User talk:ArbDardh

fashë

Hi. Is there a source for this? I do not find the etymology of the Albanian in literature. --Vahag (talk) 09:14, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

I added the Albanian since it’s a cognate to the Greek. If the Greek is cognate to the Armenian, surely then the Armenian is cognate to the Albanian, unless I’ve gotten something wrong? ArbDardh (talk) 10:08, 8 September 2019 (UTC)ArbDardh

@Etimo, is there a source for this edit? --Vahag (talk) 12:12, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

I believe is in çabej, but I don't have the source in front of me..the reconstruction is ok though, it matches Albanian phonetics! Etimo (talk) 16:43, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Albanian

Hey there. You seem to know a little about Albanian. Would you mind checking some of the entries in Category:Tbot entries (Albanian)? If they are correct and complete, you could remove the {{tbot entry}} tag. Thanks --Mélange a trois (talk) 09:09, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Proto-Albanian

Hey ArbDardh, we generally don't reconstruct Proto-Albanian. This is mostly because what point do we even reconstruct? Same goes for Proto-Armenian. --{{victar|talk}} 01:06, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Do not remove an {{rfd}} tag before the report has been resolved. See Wiktionary:Requests_for_deletion/Others#Category:Proto-Albanian_lemmas. --{{victar|talk}} 18:20, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Qerth

context: rfv:qerth
Hi, based on your handle and the fact you edited qerth, I was hoping you'd be able to help me. Another user is currently trying to delete that entry on the basis that he doesn't think it exists (despite it being listed in dictionaries). Anyway, to prove it does, Wiktionary requires no less than three citations. Since the word doesn't appear on the web (not surprising!), it'll have to come from print material. I was hoping you or someone you know could help find a citation (or three). Your help would be appreciated. Torvalu4 (talk) 08:37, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

I’ll see what I can do. ArbDardh (talk) 15:15, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

From what I can quickly gather, some family members did propose a meaning similar to that of those suggested on the page (wood ~ kneading board, the making of a basket ~ hoops, rings), but again had not heard of the word itself. It must be noted that it is quite a specific term though. ArbDardh (talk) 19:33, 15 December 2019 (UTC)ArbDardh

Yeah, which is another factor that makes this harder. If you had to find a word like this, it would be in cooking-related material, things about traditions and folklore, and maybe even woodworking. Who knows, maybe they're sold in a catalog. Also, if the word is regional, then that's another avenue (or restriction...). Thanks for your work so far. Torvalu4 (talk) 20:22, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

thelë

You "strongly doubt" thelë (“slice, segment”) and thelb (“nut kernel”) "would not be related" because, what, they both start with thel-? Sorry, but that's just not enough to connect the two words. If you're going to add etymologies to Albanian words, please including sources. You can find templates for several here: Category:Albanian reference templates. Good luck. --{{victar|talk}} 16:53, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

Category:Tbot entries (Albanian)

Hey. I see you're working a little with Albanian. That's great, as our coverage of terms in that language is pretty poor. If you have time, can you check some entries in Category:Tbot entries (Albanian), which were made by a bot years ago. Viti i Ri would be a good place to start, for example. --ReloadtheMatrix (talk) 12:48, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Will do. ArbDardh (talk) 13:31, 3 January 2020 (UTC)ArbDardh

|t=

Please don't go around removing |t= in favor of |3= for definitions. If you want to use |3=, fine, but using |t= is the prefered parameter, especially for foreign words. --{{victar|talk}} 20:14, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

I’m not quite sure I know what you’re referring to. Can you give me an example edit? ArbDardh (talk) 21:04, 18 February 2020 (UTC)ArbDardh

I'm referring to this edit in particular, which you should have been pinged on. --{{victar|talk}} 01:27, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Usage of {{der}} and {{inh}}

I also need to bring your attention to the usage difference between {{der}} and {{inh}}, as they are not synonymous. Please see T:derived/documentation. --{{victar|talk}} 01:31, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Got it. ArbDardh (talk) 15:50, 19 February 2020 (UTC)ArbDardh

Proto-Albanian sources

ArbDardh, if you're going to add Proto-Albanian reconstructions to descendants list, please add sources. --{{victar|talk}} 17:13, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

