Why do some people think it's ok to vape indoors?

TaurenDruid

So, as the thread title says - why do some vapers/e-cigarette users think it's fine to vape indoors, at public venues like pubs, venues, cinemas, etc?

I mean, they all have signs up saying don't do it, it's not allowed. But you go into somewhere like the National Concert Hall, and there's a big, visible, cloud of vape smoke hanging in the air. I was in the 3 Arena the other night, and while it wasn't as bad, there were a good few vaping away all through the gig.

As an ex-smoker who used to have to wait it out for a few hours when going to a gig or a film, me and my mates did just that - we waited until we could get outside for a smoke. What's up with vapers and their constant need to get their hit?!

endacl

Read the room. I wouldn’t vape in the cinema, where I don’t know if somebody might or mightn’t have an issue with the harmless 2nd hand water vapour. I would in my local, where even though it’s technically not allowed, even the staff do.

AllForIt

I think it should be allowed to vape indoors in pubs and nightclubs. Restaurants where ppl are eating - maybe not. But it seems daft to me that one can't vape in a pub.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Always vape in the pub. Not into people’s faces. Away from everyone. Most people do, I don’t see anyone going outside to vape. Wouldn’t do it in a restaurant or cinema or anywhere like that.

leche solara

endacl wrote: »

Read the room. I wouldn’t vape in the cinema, where I don’t know if somebody might or mightn’t have an issue with the harmless 2nd hand water vapour. I would in my local, where even though it’s technically not allowed, even the staff do.

The smoking in the workplace ban refers to tobacco products only, and the legislation makes no reference to vaping, so technically vaping is not prohibited. Some pubs have chosen to ignore this technicality and treat cigarette smoking and vaping in the same way and ban both. Other pubs are more enlightened and know the difference and allow vaping to go on. Dublin Bus regularly make announcements on their buses that ecigarettes are not allowed on the bus. This should, of course be ecigarettes are not allowed to be used on the bus. This is down to laziness on their part and that is a common trait with that particular company. But this is not the place to talk about the many shortcomings of Dublin Bus.

TaurenDruid

AllForIt wrote: »

I think it should be allowed to vape indoors in pubs and nightclubs. Restaurants where ppl are eating - maybe not. But it seems daft to me that one can't vape in a pub.

Maybe because the people a few feet away don't want a sudden cloud of bubblegum-flavoured air hovering over them?

jonski

TaurenDruid wrote: »

So, as the thread title says - why do some vapers/e-cigarette users think it's fine to vape indoors, at public venues like pubs, venues, cinemas, etc?

You get dicks in all walks of life .

Orion

My initial reaction was why would you think this was the right forum to have a rant about vaping.
Then I took a step back and realised it's a perfectly valid question for this forum

I have multiple answers. As a smoker who was off them for a few years and ended up back on them I now vape and smoke. I smoke very little at home. I work from home and vape all day. Watching TV with the wife I vape. Then I go to the pub and I'm pushed outside with the smokers so I smoke there more than anywhere else.

I can understand pubs/cinemas/etc banning vaping because of cloud chasers. I have an Aegis with a Valerian tank running at .3 ohms which gives off a massive plume. I use that at home, in the car, out walking, everywhere but in the pub. I bought a wee Pasito one that hides in my hand and a barely visible cloud off it which I now use in the pub. And in the cinema. In the RDS and Aviva at matches. And actually in the NCH last week too - nobody even noticed.

It's all about consideration for other people. My Aegis cloud is visible from the ISS. My Pasito is not intrusive and as the juice I use is mostly menthol not even an unpleasant smell if anyone even notices.

Esel

Orion wrote: »

... the juice I use is mostly menthol not even an unpleasant smell if anyone even notices.

OT, but I thought menthol specifically is contraindicated for vaping? It has recently been banned from cigarettes AFAIK.

Orion

Nope. It has not been banned and is not contraindicated. There has been talk of banning menthol cigs and flavoured vape juice. But nothing actually introduced. Nor should it be. They are talking about it to stop kids vaping. You know the same way they stopped kids smoking for all those years.

