Some people may remember that I did a rollup last week of 40k Radio's look inside the codex. Well they released the second part, so I did another one. It's on Talk Wargaming again:

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marines-roll-up-special_29.html

Plenty of information there to drool over there. Like the Relics, and a more indepth look into some of the codex options and changes.

Thank you very much for your efforts.

For clarification;

Does the Assault Squad follow C: DA for options (2 special weapons at 5 man) and is the Sergeant limited to the Melee wargear (No combi-weapons)?

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Thank you very much for your efforts.

For clarification;

Does the Assault Squad follow CA for options (2 special weapons at 5 man) and is the Sergeant limited to the Melee wargear (No combi-weapons)?

You're welcome!

40k Radio didn't say what the limit was, so I'm guessing that it's the same as now, 1 per 5. And they didn't say that the Sergeant could take combi-s just melee wargear and the pistol options.

Glad I haven't purchased the Badab War books yet.

Thanks for posting.

Seriously looking forward to fielding all my LotD models.

Thank you so much for all the work you've done for this release! I am stoked about LOTD! Now I can field mine. Cheers.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Thank you very much for your efforts.

For clarification;

Does the Assault Squad follow CA for options (2 special weapons at 5 man) and is the Sergeant limited to the Melee wargear (No combi-weapons)?

You're welcome!

40k Radio didn't say what the limit was, so I'm guessing that it's the same as now, 1 per 5. And they didn't say that the Sergeant could take combi-s just melee wargear and the pistol options.

Sounds like they might have realized the obnoxious 105 pt drop pod triple flamer template combo in C: DA. Would've been even more brutal with the Sally's CT.

Although, the massive point reduction on HG and LOTD seems to be overkill. 145 pts for a plasma, combi-plasma and plasma cannon that can deep strike safely and ignores cover is pretty strong too. Change Plasma to Melta and change the cost to 135, just as brutal.

Did they mention whether LOTD have Chapter Tactics?

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Thank you very much for your efforts.

For clarification;

Does the Assault Squad follow CA for options (2 special weapons at 5 man) and is the Sergeant limited to the Melee wargear (No combi-weapons)?

You're welcome!

40k Radio didn't say what the limit was, so I'm guessing that it's the same as now, 1 per 5. And they didn't say that the Sergeant could take combi-s just melee wargear and the pistol options.

Sounds like they might have realized the obnoxious 105 pt drop pod triple flamer template combo in C: DA. Would've been even more brutal with the Sally's CT.

Although, the massive point reduction on HG and LOTD seems to be overkill. 145 pts for a plasma, combi-plasma and plasma cannon that can deep strike safely and ignores cover is pretty strong too. Change Plasma to Melta and change the cost to 135, just as brutal.

Did they mention whether LOTD have Chapter Tactics?

LotD does not. Their shooting attacks Ignore Cover instead. I'd call that a good trade.

I think GW is trying to balance things out so that no matter what you want to run in this book that it's all playable, and that's awesome. I really think that, at least internally, the book is well balanced and nothing strikes me as being so good you NEED it or so bad you NEVER take it. I love it!

ClockworkZion wrote:
LotD does not. Their shooting attacks Ignore Cover instead. I'd call that a good trade.

I think GW is trying to balance things out so that no matter what you want to run in this book that it's all playable, and that's awesome. I really think that, at least internally, the book is well balanced and nothing strikes me as being so good you NEED it or so bad you NEVER take it. I love it!

Agreed on both.

Honor Guard being so cheap is pretty ridiculous though, you pay 11 pts over a tac marine and you get 2+ and a power weapon. Balanced by the limited numbers and lack of scoring, but still a powerful unit.

Was there ever any clarification on the Emperor's Champion's Black Sword being S6 base, or only S6 on the two handed grip?

Wow, the EW storm shield is cheaper than I thought it would be. I can see a lot of people giving it to a Chapter Master w/Artificer Armor (200 points even if my math is right).

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Wow, the EW storm shield is cheaper than I thought it would be. I can see a lot of people giving it to a Chapter Master w/Artificer Armor (200 points even if my math is right).

It fits, as the old adamantine mantle was 35 and SS are 15.

You're right, but that's without a weapon.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Wow, the EW storm shield is cheaper than I thought it would be. I can see a lot of people giving it to a Chapter Master w/Artificer Armor (200 points even if my math is right).

It fits, as the old adamantine mantle was 35 and SS are 15.

You're right, but that's without a weapon.

and give him a bike make him t5 on top of it. Sounds like a good option to me.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Wow, the EW storm shield is cheaper than I thought it would be. I can see a lot of people giving it to a Chapter Master w/Artificer Armor (200 points even if my math is right).

It fits, as the old adamantine mantle was 35 and SS are 15.

You're right, but that's without a weapon.

I know, buts its a good place to start. Some weapons I can already see people additionally taking:

Bike and Relicblade/Thunderhammer

Powerfist & Lightning Claw - wait nevermind, wont get extra CC cause of shield.

Just a Relicblade or Thunderhammer

woohoo!!!
so excited for the White Dwarf tomorrow...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
woohoo!!!
so excited for the White Dwarf tomorrow...

cheers
jah

I have to wait two more days! Then another week and a half for the SM Codex! All this hurry up and wait is killing me!

 SickSix wrote:
Glad I haven't purchased the Badab War books yet.

Thanks for posting.

Seriously looking forward to fielding all my LotD models.

What's up with the Badab War books? Did I miss something or did someone edit their post mentioning them? I was thinking about dusting off my stalled Carcharodons marines project and breathing new life into them next month.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Wow, the EW storm shield is cheaper than I thought it would be. I can see a lot of people giving it to a Chapter Master w/Artificer Armor (200 points even if my math is right).

It fits, as the old adamantine mantle was 35 and SS are 15.

You're right, but that's without a weapon.

I'm interested to see if a character with the special armour and the special bolter can justify its cost, on the face of it 5 S4 AP4 Shredding rounds with a reroll to hit every turn sounds like it could do all sorts of horrible things to the squishier sorts of infantry, especially if it keeps the 24" range of a normal boltgun, but even on a Captain that's mucho points.

So 6 outflanking LSS with assault cannon and blinding large blast are going to be 390 points?