The source is literally accessible by just clicking on the descendant, but if you insist... ArbDardh (talk) 17:46, 5 March 2020 (UTC)ArbDardh

About deleting accents

Hey ArbDardh, pls check out the "further readings" part before deleting the accents. Your claim that "albanian has no accents" isn't quite the truth. They exist for a fact. Look up the Albanian Dictionary (link I've posted in every entry that includes these accents, under "further readings") and read/look up Martin Camajs work. Thank you.SKA-KSI (talk) 20:07, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

What you are doing with accents is indicating where the stress is on a word. This is logical, but again is not allowed in Wiktionary. It's like making the word example become exámple. Again, Albanian does not show this stress orthographically, as seen by the alphabet (which contains no letters to indicate stress!). Furthermore, Albanian dictionaries never list an accented word as the actual lemma. It's only when you actually go to (click on) the word where it then uses an accented version to, well, show the stress to help whoever searched it up. So no, we cannot add accents. ArbDardh (talk) 21:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)ArbDardh

Quote: 》'we cannot add accents《.... So, you alone are going to decide for us all? Uhm, excuse me...? Did I miss the part when someone "bought" the rights of Albanian (lang.)? I would appriciate if you would speak for yourself; thus it's not "we" - but "I".

Quote: 》What you are doing with accents is indicating where the stress is on a word. This is logical, but again is not allowed in Wiktionary. It's like making the word example become exámple. Again, Albanian does not show this stress orthographically, as seen by the alphabet (which contains no letters to indicate stress!).《

Meanwhile there are so many books about that topic, a topic which you try to lable as "not important", but yea.

• • G.L. Bevington. Albanian Phonology. Otto Harrassowitz: Wiesbaden, 1974.
  • Paul de Lacy. The formal expression of markedness. PhD thesis, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, 2002.
  • A. Dodi and J. Gjinari. Fonetika, volume II of Fonetika dhe Gramatika e gjuhes¨ se¨sotme letrare Shqipe. Akademia e RPS te Shqiperise, 1983.
  • Michael Kenstowicz. Sonority-driven stress. Ms.,MIT, Rutgers Optimality Archive 33, 1996.
  • Kelly-Lynne Maynard. An optimality analysis of Albanian word stress. In Xingzhong Li, Luis Lopet, and Tom Stroik, editors, Papers from the 1997 Mid-America Linguistics Conference, pages 94–100, 1997.
  • Leonard Newmark, Phillip Hubbard, and Peter Prifti. Standard Albanian. Stanford University Press: Stanford, 1982.
  • Sam Rosenthal and Harry van der Hulst. Weight-by-position by position. NLLT, 17:499–540, 1999.

... So Wiktionary "does not allow it" (according to you). Someone else[*](EDIT: I looked up the name; Chuck Entz) said it's not forbidden - but asked if its's necessary to add them. I ask: why not add them?

Quote: 》Furthermore, Albanian dictionaries never list an accented word as the actual lemma. It's only when you actually go to (click on) the word where it then uses an accented version to, well, show the stress to help whoever searched it up. So no, we cannot add accents.《

• • This part: 》Albanian dictionaries never list an accented word as the actual lemma《 - is de facto a lie. I have four Langenscheidt dictionaries in front of me. Here's what page 27 says: "A: abá; abací; abanóz; abát"... (there's no "aba, abaci, abanoz, abat"). Really, never? Fjalori Shqip is for free (it's still probably the best albanian dictionary that you'll get online.) Langenscheidt isn't for free - but you can buy it online too. You can't click on real books; in my dictionaries there's a list of accented words - as the actual lemma. EDIT: [*]Quoting Chuck Entz 》In such cases, Wiktionary tends to show them in the headword, but not in the name of the entry. That said, the decision on what goes in the entry name and what goes in the headword is usually left for the community of editors working on a specific language to decide.《 I never heard that the "community of editors" decided to not add them. Or do you, ArbDardh, have the permission to decide for the "community of editors" that work on a specific (in this case Albanian) language?SKA-KSI (talk) 02:30, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Borrowings in descendants lists

ArbDardh, when adding borrowings to descendants lists, please place them at the bottom. Only inherited forms belong at the top in alphabetical order. Thanks. --{{victar|talk}} 15:24, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Noted. Thanks for the tip :) ArbDardh (talk) 15:33, 10 June 2020 (UTC)ArbDardh

👍 WT:EL is a good page to bookmark. --{{victar|talk}} 21:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

The "é" in "féndë" and other albanian words...