Also OT - if they do I'll buy mine abroad and get in here any way necessary. I do not want tobacco flavoured juice - for me that defeats the purpose.

feelthepower

The only place I vape is a pub and its always in a corner well away from people.

If its busy I just go outside. Don't be a prick.

TinCool

feelthepower wrote: »

The only place I vape is a pub and its always in a corner well away from people.

If its busy I just go outside. Don't be a prick.

I don't vape in my local as the landlord doesn't allow it. I couldn't care less. I'd rather sit there and drink my pint. I take a couple of tokes in the bog. It wouldn't even cross my mind to vape at the cinema, restaurant or at a gig etc. I'm never hanging for a vape like it was with the fags, but generally I don't vape where you can't smoke.

TaurenDruid

Orion wrote: »

I bought a wee Pasito one that hides in my hand and a barely visible cloud off it which I now use in the pub. And in the cinema. In the RDS and Aviva at matches. And actually in the NCH last week too - nobody even noticed.

It's all about consideration for other people. My Aegis cloud is visible from the ISS. My Pasito is not intrusive and as the juice I use is mostly menthol not even an unpleasant smell if anyone even notices.

Nah. We notice. Including in the RDS and Aviva. And it is intrusive. Most people just don't want to create a scene or get potential aggro. It is all about consideration. So please don't do this, it's not ok.

The thing about being in the company of someone smoking a cigarette is that they'll generally be conscious of it and make an attempt to keep the smoke away from you.

Whereas with a vape they tend to carry on as normal, puffing away and exhaling as if it was a normal breath.

Shinobollo

This conversation is missing one very important fact.

Smoking indoors in pubs, clubs, workplace etc is illegal and for very good reason - second hand smoke causes cancer.
Vaping indoors is legal. In fact all studies to date that have investigated the effects of second hand vape state that second hand vape is harmless.

I don't agree with people blowing huge plumes of vape around in enclosed public spaces but thought it worth reminding contributors to this thread of the difference between vaping and smoking.

If we ban vaping indoors because some vapes smell of bubblegum or menthol, will the wearing of perfume, aftershave and deodorant be next ? Should we ban mints and chewing gum or my personal pet hate "Red Bull" too ?

greenttc

You do still wonder about the effects of second hand vape though. There may be studies done to say it is harmless but who commissioned the studies? Vaping indoors is legal but at once point smoking indoors was legal too, just because something is legal, it doesn't mean its okay. My main concern would be exposing my children to it, i cant protect them from every air pollutant but I think people need to be responsible and not create unnecessary unfavorable conditions particularly in public places like cinemas and restaurants.

Hellrazer

Im with the majority here - you dont blow huge clouds around a place where its not welcome.
Personally I use my main mod when Im in the car,outside etc but if Im going to a pub I use my pod which gives out little or no (okay a lot less) vapour.

My local doesnt allow vaping but will usually only stop those blowing massive clouds around. Ive never been asked to stop with the pod as I dont take the piss so to speak.

Common sense prevails to be honest.

Orion

Shinobollo wrote: »

If we ban vaping indoors because some vapes smell of bubblegum or menthol, will the wearing of perfume, aftershave and deodorant be next ? Should we ban mints and chewing gum or my personal pet hate "Red Bull" too ?

And egg sandwiches on trains. There is a special place in hell reserved for those people.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im with the majority here - you dont blow huge clouds around a place where its not welcome.
Personally I use my main mod when Im in the car,outside etc but if Im going to a pub I use my pod which gives out little or no (okay a lot less) vapour.

My local doesnt allow vaping but will usually only stop those blowing massive clouds around. Ive never been asked to stop with the pod as I dont take the piss so to speak.

Common sense prevails to be honest.

Yup, same. Switch from my cloud one to a smaller t20s coil and there’s little or no clouds off it. I’ve seen one of the barmen in my local ask someone to stop vaping at the bar as he was blowing big clouds everywhere. I’ve never been asked to stop, normally a quick puff and blow whatever little comes out downwards. I doubt anyone even notices I’m doing it.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Orion wrote: »

And egg sandwiches on trains. There is a special place in hell reserved for those people.

McDonalds on the bus has to be the worst.