Just wow.


Guess what future tournament lists are going to spam

Sure they die to interceptor, but at 65 point a piece, who cares?

Polecat wrote:
So 6 outflanking LSS with assault cannon and blinding large blast are going to be 390 points?

Just wow.


Guess what future tournament lists are going to spam

Sure they die to interceptor, but at 65 point a piece, who cares?

Meh, DA still have them beat, they can take up to 15 LS. Hmm, really don't see why more people do that...

Polecat wrote:
So 6 outflanking LSS with assault cannon and blinding large blast are going to be 390 points?

Just wow.


Guess what future tournament lists are going to spam

Sure they die to interceptor, but at 65 point a piece, who cares?

BS3 and AV10 Open top with 2HP means they're really not going to do all that much damage.

For 10 pts more you can get a normal speeder Typhoon.

Love the relics... so tempting to blow so many points

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
LotD does not. Their shooting attacks Ignore Cover instead. I'd call that a good trade.

I think GW is trying to balance things out so that no matter what you want to run in this book that it's all playable, and that's awesome. I really think that, at least internally, the book is well balanced and nothing strikes me as being so good you NEED it or so bad you NEVER take it. I love it!

Agreed on both.

Honor Guard being so cheap is pretty ridiculous though, you pay 11 pts over a tac marine and you get 2+ and a power weapon. Balanced by the limited numbers and lack of scoring, but still a powerful unit.

Was there ever any clarification on the Emperor's Champion's Black Sword being S6 base, or only S6 on the two handed grip?

Dont forget, the banner that honour guard can carry make them scoring.

 davou wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
LotD does not. Their shooting attacks Ignore Cover instead. I'd call that a good trade.

I think GW is trying to balance things out so that no matter what you want to run in this book that it's all playable, and that's awesome. I really think that, at least internally, the book is well balanced and nothing strikes me as being so good you NEED it or so bad you NEVER take it. I love it!

Agreed on both.

Honor Guard being so cheap is pretty ridiculous though, you pay 11 pts over a tac marine and you get 2+ and a power weapon. Balanced by the limited numbers and lack of scoring, but still a powerful unit.

Was there ever any clarification on the Emperor's Champion's Black Sword being S6 base, or only S6 on the two handed grip?

Dont forget, the banner that honour guard can carry make them scoring.

Meh, nice and all, but if your honor guard aren't assaulting something, you're doing it wrong...

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Polecat wrote:
So 6 outflanking LSS with assault cannon and blinding large blast are going to be 390 points?

Just wow.


Guess what future tournament lists are going to spam

Sure they die to interceptor, but at 65 point a piece, who cares?

BS3 and AV10 Open top with 2HP means they're really not going to do all that much damage.

For 10 pts more you can get a normal speeder Typhoon.

Normal speeders can't outflank, they cost more, and they take a FA slot away from Stormtalons.

Sure LSS dies easily, but the fact that they are so cheap, pack a good firepower/utility and don't take a FOC slot makes them good.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
LotD does not. Their shooting attacks Ignore Cover instead. I'd call that a good trade.

I think GW is trying to balance things out so that no matter what you want to run in this book that it's all playable, and that's awesome. I really think that, at least internally, the book is well balanced and nothing strikes me as being so good you NEED it or so bad you NEVER take it. I love it!

Agreed on both.

Honor Guard being so cheap is pretty ridiculous though, you pay 11 pts over a tac marine and you get 2+ and a power weapon. Balanced by the limited numbers and lack of scoring, but still a powerful unit.

Was there ever any clarification on the Emperor's Champion's Black Sword being S6 base, or only S6 on the two handed grip?

Dont forget, the banner that honour guard can carry make them scoring.

Meh, nice and all, but if your honor guard aren't assaulting something, you're doing it wrong...

Why sould scoring prevent the assaulting? The banner also makes em better at assault.

 davou wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
LotD does not. Their shooting attacks Ignore Cover instead. I'd call that a good trade.

I think GW is trying to balance things out so that no matter what you want to run in this book that it's all playable, and that's awesome. I really think that, at least internally, the book is well balanced and nothing strikes me as being so good you NEED it or so bad you NEVER take it. I love it!

Agreed on both.

Honor Guard being so cheap is pretty ridiculous though, you pay 11 pts over a tac marine and you get 2+ and a power weapon. Balanced by the limited numbers and lack of scoring, but still a powerful unit.

Was there ever any clarification on the Emperor's Champion's Black Sword being S6 base, or only S6 on the two handed grip?

Dont forget, the banner that honour guard can carry make them scoring.

Meh, nice and all, but if your honor guard aren't assaulting something, you're doing it wrong...

Why sould scoring prevent the assaulting? The banner also makes em better at assault.

What banner makes them scoring?

 davou wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
LotD does not. Their shooting attacks Ignore Cover instead. I'd call that a good trade.

I think GW is trying to balance things out so that no matter what you want to run in this book that it's all playable, and that's awesome. I really think that, at least internally, the book is well balanced and nothing strikes me as being so good you NEED it or so bad you NEVER take it. I love it!

Agreed on both.

Honor Guard being so cheap is pretty ridiculous though, you pay 11 pts over a tac marine and you get 2+ and a power weapon. Balanced by the limited numbers and lack of scoring, but still a powerful unit.

Was there ever any clarification on the Emperor's Champion's Black Sword being S6 base, or only S6 on the two handed grip?

Dont forget, the banner that honour guard can carry make them scoring.

Meh, nice and all, but if your honor guard aren't assaulting something, you're doing it wrong...

Why sould scoring prevent the assaulting? The banner also makes em better at assault.

Dang you;re right, I thought you DIDNT get the +1 attack with the relic one, my bad.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
LotD does not. Their shooting attacks Ignore Cover instead. I'd call that a good trade.

I think GW is trying to balance things out so that no matter what you want to run in this book that it's all playable, and that's awesome. I really think that, at least internally, the book is well balanced and nothing strikes me as being so good you NEED it or so bad you NEVER take it. I love it!

Agreed on both.

Honor Guard being so cheap is pretty ridiculous though, you pay 11 pts over a tac marine and you get 2+ and a power weapon. Balanced by the limited numbers and lack of scoring, but still a powerful unit.