I appriciate that you correct the layout of my entries and layout of references (trying my best to do it the right way). But I do not appriciate that you countinue to delete my content. You have no right to do that just bc you personally dislike something (in this case mostly the á, é, í, ó & ú).

• About "féndë/fendë/fëndë":
  • The word "fendë" can be written as "féndë" too (I want to point out again that in "Fjalori Shqip" it's also written that way: [1]). This is probably the best albanian dictionary that you'll find online. You may dislike the "é" in "féndë" and just got rid of it - but there's a reason why these exist.

This can be quite helpful to distinguish between two or more words that have the same spelling or pronunciation but different origins/meanings (which I have notices among more than "just few" Tosk/Gheg words btw). Many words are totally mixed up and given the wrong meanings, wrong etymologies.

• • Féndë/Fendë' = meaning silent fart.
  • However, "Fëndë" is how a male name is written. This goes back to "Fandi" (in Gheg: Fani, Fâni, Fên, Fôni, etc. etc.); the name of the Fandi-river (in Albania) - and a tribal name. Since â/ê/etc. are not found in alb./kosovan ID's/Passports you'll find albanian ppl with names like Fan, Fendi, Fenda, Fana, etc., surnames like "Fënda". A person called (example) "Tom Fenda/Fënda" doesn't mean "Tom the Fart" or "Tom the Silent-Fart" - but Tom from (the) Fandi (river/tribe) (... from the RIVER, TRIBE - not coming from an anus).
    • Fëndë and Féndë/Fendë are two total different words with total different meanings/origins. I don't have to create an entry for "féndë", and if - I would have create it as "fendë". But now we have an entry for "fendë". However, it's not fobidden to insert the é's and do it like in all (examples) Serbo-Croatian or Baltic entries (which I did, but you keep deleting them ...).SKA-KSI (talk) 01:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi there again. First of all, I completely understand where you are coming from. Fjalorthi and other websites have added the accents to show stress, and you adding them to Albanian words on Wiktionary is logical.

However:

1. This is not a case of me just not liking it. I am by no means a powerful Wiktionarian with the authority to just say no. Despite this, however, I really must stress that this has not been done before and the consensus around adding the accents is very unclear at the moment. My obvious stance is an oppose, but if you do want to add the accents you have got to ask the wider relevant community about this. In my opinion (which may well be wrong and subjective), I am just reverting your edits because nothing has been agreed upon. We are just two people involved in Wiktionary for Albanian.

2. I'm confused as to why you bring up the distinction between fendë and fëndë. I've never doubted that they were two different words, so their relevance here too is a bit unclear. Tom Fenda would not mean 'silent fart', as you note, but what does this have to do with accents? If you could reiterate the point, I'll get back to you again. ArbDardh (talk) 20:37, 28 July 2020 (UTC)ArbDardh

Quote "I am just reverting your edits because nothing has been agreed upon. We are just two people involved in Wiktionary for Albanian." And you're still going to ignore that nobody has disagreed upon - except you? You don't want them and I want them (that's why I include them). Until now it's 50/50, I don't quite see why you think you would have the "right" to edit and revert them? Remember your own words? "I am by no means a powerful Wiktionarian with the authority to just say no" - yet you say no and get rid of them! "We are just two people involved in Wiktionary for Albanian" - yet you think your opinion is more important than yours. Again: stop boycotting the entries and accebts I have created and included. It's not how you (or I) want them to be - but how the academy want it and they have accents for a reason. Wikipedia does not forbid them. I already told you about the accents & co. but you still refuse to recognize that your claim wasn't based on facts. Finally stop with your stubborness, I am really tried of your unnecessary edits considering the accents. You're wasting not only my time but also your own time. I am still very thankful for the edits that are needed (typos, formatting). Accents are no typos.SKA-KSI (talk) 17:09, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