FrancieBrady

What 'clouds'? It's vapour, it dissipates almost immediately.

Over reaction is over reaction.

TaurenDruid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What 'clouds'? It's vapour, it dissipates almost immediately.

Over reaction is over reaction.

Nah, it doesn't. Seriously. Really noticeable in some places - the National Concert Hall was the most obvious I've seen, a literal fug just hanging in the air (and the band weren't using dry ice, so it wasn't that!) but also very noticable in big enclosed spaces like the Savoy and The Point.

Calibos

Orion wrote: »

Nope. It has not been banned and is not contraindicated. There has been talk of banning menthol cigs and flavoured vape juice. But nothing actually introduced. Nor should it be. They are talking about it to stop kids vaping. You know the same way they stopped kids smoking for all those years.

Also OT - if they do I'll buy mine abroad and get in here any way necessary. I do not want tobacco flavoured juice - for me that defeats the purpose.

Menthol/flavoured cigarettes are banned from May. Don't be surprised if Vaping is next. Wont affect me. Never liked sweet flavours anyway. Tobacco flavours all the way for me. Then again, given the way wine snobs ****e on about the nutty undertones or vanilla hints blah blah, i’m sure vape companies Can get around a non tobacco flavour ban by renaming their vanilla dessert as a Virginia Tobacco Blend with vanilla undertones blah blah.

Orion

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What 'clouds'? It's vapour, it dissipates almost immediately.

Over reaction is over reaction.

Not true. My big mod generates a huge cloud when I use a coil less than .5 ohms. I mean massive. Currently have a .8ohm coil in it and it's still a big cloud. It doesn't dissipate all that fast at all.

My small mod barely generates any noticeable cloud at all and what it does disappears in seconds.

Orion

Calibos wrote: »

Menthol/flavoured cigarettes are banned from May. Don't be surprised if Vaping is next. Wont affect me. Never liked sweet flavours anyway. Tobacco flavours all the way for me. Then again, given the way wine snobs ****e on about the nutty undertones or vanilla hints blah blah, i’m sure vape companies Can get around a non tobacco flavour ban by renaming their vanilla dessert as a Virginia Tobacco Blend with vanilla undertones blah blah.

Oh right - people who don't use tobacco flavour are snobs? I don't want tobacco flavour juice. And if they do ban flavoured juice I'll import it. Just because you're happy with tobacco flavour don't assume everyone is.

The only people any ban will impact is reputable vendors. It won't impact disreputable ones where you have no idea what the ingredients are. They'll get around it. And reputable vendors will lose out to people like me as well who will import menthol juice.

KungPao

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Maybe because the people a few feet away don't want a sudden cloud of bubblegum-flavoured air hovering over them?

Better than the stinking farts hanging in the air tbh.

Or body odour.

Or the aroma of just plain ****/cabbage!/halitosis from some people.

Vapers are doing us a favour!

Esel

Orion wrote: »

Not true. My big mod generates a huge cloud when I use a coil less than .5 ohms. I mean massive. Currently have a .8ohm coil in it and it's still a big cloud. It doesn't dissipate all that fast at all.

My small mod barely generates any noticeable cloud at all and what it does disappears in seconds.

Serious question - what is the point of a massive (or big) cloud? It seems like a big waste to me. I cannot envisage any benefit to the user. I mean, how much more of a hit do you get doing that in reality?

Nothing personal, but when I see anyone puffing like a steam train I just think "What a dick!" Even more of a dick when they blow that massive cloud at the floor/ground instead of upwards, which at least shows some consideration for others.

By the way, I am not anti-vaping. I think it is a much healthier alternative to smoking. I do think, however, that non-users would be much more tolerant if it wasn't for these massive exhalation clouds.

Esel

Esel wrote: »

Serious question - what is the point of a massive (or big) cloud? It seems like a big waste to me. I cannot envisage any benefit to the user. I mean, how much more of a hit do you get doing that in reality?

Nothing personal, but when I see anyone puffing like a steam train I just think "What a dick!" Even more of a dick when they blow that massive cloud at the floor/ground instead of upwards, which at least shows some consideration for others.