Was there ever any clarification on the Emperor's Champion's Black Sword being S6 base, or only S6 on the two handed grip?

Dont forget, the banner that honour guard can carry make them scoring.

Meh, nice and all, but if your honor guard aren't assaulting something, you're doing it wrong...

Why sould scoring prevent the assaulting? The banner also makes em better at assault.

What banner makes them scoring?

Ahhhh, damn you are right... I read 'the unit counts as scoring' rather than finishing the sentence and seeing '...counts as scoring one more wound' lol

Okay, I may have read the options on the chapter master wrong but...

Can they take special weapons? As in plasma guns or meltaguns?

Also, the flame sword relic + the storm shield + Arti armour... Brutal!

Is it me, or have the points gone up to crazy levels for Marines?

A lot of the stuff just screams unusable because of the points imo.

Marine armies are going to look tiny on the board.

Or is that because I just picked up SW and everything is uber cheap by comparison.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Also, the flame sword relic + the storm shield + Arti armour... Brutal!

That was my first thought..on a Bike, with IH CT...

But my Eldar playing friend claims that they can only use one relic per army to prevent such combos. Would expect the same with SM

Do the new heavy vehicles have skyfire?

Puscifer wrote:
Is it me, or have the points gone up to crazy levels for Marines?

A lot of the stuff just screams unusable because of the points imo.

Marine armies are going to look tiny on the board.

Or is that because I just picked up SW and everything is uber cheap by comparison.

Almost everything got cheaper.

Keeping everything the same, my list dropped from 2k on the dot to 1870. 130 pts for free. I also traded army wide stubborn for both the BT and IF chapter tactics in each detachment, respectively.

C: SM made out really well with this book.

 CKO wrote:
Do the new heavy vehicles have skyfire?

Yes, but not Interceptor.

Marshal on bike with super-Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer and Artificier Armour. Loyalist Juggerlord in the making?

If I have the points correctly, a Chapter Master with the Relic Burning Blade, EW SS, and AA will cost 255pts. But he will be all but impossible to kill, and will wreck anything he assaults except maybe Gargantuan Creatures and AV 14.

Couple him with a unit of Honor Guard all with relic blades... *drool*

Damnit, Iron Hands players are going to get so much undeserved abuse because of the bandwagoneers using our Tactics with this Codex.

Put that character on a Bike and make him an Iron Hand, Ferrum, and he'll have four wounds, T5, 2+/3++/6+++, Adamantium Will, Eternal Warrior, and IWND.

It almost doesn't matter what weapons you give him at that point, I doubt anything short of a Titan will be able to put him down.

The HG army is starting to look amazing.

Trying to resist the urge to make all my Space Wolf sprues into HG.

Even if you can only have one relic, the burning blade seems to be the better option, just take a normal storm shield as you will be able to murder most things before they strike back - well not most things but a lot, obviously keep him out of the way of MC's but most other things, ouch, with an honour guard kitted with relic blades a termie TH/SS squad are going to go down like flies, he will take out on average 3 a turn I'd imagine and the honour guard will pull the other two down from forcing them to make so many armour saves.

Land raider them up as a delivery system and I'm confident they would out deathstar most.

Can someone math hammer the burning blade + SS + AA chapter master vs the Relic SS + TH + AA + Bike chapter master, that would be quite the clash of the titans.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Damnit, Iron Hands players are going to get so much undeserved abuse because of the bandwagoneers using our Tactics with this Codex.

Put that character on a Bike and make him an Iron Hand, Ferrum, and he'll have four wounds, T5, 2+/3++/6+++, Adamantium Will, Eternal Warrior, and IWND.

It almost doesn't matter what weapons you give him at that point, I doubt anything short of a Titan will be able to put him down.

That is very tempting, good thing I'm set on Salamanders. And really, those stats (minus the bike, FNP, and IWND) are what I would expect from Sally CM Tu'Shan anyhow

Dreadnoughts don't get chapter tactics? Is this because of something in the lore?

Relics aren't looking too bad

I think the Second one will take it.

Concussive is a boon in that fight. Also the added mobility of the bike.

Only thing is the HG will tear anything a new a-hole, where as the bikes are nothing but ablative wounds.

Horseshoes and Hand Grenades.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Damnit, Iron Hands players are going to get so much undeserved abuse because of the bandwagoneers using our Tactics with this Codex.

Put that character on a Bike and make him an Iron Hand, Ferrum, and he'll have four wounds, T5, 2+/3++/6+++, Adamantium Will, Eternal Warrior, and IWND.

It almost doesn't matter what weapons you give him at that point, I doubt anything short of a Titan will be able to put him down.

That is very tempting, good thing I'm set on Salamanders. And really, those stats (minus the bike, FNP, and IWND) are what I would expect from Sally CM Tu'Shan anyhow

Give it a command squad, on bikes, with storm shields with a mix of power weapons and fists. The apoth would give a better FNP... Librarian on a bike following them boosting them.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Even if you can only have one relic, the burning blade seems to be the better option, just take a normal storm shield as you will be able to murder most things before they strike back - well not most things but a lot, obviously keep him out of the way of MC's but most other things, ouch, with an honour guard kitted with relic blades a termie TH/SS squad are going to go down like flies, he will take out on average 3 a turn I'd imagine and the honour guard will pull the other two down from forcing them to make so many armour saves.

Land raider them up as a delivery system and I'm confident they would out deathstar most.

Can someone math hammer the burning blade + SS + AA chapter master vs the Relic SS + TH + AA + Bike chapter master, that would be quite the clash of the titans.

If can take both the Sword and the Shield, he can go toe to toe with Abbadon and win, and could even give a biomacied Swarmlord a far fight...

Assuming the Burning Blade CM doesn't burn himself, he'd probably win against a TH CM, as he'd strike first while wounding on 2's the first turn. If it's down to only one Relic, though, I'd probably take the SS. If he's not EW there's quite a few things out there that could actually kill him. Force Weapons, Daemon MCs smashing, Vindicators, that sort of thing. If you're going to make a monster beatstick CM you might as well make sure he doesn't die to an enemy just because they Smashed you to pieces with one lucky wound.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Even if you can only have one relic, the burning blade seems to be the better option, just take a normal storm shield as you will be able to murder most things before they strike back - well not most things but a lot, obviously keep him out of the way of MC's but most other things, ouch, with an honour guard kitted with relic blades a termie TH/SS squad are going to go down like flies, he will take out on average 3 a turn I'd imagine and the honour guard will pull the other two down from forcing them to make so many armour saves.