"Most headword-line templates also provide a parameter named |head=, which allows other editors override this default display, in case this is desired (for example, if additional accent marks should be displayed on the headword)." I want to remind you that I include the accents in the headword and not in the name of the entry.SKA-KSI (talk) 18:09, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

SKA-KSI, I hear everything you're saying. However, one must note that accents have never been part of Albanian entries. That is why I revert your edits - new additions are being made while nothing has been agreed as of yet. As for the headline guideline you've highlighted, it is wholeheartedly valid, but again, let us discuss the addition of accents for Albanian entries first. The guide certainly says you can add them, but gives no indication whether this applies to all languages, so in my eyes it doesn't yet for Albanian. I could start doing the same for English, but nothing is in place for that, or at least there has in fact been a debate on it; I am not sure. Please take this to the relevant section so we can figure this out once and for all. I'll do some research myself to see what we can do, and how to set up such a proposal - I am still admittedly relatively inexperienced in the wider Wiktionary world. ArbDardh (talk) 18:30, 12 August 2020 (UTC)ArbDardh

Your eyes are your eyes and you lack to see everything from a different perspective (besides that you completly ignore what the alb.academy says about that). Finally get over yourself, we don't own albanian. I don't add the accents in the entry, but the way it's allowed. It's no crime, it's not forbidden. But now you're trully getting outta control with all your reverts. This is the last time I will tell you to fianlly stop reverting my edits. Don't you realize that you're reverting fixed typos too????? Leaving typos insted of fixing them; that's what you're doing here. You are wasting my time for no reason. Get another hobby, because I am really tired of you chasing all my entries, edits and reverting them for fun. Why don't you contribute something neccessary (f.e. create entries and add references for your etymologies) to Wiktionary instead of reverting other editors entries? Since you refuse to cooperate and just went on an revert rant - why don't you stop discussing with me about this accent topic? It took you weeks to reply to my message, but now since you started again reverting my entries you decided to write messages. I see no reason to go back and forth with you, especially since you do whatever you want and do it how it suits you personally. I don't think that constant reverting is some sort of "cooperating". As I already mentioned, I am not bothered by the accents, but you are. So find someone who shares your opinion. We can discuss later if you find a proposal, another idea - as reverting is clearly not helpful at all.SKA-KSI (talk) 19:21, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

@Calthinus, @Fay Freak, @Kwékwlos - could you read the thread and possibly suggest what can we do going forward? Can @SKA-KSI convert their argument into an Wiktionary discussion? Simply put, I'm unsure what to do right now. I've tried reasoning by offering my view on the whole situation, but I don't think we've made progress. To sort this out once and for all, I again think SKA-KSI needs to start a proper discussion. ArbDardh (talk) 19:38, 12 August 2020 (UTC)ArbDardh

As someone who knows Albanian as an L2, accents are pretty useful to have. Most Albanian-as-L2 textbooks use them for dictionary entries. That said, we would not want to give the impression that Albanian is ever actually written that way.... --Calthinus (talk) 15:56, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

As one has informed me that one actually expects a reply from me here, I state here that regarding Albanian acute marks used in dictionaries but not in daily orthography to mark stress, I think their presence in headers is an improvement, since as far as I am informed the stresses are not easily guessed. But it may be that I do not understand the lengthy argument wholly. „Never been present” is hardly an argument, if the anterior state is disadvantageous. Fay Freak (talk) 17:35, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

My argument was less about "never been present" than it was about "never been present because nothing has ever been agreed". Does that help? Nevertheless, I note the weakness of it anyway. ArbDardh (talk) 19:20, 17 August 2020 (UTC)ArbDardh

Gheg variants for "dëshiroj"

Hello,

can the phonetically unclear Gheg verb "dshiroj" as variant for dëshiroj also be written as "xhiroj" because of the assimilation of the affricate to the voiced consonant? I can almost only imagine it like that but I found solely "dshiroj". Maybe you have a possibility to ask other Gheg speakers. HeliosX (talk) 20:23, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