By the way, I am not anti-vaping. I think it is a much healthier alternative to smoking. I do think, however, that non-users would be much more tolerant if it wasn't for these massive exhalation clouds.

I think it's the same as people who have overly loud cars, for example. They think the 'big cloud of smoke' makes them cool, whilst everyone in their presence rolls their eyes and looks at them like the attention-seeking child they are.

Orion

Esel wrote: »

Serious question - what is the point of a massive (or big) cloud? It seems like a big waste to me. I cannot envisage any benefit to the user. I mean, how much more of a hit do you get doing that in reality?

Nothing personal, but when I see anyone puffing like a steam train I just think "What a dick!" Even more of a dick when they blow that massive cloud at the floor/ground instead of upwards, which at least shows some consideration for others.

By the way, I am not anti-vaping. I think it is a much healthier alternative to smoking. I do think, however, that non-users would be much more tolerant if it wasn't for these massive exhalation clouds.

For me it's not so much the cloud it's the flavour. Sub-ohming which generates a large cloud by its nature also gives a greater flavour from the juice. Also it's a direct hit generally - as in you can feel it in your throat - more than a "softer" hit that is the mouth-to-lung vape.

The lower the ohm the higher the wattage and that generates cloud. Some people are cloud chasers who want a big cloud. I'm not one of them - it's the flavour I'm after. But bigger flavour generally means bigger cloud.

That said my small mod has two options - MTL ( 5-15W) or DTL (20-25W) - I use DTL coils and run it at 20W. As opposed to my big mod which I can run at up to 70-80 watts depending on what coil I put in it (my current coil is 0.8 and I'm running at 35W). The little one gives a great flavour with little cloud so much so that's rapidly becoming my favoured one even at home.

Orion

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it's the same as people who have overly loud cars, for example. They think the 'big cloud of smoke' makes them cool, whilst everyone in their presence rolls their eyes and looks at them like the attention-seeking child they are.

MOD NOTE
Not even remotely true and if your only point is to slag off vaping then you're in the wrong forum

jonski

Esel wrote: »

when they blow that massive cloud at the floor/ground instead of upwards, which at least shows some consideration for others.

Odd thing ( or maybe just a lack on intelligence on my behalf ) about the vapour from ecigs , it doesn't behave like smoke . Blow it up and it falls back down so blowing it towards the floor might actually be better . Its actually kind of annoying when you are trying to do the right thing and not blow it around someone else ...you stand to their right and blow the vapour away from them and it ends up covering them so you stand to their left and try blowing it away from them and ...nope , still finds it's way back ....sob . Same goes in the car, when I used to smoke, if I was driving at anything over around 20mph it would be sucked out the window alongside me ...not vapour, oh no, that doesn't particularly like going outside it would prefer to go across and annoy my wife ...sob .

Orion

Esel wrote: »

Nothing personal, but when I see anyone puffing like a steam train I just think "What a dick!" Even more of a dick when they blow that massive cloud at the floor/ground instead of upwards, which at least shows some consideration for others.

Meant to address this too. Vapour is actually heavier than air. So blowing it up just means it spreads and then sinks. Blowing down means it stays there. So people tho blow it at the floor are actually being more considerate.

jonski

Orion wrote: »

Meant to address this too. Vapour is actually heavier than air. So blowing it up just means it spreads and then sinks. Blowing down means it stays there. So people tho blow it at the floor are actually being more considerate.

Well you could have posted this before I wrote an essay on it in the post above yours with my two finger typing . Maybe you should show a bit of consideration for slow typers .....oh look, typers isn't a word ....well it should be .

Orion

Orion wrote: »

MOD NOTE
Not even remotely true

OK, go on then. Explain the benefits.

Esel wrote: »

Serious question - what is the point of a massive (or big) cloud?

Shinobollo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

OK, go on then. Explain the benefits.

7 years vaping and not a single bronchial infection Vs 2 per year minimum when smoking!

Shinobollo

Shinobollo wrote: »

7 years vaping and not a single bronchial infection Vs 2 per year minimum when smoking!

.. the benefits of blowing a large cloud out..

jonski

Deleted User wrote:

OK, go on then. Explain the benefits.