Land raider them up as a delivery system and I'm confident they would out deathstar most.

Can someone math hammer the burning blade + SS + AA chapter master vs the Relic SS + TH + AA + Bike chapter master, that would be quite the clash of the titans.

If can take both the Sword and the Shield, he can go toe to toe with Abbadon and win, and could even give a biomacied Swarmlord a far fight...

Abaddon strikes first and has a Daemon weapon. The current Lysander falls over to Abaddon and so would that Chapter Master, he just doesn't have the sheer volume of attacks that Abaddon does.

"The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table, is destroyed or is engaged in close combat."

Flyers can't be engaged in close combat. Why would that be there?

 NickTheButcher wrote:
"The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table, is destroyed or is engaged in close combat."

Flyers can't be engaged in close combat. Why would that be there?

FMC when they land.

 NickTheButcher wrote:
"The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table, is destroyed or is engaged in close combat."

Flyers can't be engaged in close combat. Why would that be there?

Fliers and FMCs...

Puscifer wrote:

 NickTheButcher wrote:
"The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table, is destroyed or is engaged in close combat."

Flyers can't be engaged in close combat. Why would that be there?

FMC when they land.

Ahh very nice. Didn't think of that (Don't play against them all that often)

They should have made it follow the MC even if it landed, could have made it do a special blast attack when it hits a ground target, just for the cool factor of the MC thinking, well if it's going to hit me, it can hit a load of my targets as well.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
They should have made it follow the MC even if it landed, could have made it do a special blast attack when it hits a ground target, just for the cool factor of the MC thinking, well if it's going to hit me, it can hit a load of my targets as well.

It does follow the FMC if it lands, it just won't fly into Close Combat.

Just noticed that all companies but the assault company has been taken down from gw, but they're are being released again with c:sm. im guessing this means that they've put the tanks back in, as it now comes to €600ish.

Don't if anyone else knew this, or if it really means much, but it could make getting a whole chapter a lot easier (or just buy one for €10000!!)

Also there are gunna be a lot of releases this month!!!

A friend of mine, and former visitor to Dakka Dakka wanted to make a Space Marine army based on the Eternian Guard from He Man and have his Chapter Master riding a giant cat.

I might steal his idea.

These SW sprues have He Man's head on them and I don't think people would mind if I used a Thunderwolf as a homage to the cartoon character and use him as a Chapter Master on a bike.

Puscifer wrote:
A friend of mine, and former visitor to Dakka Dakka wanted to make a Space Marine army based on the Eternian Guard from He Man and have his Chapter Master riding a giant cat.

I might steal his idea.

These SW sprues have He Man's head on them and I don't think people would mind if I used a Thunderwolf as a homage to the cartoon character and use him as a Chapter Master on a bike.

Why not use the mount of the recent Mantic release....

 Vain wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
A friend of mine, and former visitor to Dakka Dakka wanted to make a Space Marine army based on the Eternian Guard from He Man and have his Chapter Master riding a giant cat.

I might steal his idea.

These SW sprues have He Man's head on them and I don't think people would mind if I used a Thunderwolf as a homage to the cartoon character and use him as a Chapter Master on a bike.

Why not use the mount of the recent Mantic release....

Spoiler:

That's amazing!!!

Thanks for that.

One thing that weirds me out a little though...

It looks exactly like my WoW Paladin on his Golden King mount.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also... that price...

Ohhhhhh that oh so lovely price.

Land Speeder Storm
Now a dedicated transport for Scouts
-5 point reduction
May replace Heavy Bolter with free Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta for 5 points less, Assault Cannon for 15 points less
Jamming Beacon now makes models that are in range roll twice the number of scatter dice that distance they normally would
Cerberus Launcher: 18" S2, AP-, Heavy 1, Large Blast, Blind


Burning Blade: S+3, AP2, Melee, Blind, Incandescent Same cost as a Razorback with Extra Armor
Incandescent: At the end of an Assault Phase in which the bearer made a successful to-hit roll with the Burning Blade roll a D6. On a roll of a 2+ nothing happens. On a roll of a 1 the bearer takes a S4, AP2 hit.


Suck it necrons

For those wondering, Burning Brand and standard storm shield will lose to Thunder Hammer and standard storm shield every time. Both weapons will be causing unsaved wounds at the same rate per attack, with a slight advantage to the sword. The problem is it only takes one unsaved wound from the TH without the EW SS.

The Brand vs TH is a tough call, and they're pretty even, although I'd favor the TH if I'm running a Chapter Master with the EW SS. The Brand would be a strong choice on a captain with a bolt pistol to kill terminators while the CM duels characters.

Brand
+Strike at Init
+Blind
+Extra attack
-Far more expensive
-Incadescent
-Lose extra attack with SS

TH
+ID to T4
+Concussive
-Strike at I1
-Cheaper

Things to consider -
S7 IDs T3, but most things T3 will strike before I5 anyways.

Striking at the same time as several MCs is nice, but a successful TH wound accomplishes the same thing, and also works against higher I.

TH additional S helps to wound MCs with IA and Vehicles, you also gain the shaken bonus against vehicles.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Even if you can only have one relic, the burning blade seems to be the better option, just take a normal storm shield as you will be able to murder most things before they strike back - well not most things but a lot, obviously keep him out of the way of MC's but most other things, ouch, with an honour guard kitted with relic blades a termie TH/SS squad are going to go down like flies, he will take out on average 3 a turn I'd imagine and the honour guard will pull the other two down from forcing them to make so many armour saves.

Land raider them up as a delivery system and I'm confident they would out deathstar most.

Can someone math hammer the burning blade + SS + AA chapter master vs the Relic SS + TH + AA + Bike chapter master, that would be quite the clash of the titans.

If can take both the Sword and the Shield, he can go toe to toe with Abbadon and win, and could even give a biomacied Swarmlord a far fight...