I think in terms of could it be, yes, it could, but I find it highly unlikely anyone would actually write it as such except potentially in casual [slang]. Do note that "dsh" would be hard to pronounce, as you mention, but I think there are two possibilities here, the first being 1) "dsh" > "xh", but also just simply 2) keeping it as "dësh" because of "dsh"'s difficulty; being Gheg myself, I would not say "xhiroj" is not possible, but I actually seem to hear "deshiroj" more, an illustrious third option to add onto the last 2; instead of "dësh" > "dsh", "dësh" > "desh" in order to solve the reduction problem. ArbDardh (talk) 11:37, 2 February 2022 (UTC)ArbDardh

Adding Proto-Albanian terms to PIE pages and cognate lists

I think before you start adding Proto-Albanian terms to PIE pages and cognate lists, you should attempt to source the Albanian etymology first. Case in point, hirrë, which we discussed on my talk page, and now fuqi, for which I added an etymology. Really, unless a PA term has a solid etymology, the link to be nulled out. Having two competing PA entries for the same descendant would be bad form. --{{victar|talk}} 06:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

New Albanian entries

Could you please check and complete two Albanian entries (vendosje, vetëvendosje) that I have created? Thanks a lot. --Akletos (talk) 17:09, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for adding them! ArbDardh (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2021 (UTC)ArbDardh

Albanian entries

Hey, could you check some of Lumbardhia's edits? I have noticed that he's adding a Proto-Celtic origin to random terms and I've found edits which misuse Orel (2000) as in the case of z-.--Maleschreiber (talk) 11:16, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Hey there, and yes, I've noticed that too. I'll be sure to sort them out when I can. ArbDardh (talk) 11:31, 2 February 2022 (UTC)ArbDardh

Duplicate entries: thërrmoj and thërmoj

It seems like one of these should be listed as an alternativ form of the other? In any case their relation should be noted. ᛙᛆᚱᛐᛁᚿᛌᛆᛌ ᛭ Proto-Norsing ᛭ Ask me anything 20:13, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

I suspect the single -r- form is a variant of the double thërrmoj given how the verb seems to be based on the noun thërrime; *thërrime-oj > *thërrimoj > *thërrëmoj > thërrmoj. Thanks for the heads up. ArbDardh (talk) 20:41, 8 April 2022 (UTC)ArbDardh

New word

Hi! Could you have a look at this page I've just created: qëlloj? I've reported Orel's etymology for qëlloj, but I am not quite sure about what he wrote after:

MEYER Wb. 225 (from Rom *cellāre); LAMBERTZ KZ LII 66 (to qell); ÇABEJ St II 62-63 (follows LAMBERTZ). FierakuiVërtet (talk) 21:43, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm asking you because I noted you are quite active on Albanian etymos.

Yep, just taken a look: mostly fine formatting here, just remember to use the proper templates for etymology. As for Orel including others' derivations, that's just his style, though we (admittedly I) don't usually include/reference them through his work; if you would like to add those to the page, you'll need to add separate citations (though I can't recall that this has been done with many Albanian entries citing Orel). ArbDardh (talk) 23:23, 3 September 2022 (UTC)ArbDardh

Etymology

Hi! Sorry to bother you again... I noted that the etymology of vesë was deleted and I wonder of this could help [2]. Is there anyway to check this source without buying the whole paper? FierakuiVërtet (talk) 04:46, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

[3] FierakuiVërtet (talk) 04:46, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I odokët

Më fal, po "i odokët" vjen nga o- > *a- (parashtesë mohuese) dhe dok-ët, nga dukë, dukje, shih latinisht doceo, greqisht δοκέω. Kosovarët ende sot thonë "po m'doket" në vend të "po më duket". Ο- është po ajo parashtesë mohuese që ka dhënë e-sull. Nuk e them unë, e thotë Gjon Gazulli dhe Kolec Topalli. ShockedSkater (talk) 19:40, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

kushtrim

Nga "kush â trim", kështu e shpjegon edhe Kolec Topalli. Kështu që ktheji pak editimet. ShockedSkater (talk) 20:29, 5 November 2022 (UTC)