is welcome to read my (perfectly civil) discussion with another editor on the subject from last month. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 00:59, 11 August 2016 (UTC) Statement by Johnuniq[edit]There is an ANI report where Kamel Tebaast (talk · contribs) (account created on 30 May 2016) uses perfectly formed procedures. Naturally no one can prove anything except for the obvious: WP:ARBPIA is not working. Johnuniq (talk) 04:50, 10 August 2016 (UTC) Statement by uninvolved Softlavender[edit]Oh good grief there's only one revert in all of those diffs. The rest is normal editing (and by the way, includes refactoring of what were previously WP:BLP violations). I agree with Johnuniq -- the details of that ANI (including especially the numerous findings by Bolter21) are quite damning, and indeed the OP's entire edit history including this AE is pretty telling. Softlavender (talk) 06:05, 10 August 2016 (UTC) Statement by Kingsindian[edit]This is a content dispute, there's no WP:1RR violation here. A note on the wider dispute, since this is quite clearly broader than the small issue here. Kamel Tebaast is a new editor and they have a strong POV, which is fine as long as they remember that editors are allowed to have POV, but articles should be as WP:NPOV as possible. For instance, these two edits to the Israeli West Bank barrier clearly advanced a POV. If they had simply added "security barrier" to the "separation barrier" description, it would have been fine (indeed, the discussion finally converged to this solution). But simply changing the description is not correct. Similarly, Malik was quite right to warn Kamel Tebaast about his POV pushing in the second edit. It was not a "threat": if Kamel Tebaast thinks that his edits were proper, then they have nothing to fear from an WP:AE report, just like Malik replied to Kamel Tebaast and Epson Salts in this particular dispute. In general, Kamel Tebaast seems amenable to reason and willing to compromise, so I see no reason they can't continue to work productively in this area. The veiled accusations of sockpuppetry made against them here and elsewhere should either be backed up with an SPI or discouraged. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 09:38, 10 August 2016 (UTC) Statement by Nishidani[edit]After User:Sepsis II’s ban, which was basically correct, KT appeared to suddenly think he had some mission to extend the verdict given to everyone else he might disagree with, bymaking inquiries at User:The Blade of the Northern Lights’s page re User:Nableezy, User:Zero0000, and User:Nishidani's general approach. He then went after User:Bolter21 , and now has User:MShabazz in his sights. all within a month. Apart from the flurry of attempts to go for other editors, his editing is highly erratic, and demands some control. I saw a news blip re Hank Johnson, checked and found, not a wiki echo but a complete symphonic paragraph (WP:Undue/WP:BLP) ballooned out of it to screw him for antisemitism. my correction for balance immediately met KT's approval, and then was partially reverted the next day with the edit summary WP:ARBPIA3#500/30 (With 48,000 edits in 10 years, I still fail the 500/30 barrier. Bizarre). One remark caught my attention:'Mark the date and time. I believe that this is the first time that I agree with Nishidani.’ This is very odd, for someone who says he's fresh to Wikipedia. Many of the edits are so bad they demand reverting (as here, for patently using poor sources (like this) or failing to exercise careful judgment as he stems the tide of editors who 'wikiwash history' by mentioning an Arab presence in Palestine. I think ARBPIA3#500/30 is a major improvement, and works. It can be gamed, of course. But people who do so will betray their hand pretty quickly if they do so, by, for one, going after editors by making silly edits that demand reversion, and then using those reverts as evidence to get rid of an established editor they dislike, as has occurred here. Nishidani (talk) 09:43, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Epson Salts[edit]For those editors who are having difficulty seeing the 1RR violation: According to WP:ANEW, "Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert." Kamel Tebaast added this line to the article - 'JVP endorsed the platform of The Black Lives Matter movement, which, among other things, accuses Israel of "genocide" ' Malik's first revert, at 13:03, 7 August 2016 , removes the words "among other things, accuses Israel of " and replaces them with his own formulation. That's the first revert, a partial one, which undoes the work of Kamel. Then he does this at 01:45, 8 August 2016 - [55] - a complete revert of my edit, which is revert number 2, and on top of that, at 24 hours plus two minutes from the last revert , he does this [56] - another full revert, of a different editor. If the latter is not a sanction-worthy gaming of the restriction, I don't know what is. (and as I've noted on the article's talk page, while I don't think that the material Malik removed in his last edit comes from a reliable source, there is no exception to 1RR that allows for removing unreliable sources. This is "special pleading" , to allow a 1RR violation to stand because it was a "good edit"). There are other issues involved here, including Malik's taunting (as noted by Kemal) and lack of civility , both in his edit summaries and in the talk page discussion; gross violation of Wikipedia's WP:SYNTH policy; and general edit warring against 3 other editors on that page, which he seems to think he owns - but the above is clear cut enough, I think. (added) Yes Malik, of course in my head, making a third revert 24 hours and 2 minutes after your 2nd one is gaming (which includes, as your own link says, "using the letter of policy to violate the broader principles of the policy."), but that what we're here for - to see what uninvolved administrators and arbitrators thinks about a revert done 2 minutes outside the bright red line. Epson Salts (talk) 00:10, 11 August 2016 (UTC) @Lord Roem: for future reference, could you explain why you found Debresser's 2 edits spaced 24 hours + 2 hours (give or take) on an article subject to 1RR to be , at a minimum, a warning-worthy gaming of the restriction (see your statement here, 2 days ago: [57]), yet Malik's 2 edits, spaced 24 hours + 2 minutes on an article subject to 1RR to not be worthy of a similar warning? Epson Salts (talk) 01:52, 13 August 2016 (UTC) @Lord Roem:I am referring to this sequence of edits:
These two are spread exactly 24 hours and 2 minutes apart - if Debresser's sequence of edits was , in your words, gaming of the 1RR restriction, why isn't this one? Epson Salts (talk) 03:10, 13 August 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Malik Shabazz[edit]
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