Abaddon and the Swarmlord would still both walk all over him.
CM would deal .84 wound a turn to Abbadon.
Figuring +3 from his Daemon weapon, Abbadon averages ~1.7 wounds (Harder to math out with Preferred Enemy)
Abaddon rolls a 1 or a 6, makes a very large difference. The sheer number of dice he can throw in his favor makes up for the reliability of a 3++. On top of that, Abby has the WS advantage and preferred enemy.

Swarmlord without IA/WS
CM would deal .66 wound a turn to SL.
SL would deal ~2 wounds a turn to CM.
SL gives himself Preferred Enemy, and forces rerolls on successful saves. Warp Speed and Iron Arm (Or enfeeble) all make this even more one sided.

Truth is, the CM is not going to touch any of the really broken CC characters, but they'll be able to walk through a lot of stuff.

The burning brand can charge into a unit of wraiths + a Dlord and as long as it doesn't get coiled it strikes at I and all the wraiths + the Dlord have to make a blind test.

Forget about the swarm lord, it's best to shoot him.

 schadenfreude wrote:
The burning brand can charge into a unit of wraiths + a Dlord and as long as it doesn't get coiled it strikes at I and all the wraiths + the Dlord have to make a blind test.

Forget about the swarm lord, it's best to shoot him.

The Thunder Hammer CM can charge into a unit of Wraiths, tank their attacks and ID them with S8. I'd rather have them dead than blinded, myself.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
The burning brand can charge into a unit of wraiths + a Dlord and as long as it doesn't get coiled it strikes at I and all the wraiths + the Dlord have to make a blind test.

Forget about the swarm lord, it's best to shoot him.

The Thunder Hammer CM can charge into a unit of Wraiths, tank their attacks and ID them with S8. I'd rather have them dead than blinded, myself.

He will kill one a turn. Maybe two the turn the charges. He won't kill anything if the DLord tanks his attacks. 3++ is best beat by weight of attacks.

4 attacks without master crafted is not a lot. The BT trait helps for challenges.

The sword may be better in this situation just to allow his I4 buddies the chance to hit on 3s and be hit on 5s.

IH librarian, with a burning brand, bike, + SS + AA (if available) with either warp speed or iron arm...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've re-read the wargear options a few times now, and I am getting the impressions that independent character can't buy a normal storm shield unless they are in termie armour, it is only in the termie wargear section....

Puscifer wrote:
Is it me, or have the points gone up to crazy levels for Marines?

A lot of the stuff just screams unusable because of the points imo.

Marine armies are going to look tiny on the board.

Or is that because I just picked up SW and everything is uber cheap by comparison.

What rumours are you reading? The ones we've been reading the last few weeks say everything pretty much got cheaper.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Is it me, or have the points gone up to crazy levels for Marines?

A lot of the stuff just screams unusable because of the points imo.

Marine armies are going to look tiny on the board.

Or is that because I just picked up SW and everything is uber cheap by comparison.

What rumours are you reading? The ones we've been reading the last few weeks say everything pretty much got cheaper.

It just seems expensive.

I'm not a Marine player, but they seem pricey for what you get.

CT balance this out though.

And They Shall Know No Fear is worth a few points I reckon over other races.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
II've re-read the wargear options a few times now, and I am getting the impressions that independent character can't buy a normal storm shield unless they are in termie armour, it is only in the termie wargear section....

I'm hoping that is incorrect or incomplete, considering Captains can currently swap out their Bolt Pistols for Storm Shields.

ephrael wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
Glad I haven't purchased the Badab War books yet.

Thanks for posting.

Seriously looking forward to fielding all my LotD models.

What's up with the Badab War books? Did I miss something or did someone edit their post mentioning them? I was thinking about dusting off my stalled Carcharodons marines project and breathing new life into them next month.

Very end of the roundup I included a reply from FW where they state that there will be an FAQ for the Marine characters of theres, but there isn't a timeline on when.

I think Autocannon Predators just became redundant. The Stalker costs the same, is about as survivable, shoots ground targets almost as well and provides air defence.

 Vain wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
II've re-read the wargear options a few times now, and I am getting the impressions that independent character can't buy a normal storm shield unless they are in termie armour, it is only in the termie wargear section....

I'm hoping that is incorrect or incomplete, considering Captains can currently swap out their Bolt Pistols for Storm Shields.

40k Radio didn't say everything, because they were focusing on what changed, but if they have access to them they should still have access to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NickTheButcher wrote:
Dreadnoughts don't get chapter tactics? Is this because of something in the lore?

More likely because their vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Perfect Organism wrote:
I think Autocannon Predators just became redundant. The Stalker costs the same, is about as survivable, shoots ground targets almost as well and provides air defence.

Stalker shoots ground targets at BS1 unless their skimmers so the value of that is really based on your meta more than straight numbers I think.

 Vain wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
II've re-read the wargear options a few times now, and I am getting the impressions that independent character can't buy a normal storm shield unless they are in termie armour, it is only in the termie wargear section....

I'm hoping that is incorrect or incomplete, considering Captains can currently swap out their Bolt Pistols for Storm Shields.

DA ones do, so I would hazard a guess and say that C:SM will keep them or even better just go like DA did and not even replace your pistol.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Vain wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
II've re-read the wargear options a few times now, and I am getting the impressions that independent character can't buy a normal storm shield unless they are in termie armour, it is only in the termie wargear section....

I'm hoping that is incorrect or incomplete, considering Captains can currently swap out their Bolt Pistols for Storm Shields.

40k Radio didn't say everything, because they were focusing on what changed, but if they have access to them they should still have access to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NickTheButcher wrote:
Dreadnoughts don't get chapter tactics? Is this because of something in the lore?

More likely because their vehicles.

Good point.

They still don't really stand out as something I'll be bringing in my lists very often. Unless I missed something in the rumors, they don't really seem to bring much to the table.

How are people liking the suprer chainsword? Will it have any use?

(Also: why was the last thread closed?)

Dwindling OT I think, you could always just PM Alpharius and ask him though.

Can someone clarify this for me?

It said in this rumor update that Vanguard Vets come standard with Storm Shields. Is this true, or did I read it wrong? If so, whats the point cost for a basic Vanguard Veteran? Might be worth it if they come with shields standard.

