Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aberffraw (cantref)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Aberffraw (cantref)

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Stub. Unreferenced since 2010; tagged with notability since last year. Can anyone save this or should be redirect this somewhere (where)? My BEFORE shows some passing mentions but nothing that obviously screams "this is notable, here's the def". House_of_Aberffraw#Aberffraw_hundred_(cantref) seems related, longer, referenced and a possible redirect target? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:11, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Geography, United Kingdom, and Wales. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:11, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to meet WP:POPULATED (eg [1] "South Anglesey was ruled from courts at Aberffraw and Llys Rhosyr") A merge by WP:NOPAGE would make sense but I'm really not confident where to. —siro χ o 03:38, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Aberffraw#Aberffraw cantref (hundred) for now; as ATD, unless the article is subsequently improved like Cantref Arfon and therefore change to keep then. Dank Jae 09:24, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - found some references to Aberffraw as a cantref specifically so that's at least one issue down. Also from what I found, the larger Aberffraw article isn't correct as there were references to it as a cantref at least 200 years prior. Kazamzam (talk) 18:27, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The first source you added is from 18th century. As for the second, I don't see how it meets WP:SIGCOV? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:28, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What's wrong with an 18th century source for 14th century history? --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 21:00, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Old sources are not very reliable. The name or definitions might have changed. It seems I am in minority, but I'd like to see a modern-era SIGCOV treatment of this entity. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for the reasons discussed in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cantref Arfon. The RCAHMW confirms the existence and approximate borders of the Aberffraw cantref.[2] Google Books and Google Scholar show multiple likely sources, and many of the sources cited in Cantref are likely to also discuss this cantref. Verbcatcher (talk) 19:45, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, unnecessary deletion as it has historical merit and connects to the House of Aberffraw article which is relevant.Cltjames (talk) 13:59, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. I'd like to see more opinions reviewing recently added sources to see if they are sufficient to Keep this article. If not, it seems like this should be closed as a Redirect.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:12, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:11, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The source by Henry Rowlands checks out, and is still cited by 21st century scholarship such as Longley 2009 which adds a couple of facts but should probably be read in light of Carr 2011 when it comes to LLifon in 1284. There's probably enough here, and more to say, although the redlinking of the commotes is over-optimistic, I think. It's those that should probably be redirects, to this article. Uncle G (talk) 03:46, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Longley, David (2009). "Gwynedd before and after the Conquest". In Williams, Diane; Kenyon, John R. (eds.). The Impact of the Edwardian Castles in Wales. Oxbow Books. ISBN 9781782973676.
- Carr, A. D. (2011). "Jones Pierce Revisited: The evidence of the Thirteenth and Fourteenth Century extents". In Griffiths, Ralph A.; Schofield, Phillipp R. (eds.). Wales and the Welsh in the Middle Ages. University of Wales Press. ISBN 9780708324479.
Keep Sufficient sources have been found. Acebulf ^{(talk | contribs)} 07:30, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep (changed position from above), sufficient sources found. Dank Jae 12:30, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.