The benefits of the large cloud are when it's going in ( big nicotine hit ) , it just has to come back out again . Also depending on the device it can really enhance the flavour .

TaurenDruid

Shinobollo wrote: »

7 years vaping and not a single bronchial infection Vs 2 per year minimum when smoking!

Anecdote is not data.

TaurenDruid

jonski wrote: »

The benefits of the large cloud are when it's going in ( big nicotine hit ) , it just has to come back out again . Also depending on the device it can really enhance the flavour .

Big nicotine hit? Ok, it's vapour, not smoke, but you'd hardly notice the smoke from some smokers, outdoors, getting presumably the same nicotine hit from their Johnny Blue or Marlboro Light as the steamtrain puffing along up the road and visible for 200 metres.

iamtony

Didn't read the whole thread but I just wanted to let yis know vaping can set off fire alarms. I found this out the hard way when I set of an alarm in a hotel jax and got the whole hotel evacuated:o

On the plus side I was a living legend to the people I was in the bar with(who I told) as they gave free drink in the bar for the rest of the night.

ironclaw

I don't vape but for what it's worth, just because the cloud has dissipated, does not mean it's not present and/or harmful. The chemical composition is still in the surrounding atmosphere albeit being continuously diluted. It doesn't just disappear or become benign when it dissipates. By that logic, car emissions are harmless once they are a few inches from the exhaust.

FrancieBrady

ironclaw wrote: »

I don't vape but for what it's worth, just because the cloud has dissipated, does not mean it's not present and/or harmful. The chemical composition is still in the surrounding atmosphere albeit being continuously diluted. It doesn't just disappear or become benign when it dissipates. By that logic, car emissions are harmless once they are a few inches from the exhaust.

You'd wanna look into stopping others breathing, sweating, farting etc in your immediate vicinity and general direction too. Maybe stay at home in a hermetically sealed box like that guy on Better Call Saul?

Shinobollo

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Anecdote is not data.

Anecdote - definition -an account regarded as unreliable or hearsay.

Safe to say that my evidence is not anecdotal. I can verify it as I was there 😛

jonski

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Big nicotine hit? Ok, it's vapour, not smoke, but you'd hardly notice the smoke from some smokers, outdoors, getting presumably the same nicotine hit from their Johnny Blue or Marlboro Light as the steamtrain puffing along up the road and visible for 200 metres.

Sorry, I'm not understanding your point here . If it's outdoors is it the visibility that bothers you ? If you I am vaping something that is emitting big clouds then I take 2 maybe 3 puffs and it goes back in my pocket, thats enough nic for me . Maybe other are puffing constantly but that would be unusual.

ironclaw wrote: »

I don't vape but for what it's worth, just because the cloud has dissipated, does not mean it's not present and/or harmful. The chemical composition is still in the surrounding atmosphere albeit being continuously diluted. It doesn't just disappear or become benign when it dissipates. By that logic, car emissions are harmless once they are a few inches from the exhaust.

Any recent studies that I have seen seem to suggest that it is harmless to secondhand people . ( Thats probably not the correct term, I mean it's not like secondhand smoke if you get me ) More studies will be done in the coming years and obviously fresh air is the best thing for your lungs. It might keep people off cigarettes and as a side effect kills off a chunk of the cigarette industry , so it can't all be bad

TaurenDruid

jonski wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not understanding your point here . If it's outdoors is it the visibility that bothers you ? If you I am vaping something that is emitting big clouds then I take 2 maybe 3 puffs and it goes back in my pocket, thats enough nic for me . Maybe other are puffing constantly but that would be unusual.

The visibility - and the activity - bothers me indoors. I guess I've no choice but to put up with it outdoors. But no, my point was how come such a huge cloud of vapour is needed to get the same nicotine hit as someone used to be able to get from an ordinary cigarette. I guess if it's all coming from a couple of blasts as opposed to 5 minutes of smoking an ordinary cigarette the volumes would be roughly equal, though.