MadmanMSU wrote:
Can someone clarify this for me?

It said in this rumor update that Vanguard Vets come standard with Storm Shields. Is this true, or did I read it wrong? If so, whats the point cost for a basic Vanguard Veteran? Might be worth it if they come with shields standard.

I've not seen that said anywhere. They're 19 PPM base (pistol/chainsword), 22 with jump pack.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:
Can someone clarify this for me?

It said in this rumor update that Vanguard Vets come standard with Storm Shields. Is this true, or did I read it wrong? If so, whats the point cost for a basic Vanguard Veteran? Might be worth it if they come with shields standard.

I've not seen that said anywhere. They're 19 PPM base (pistol/chainsword), 22 with jump pack.

Ah, thanks. I found it again, it was quoted wrong on Faeit. My mistake.

Also, it says they are -1 ppm. Wouldn't that make them 24 base, not 19?

 Crimson wrote:
How are people liking the suprer chainsword? Will it have any use?

(Also: why was the last thread closed?)

I like it. It's a relic blade, with a few perks, and the price isn't crazy high. Speaking of which, now that we have actual relics, do we still get the old relic blades?

I'm a firm believer in the boys before toys philosophy, where I'd rather have more boots on the ground then some tricked out, blinged up characters. As such, some of the relic prices make me gag. The bolter and chainsword look not bad, and I might find a place for the others in specific situations.

This wasn't posted yet, right?

A lot of WD pics.

do we still get the old relic blades

I think so.People are talking about loading HG with Relic Blades to go alongside a Chapter Relic(s) bearing CM.

Hang on a minute...

If Dreads don't get CT, doesn't it mean that the IH CT and it's IWND rule for vehicles be useless?

Puscifer wrote:
Hang on a minute...

If Dreads don't get CT, doesn't it mean that the IH CT and it's IWND rule for vehicles be useless?

Probably not, as the IH Chapter Tactics explicitly says that it affects all the vehicles as well.

Anyone intending to run a tooled-out Chapter Master with a tooled-out unit of Honour Guard might want to rethink; it'd be a hilarious amount of overkill. Put the CM somewhere else and have two big threats instead of one gargantuan threat.

MadmanMSU wrote:
Also, it says they are -1 ppm. Wouldn't that make them 24 base, not 19?

Uh.... considering a vanguard veteran currently costs 20, no, no it wouldn't. It's not that hard to account for the fact that in the current base squad the sergeant costs 45 while others are 20, yet no one ever seems to

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Hang on a minute...

If Dreads don't get CT, doesn't it mean that the IH CT and it's IWND rule for vehicles be useless?

Probably not, as the IH Chapter Tactics explicitly says that it affects all the vehicles as well.

Anyone intending to run a tooled-out Chapter Master with a tooled-out unit of Honour Guard might want to rethink; it'd be a hilarious amount of overkill. Put the CM somewhere else and have two big threats instead of one gargantuan threat.

Ahhh, thanks for that.

Also... I agree with the splitting up of the CM and HG.

MadmanMSU wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:
Can someone clarify this for me?

It said in this rumor update that Vanguard Vets come standard with Storm Shields. Is this true, or did I read it wrong? If so, whats the point cost for a basic Vanguard Veteran? Might be worth it if they come with shields standard.

I've not seen that said anywhere. They're 19 PPM base (pistol/chainsword), 22 with jump pack.

Ah, thanks. I found it again, it was quoted wrong on Faeit. My mistake.

Also, it says they are -1 ppm. Wouldn't that make them 24 base, not 19?

They're currently 20 base, and the Jump packs are sold seperately.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Perfect Organism wrote:
I think Autocannon Predators just became redundant. The Stalker costs the same, is about as survivable, shoots ground targets almost as well and provides air defence.

Stalker shoots ground targets at BS1 unless their skimmers so the value of that is really based on your meta more than straight numbers I think.

The Stalker gives you the option of four twin-linked shots at BS1 or eight shots at BS1 split between two targets vs. the Predator's two shots at BS4. That's almost the same number of hits on average, even when it's firing snap shots. Against skimmers, the stalker is significantly better and against aircraft it's obviously far superior. Even if your opponent doesn't field any fliers or skimmers, it's still an OK light tank. The only real advantage the predator has is the ability to be upgraded.

 tvih wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:
Also, it says they are -1 ppm. Wouldn't that make them 24 base, not 19?

Uh.... considering a vanguard veteran currently costs 20, no, no it wouldn't. It's not that hard to account for the fact that in the current base squad the sergeant costs 45 while others are 20, yet no one ever seems to

I don't think of them that way, since you have to buy a sergeant in the base troop cost. Currently, you don't have the option of JUST buying a vet, you HAVE to buy the sergeant, so to say they are currently 20ppm is misleading, to my mind.

That said, are they moving to the DA codex style, where its a cost to upgrade the sergeant? I suppose what I'm asking is, whats the base cost of the initial 5 man unit?

Is there a benefit to take MSU Tactical Squads with a Special Weapon in each?

MadmanMSU wrote:

 tvih wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:
Also, it says they are -1 ppm. Wouldn't that make them 24 base, not 19?

Uh.... considering a vanguard veteran currently costs 20, no, no it wouldn't. It's not that hard to account for the fact that in the current base squad the sergeant costs 45 while others are 20, yet no one ever seems to

I don't think of them that way, since you have to buy a sergeant in the base troop cost. Currently, you don't have the option of JUST buying a vet, you HAVE to buy the sergeant, so to say they are currently 20ppm is misleading, to my mind.

That said, are they moving to the DA codex style, where its a cost to upgrade the sergeant? I suppose what I'm asking is, whats the base cost of the initial 5 man unit?

It's not misleading when extra Vanguard Vets were 20 points a model before Jump Packs.

ClockworkZion wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:

 tvih wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:
Also, it says they are -1 ppm. Wouldn't that make them 24 base, not 19?

Uh.... considering a vanguard veteran currently costs 20, no, no it wouldn't. It's not that hard to account for the fact that in the current base squad the sergeant costs 45 while others are 20, yet no one ever seems to

I don't think of them that way, since you have to buy a sergeant in the base troop cost. Currently, you don't have the option of JUST buying a vet, you HAVE to buy the sergeant, so to say they are currently 20ppm is misleading, to my mind.

