Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert Torrens (soldier)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Good discussion - hopefully we can continue to clarify which Torrens is which. Mojo Hand (talk) 15:29, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Torrens (soldier)

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He sounds quite not notable for me. Someone who is known only for one letter. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 10:53, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 11:03, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. What are you talking about "known only for one letter"? His article says he was a Companion of the Order of the Bath (which is the fourth most senior of the British Orders of Chivalry),he was the British Commissioner to the Convention of Saint-Cloud, and was Adjutant-General in the East Indies. SpinningSpark 17:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Note Hi Spinning, I searched and didn't find any sources for this. I found only this Henry Torrens (British Army officer), who received a Companion of the Order of the Bath. Article can say anything, but it has to be proved by sources. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 13:10, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - I was responding to the deletion rationale which said nothing about sourcing. If it is shown that the article is false, likely false, or misguided then I'll change my vote. But at the moment it is just a case of needing tagging for references. SpinningSpark 13:20, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if any of that has happened here, but JSTOR 2551551 says that the entry under this name in the Dictionary of National Biography confuses this Robert Torrens with his cousin, who has the same name, was born in the same year, and also served in the military. We need to make sure we have disentangled them properly. Phil Bridger (talk) 09:42, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't know if those errors are in this article either, but if he is being talked about in both an Economica article and the Dictionary of National Biography that shows he has some notability. SpinningSpark 11:11, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - The entry in the Dictionary of National Biography is for Robert Torrens (economist), not this Robert Torrens. It just seems that some details are incorrect due to the confusion. Phil Bridger (talk) 11:21, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - And, just to make thinks even more confusing, it seems that Robert Torrens (judge) was another cousin, born a few years earlier, and there were other Robert Torrenses in other generations of this family. Phil Bridger (talk) 11:26, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - It would be so much simpler if everyone was named Bruce. SpinningSpark 11:55, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:36, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:36, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:36, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. This London Gazette page confirms that a Lt Col Robert Torrens of the West India Regiment was awarded the Order of St Anne for his service in the Waterloo campaign. This entry from 1836 refers to a Lt Col Robert Torrens CB. However, there's no indication that this is the same man and I can find no record of anyone by that name being appointed CB. If he did have the CB, then of course he would qualify for an article under WP:ANYBIO, but at the moment there's no concrete evidence of it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:08, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Those references are probably about Robert Torrens (economist). Phil Bridger (talk) 10:14, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so. He didn't have the CB and wasn't an officer in the West India Regiment, but in the Royal Marines (as confirmed by the LG). He also didn't serve in the Waterloo campaign and wasn't promoted lieutenant-colonel until 1819. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:23, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This entry in the Commission Book confirms he had a CB and the military history given is distinctly different from that of the economist (for instance, the economist started in the Royal Marines, our man started in the 19th Dragoons.) So I am definitely still at keep. SpinningSpark 10:35, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This source, which published his Waterloo Letter also says he had a CB—not shown in the snippet I linked, but it says "He was appointed a Companion of the Bath and received the second class of St. Anne of Russia". Note his birth date is given as 1784, not 1780. SpinningSpark 10:51, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I see that I was wrong about your (Necrothesp's) sources. Phil Bridger (talk) 13:05, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per additional research by User:Spinningspark. Now we have two reliable sources that say he had the CB. That satisfies WP:ANYBIO #1. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:28, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.