Any recent studies that I have seen seem to suggest that it is harmless to secondhand people . ( Thats probably not the correct term, I mean it's not like secondhand smoke if you get me ) More studies will be done in the coming years and obviously fresh air is the best thing for your lungs. It might keep people off cigarettes and as a side effect kills off a chunk of the cigarette industry , so it can't all be bad

What studies? Conducted by whom, published where, and what were the sample sizes? Tobacco industry studies used to claim that smoking and nicotine were good for you, then that they were harmless, and that they were certainly harmless for secondary smokers...

Thecageyone

I'm vaping 7 years now, and I have never vaped indoors besides my own home. I don't know any other vapers who do this either. I use the smoking areas in bars/restaurants or I go outside, I don't vape in anyone else's car, I tend not to 'blow clouds' in the midst of people, in fact I rarely vape while walking and I never vape in someone else's house - even if they say it's ok, I'll pop out to the garden [if they are non vapers/smokers especially]

Not every vaper blow huge clouds btw, there's such a thing as mouth-to-lung vaping and this has become popular again [thankfully] - there's no more 'cloud' than you'd see from cigarette smoke and I personally would much rather walk into this than the smoke that is for sure. I believe second hand vape is harmless, the worst thing you will experience is a fruity scent! the nicotine from vapour is quickly absorbed and all that is exhaled is left over Glycerine and flavoring. This is what I believe to be true, but I do realise not everyone is convinced, but like I say, I never bother anyone else with my vaping. It irritates me as a vaper to see those who do blow huge clouds out in public because it gives vaping a bad rep.

Esel

Thecageyone wrote: »

Not every vaper blow huge clouds btw, there's such a thing as mouth-to-lung vaping and this has become popular again [thankfully] - there's no more 'cloud' than you'd see from cigarette smoke and I personally would much rather walk into this than the smoke that is for sure..

Can you clarify a bit here please?

Is it that regular vapers do mouth-to-lung (like a regular smoker) and 'cloud' vapers use a straight inhalation (like normal breathing)?

jonski

Esel wrote: »

Can you clarify a bit here please?

Is it that regular vapers do mouth-to-lung (like a regular smoker) and 'cloud' vapers use a straight inhalation (like normal breathing)?

Pretty much , the vast majority of vapers use a MTL type device like the vape pens you see around .

Thecageyone

Esel wrote: »

Can you clarify a bit here please?

Is it that regular vapers do mouth-to-lung (like a regular smoker) and 'cloud' vapers use a straight inhalation (like normal breathing)?

Originally all vaping was done mouth to lung - you'll see vapers refer to 'mtl' vaping, it is the basic form. It's much like you would smoke a cigarette, you draw to mouth, before inhaling. Direct lung came about with sub ohm [coils below the 1 ohm level] - this is where you draw direct to your lungs like you would puff on an inhaler. I guess that's about the best way I can describe it. MTL vaping is really only possible or comfortable with hgher resistance coils. 1ohm or above, you get less vaper and often you up the nic level to suit.

LeBash

endacl wrote: »

Read the room. I wouldn’t vape in the cinema, where I don’t know if somebody might or mightn’t have an issue with the harmless 2nd hand water vapour. I would in my local, where even though it’s technically not allowed, even the staff do.

I vaped my brains out in the cinema last night.

Sat well away from everyone but never seen the cinema as an issue and now that 2 people have mentioned it, I'll be all self conscious next time.

kippy

Shinobollo wrote: »

This conversation is missing one very important fact.

Smoking indoors in pubs, clubs, workplace etc is illegal and for very good reason - second hand smoke causes cancer.
Vaping indoors is legal. In fact all studies to date that have investigated the effects of second hand vape state that second hand vape is harmless.

I don't agree with people blowing huge plumes of vape around in enclosed public spaces but thought it worth reminding contributors to this thread of the difference between vaping and smoking.

If we ban vaping indoors because some vapes smell of bubblegum or menthol, will the wearing of perfume, aftershave and deodorant be next ? Should we ban mints and chewing gum or my personal pet hate "Red Bull" too ?

Completely irrelevant.
The owner of the premises has the right to ban vaping on their premises whether this is backed up by law or not.
Smoking and indeed second hand smoke wasn't found to be harmful for decades.