That said, are they moving to the DA codex style, where its a cost to upgrade the sergeant? I suppose what I'm asking is, whats the base cost of the initial 5 man unit?

It's not misleading when extra Vanguard Vets were 20 points a model before Jump Packs.

You cannot, in the 5th edition codex, buy a vanguard squad where each model is 20ppm. It's not possible. Which is why I was confused. That's all I'm trying to say.

My question is: whats the base cost of the Vanguard Vet squad in the new codex?

I was thinking of that; Crusader Squads could potentially have a 5-man squad in a Drop Pod with a special weapon, combi-weapon and 2 Power Weapons/Fists. Sure, it'd cost a fair bit, but even if you scaled it back, a special, combi and PW would only be 155 points with a Drop Pod (assuming Plasma Gun for 15 points and that the Sword Brother will cost 10 points to upgrade to). If you add 50 points you'll get 5 meatshields in as well. 205 points for 10 scoring bodies with a hidden Power Weapon, a special weapon and a Combi-weapon that can Deep Strike pretty much anywhere is a pretty solid start. Even if you take 4 of those units it's only 820 points, and you'll have Troops sorted. You'll have 40 scoring bodies and 950 points left to spend (assuming 1750 obviously), and you don't have to Drop Pod your Troops in first if you take stuff like Sternguard, Honour Guard or Ironclad Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods as well.

Am I the only one stoked about being able to take Command Squads with HQ choices other than Captains? I like Plasma Command Squads, and their biggest drawbacks were access to a worse banner (which they can now take the Relic one) and being limited to Captains). They seem a lot better now that I can snag one with a cheap Libby.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
Am I the only one stoked about being able to take Command Squads with HQ choices other than Captains? I like Plasma Command Squads, and their biggest drawbacks were access to a worse banner (which they can now take the Relic one) and being limited to Captains). They seem a lot better now that I can snag one with a cheap Libby.

Stick them with Tig for the Div re-rolls? Seems good.

That relic bolter will be rather nice on a bike or terminator character.

That's one of the uses I was thinking, ya.

MadmanMSU wrote:
My question is: whats the base cost of the Vanguard Vet squad in the new codex?

I honestly don't know, it was never said.

There has been no word whether single character can take multiple relics, right?

 Crimson wrote:
There has been no word whether single character can take multiple relics, right?

Not yet. I assume it's like the other books though.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
There has been no word whether single character can take multiple relics, right?

Not yet. I assume it's like the other books though.

Like the other books where some let you and some don't?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
There has been no word whether single character can take multiple relics, right?

Not yet. I assume it's like the other books though.

Like the other books where some let you and some don't?

I don't have the other 6th edition books memorized yet . I'd assume it'll be like the DA.

What does everyone think of CT: Imperial Fists compared to the other CTs?

I have no Devs and not sure on the Centurions yet to benefit from Tank Hunters. BUT, I am a little happy about Scouts being cheaper and the Storm being a dedicated transport now. All my Scouts are kitted with Boltguns so the Bolter Drill makes them more useful. I was kind of hoping they would keep Stubborn though.

Any thoughts on the changes to Lysander? I'm not impressed with his built-in banner or the loss of bolster defenses (not that I used it much anyway). I'm curious if taking a Chapter Master in TDA with Thunderhammer and the Relic Stormshield might compete with him now? I'm not keen on all the new point differences maybe someone can chime in?

Edit: As far as I can remember they would be the same points right?

Dinamarth wrote:

Any thoughts on the changes to Lysander? I'm not impressed with his built-in banner or the loss of bolster defenses (not that I used it much anyway). I'm curious if taking a Chapter Master in TDA with Thunderhammer and the Relic Stormshield might compete with him now? I'm not keen on all the new point differences maybe someone can chime in?

Edit: As far as I can remember they would be the same points right?

You would miss out on his S10 Hammer with +1 to Vehicle Damage Tables though.
And if you are trying to squeeze more value out of the points you might as well slap him in Artificer Armour instead of TDA so he can follow up after Combat as the Relic SS gives you the 3++ anyway.

 Vain wrote:

You would miss out on his S10 Hammer with +1 to Vehicle Damage Tables though.
And if you are trying to squeeze more value out of the points you might as well slap him in Artificer Armour instead of TDA so he can follow up after Combat as the Relic SS gives you the 3++ anyway.

Both true, but my army is all terminators/scouts. I was more considering alternatives to running Lysander in case I wanted to do different CTs. It's nice that I can kit a CM out that's close to him.

Ok so it says dreadnaughts don't get chapter tactics dose that include iron hands chapter tactics I was thinking it would be really fun to run a heavy dreadnought list all of them having it will not die just sounds soooo fun.

 BlackRaven1987!! wrote:
Ok so it says dreadnaughts don't get chapter tactics dose that include iron hands chapter tactics I was thinking it would be really fun to run a heavy dreadnought list all of them having it will not die just sounds soooo fun.

IH CT says even vehicles that don't have CT benefit... so, yeah

 Lobukia wrote:

 BlackRaven1987!! wrote:
Ok so it says dreadnaughts don't get chapter tactics dose that include iron hands chapter tactics I was thinking it would be really fun to run a heavy dreadnought list all of them having it will not die just sounds soooo fun.

IH CT says even vehicles that don't have CT benefit... so, yeah

Ok cool 12 dreadnaughts with it will not die here I come and just for fun everyone gets a drop pod.

and the drop pod has IWND as well.....

 Leth wrote:
and the drop pod has IWND as well.....

I know isn't it positively awesome I AM JUST SOOO HAPPY!!!!!

I see a lot of people running CT White Scars and IH soon.

 Crimson wrote:
There has been no word whether single character can take multiple relics, right?

I do believe the banner, shield and armour probably won't exchange any weapon, like Shroud of Heroes (DA) and Scrolls of Magnus (CSM). So, blades or bolter + super SS ftw!

Question in between my nerdgasm something occurred to me how would chapter tactics work in apoc games. Could you possible give a Titan IWND or maybe a thunder hawk gunship because that would be AWSOME!!!!!

Just a quick question, will C:SM get a PFG like thing? It would really compliment IH dreads: cheap techmarine/MotF with PFG hiding behind 2-3 Ironclad dreads.

Puscifer wrote:
Is it me, or have the points gone up to crazy levels for Marines?

A lot of the stuff just screams unusable because of the points imo.

Marine armies are going to look tiny on the board.

Or is that because I just picked up SW and everything is uber cheap by comparison.

What? A lot of things went down in price

 ace101 wrote:
Just a quick question, will C:SM get a PFG like thing? It would really compliment IH dreads: cheap techmarine/MotF with PFG hiding behind 2-3 Ironclad dreads.

No, they can't get an Invul bubble like DA can.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 centuryslayer wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Is it me, or have the points gone up to crazy levels for Marines?

A lot of the stuff just screams unusable because of the points imo.

Marine armies are going to look tiny on the board.

Or is that because I just picked up SW and everything is uber cheap by comparison.

What? A lot of things went down in price

I think they're looking at the Wargear.

While the cost of weapon options went up for Tacticals this is offset by the units 2ppm decrease meaning a full squad is 20 points cheaper to start with. And Devastators take those heavies at the same cost as the Tacticals meaning they're paying less for their options.

Some things got a price bump, but in some cases there is a considerable amount of offset, like lower upgrade costs, or being on models that are cheaper. I think it's too early to call this book horrible just yet.

At the very least it feels like the book has a lot of internal balance where no one is really shortchanged for taking any one thing over another, and with different units that can hand the same, or similiar tasks there is a lot of flexibility of people to play what they like instead of just what is the cheapest. The real test is going to come once the book has a chance to get some time on the table.

True, I kinda like the points adjustments overall, and it will be intresesting to see what they change in the army lists.

 centuryslayer wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Is it me, or have the points gone up to crazy levels for Marines?

A lot of the stuff just screams unusable because of the points imo.

Marine armies are going to look tiny on the board.

Or is that because I just picked up SW and everything is uber cheap by comparison.

What? A lot of things went down in price

I've made a retort to this many times... I'm not a marine player.

Interesting thing I've been told... Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights and Blood Angels might be getting a big errata and extra units from this codex.

I've been told that it'll be something along the lines of updated rules, points and the inclusion of some of the newer units.

Kinda like a stop gap before the newer dexes.

This came from a GW rep who visited one of my FLGS.

While I can understand that for the regular chapters, why GK?

Have errats/FAQs ever added completely new units to a codex?

 SickSix wrote:
Have errats/FAQs ever added completely new units to a codex?

Stormtalon/Raven for Vanilla and Templars.

Puscifer wrote:

 centuryslayer wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Is it me, or have the points gone up to crazy levels for Marines?

A lot of the stuff just screams unusable because of the points imo.

Marine armies are going to look tiny on the board.

Or is that because I just picked up SW and everything is uber cheap by comparison.

What? A lot of things went down in price

I've made a retort to this many times... I'm not a marine player.

Interesting thing I've been told... Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights and Blood Angels might be getting a big errata and extra units from this codex.

I've been told that it'll be something along the lines of updated rules, points and the inclusion of some of the newer units.

Kinda like a stop gap before the newer dexes.

This came from a GW rep who visited one of my FLGS.

While I can understand that for the regular chapters, why GK?

If this happens, it will be truly earth shattering /ground breaking/ never happened before. One does not simply get new items in the old 'dexs. Also, don't even listen to the GW employees... their accuracy rate is far worse than an boyz shooting.

That'd be extremely cool and/or good. ^^

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
Have errats/FAQs ever added completely new units to a codex?

Stormtalon/Raven for Vanilla and Templars.

That was a new unit type that they needed to sell... I can't see any other PA lists getting FAQ'd units. If it does happen, then Matt Ward must have been fired and Jervis resigned.

 Lobukia wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
Have errats/FAQs ever added completely new units to a codex?

Stormtalon/Raven for Vanilla and Templars.

That was a new unit type that they needed to sell... I can't see any other PA lists getting FAQ'd units. If it does happen, then Matt Ward must have been fired and Jervis resigned.

I don't think it's going to happen either, but he asked if an Errata/FAQ had ever added a new unit to a Codex, and it has.

I asked if any other army was getting the flyers and centurions and all I got was "Wait and see, it won't be long".

I reckon it's just going to be Grav Weapons for the other Chapters and possibly one of the flyers and the AA Tanks.

I find it odd that a general GW employee would know what the Dev team is planning for FAQs...

So yeah, all the salt in the Dead Sea on that one.

I can see the logic in grav weapons and the 2 new tanks getting erratad for other sm codexes.

Captain Galenus wrote:
Just noticed that all companies but the assault company has been taken down from gw, but they're are being released again with c:sm. im guessing this means that they've put the tanks back in, as it now comes to €600ish.

Don't if anyone else knew this, or if it really means much, but it could make getting a whole chapter a lot easier (or just buy one for €10000!!)

Also there are gunna be a lot of releases this month!!!

IT's because the Tactical, Strnguard, and Vanguard kits are being replaced. Assault company doesn't use any of those, while the tac, veteran, tac reserve all do, and the Dev company fills out the dev squads with tac squads for bodies.

 centuryslayer wrote:
I can see the logic in grav weapons and the 2 new tanks getting erratad for other sm codexes.

I honestly don't see the logic in it. I see the desire of those other codices to have the special SM only stuff, but the logic is actually against it-
Things like the grav guns, stalker hunter, and centruions make the SM codex stand out as different from the variant books. Remember 5th and how BA were basically Codex: SM+?
Even without grav gun access, there is going to be some crossover sales of the tac squad, sternguard, and vanguard kits among the variant codices, just for parts alone.
There is already a mechanic for integrating the new stuff into variant books, called Allied detachments.
With Allied detachments, adding stuff to the variant SM books by FAQ actually hurts sales, as there would be no need to buy the SM codex if the new stuff is added for free.

Thinking more about the storm.

Land Speeder Storm
Now a dedicated transport for Scouts
-5 point reduction
May replace Heavy Bolter with free Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta for 5 points less, Assault Cannon for 15 points less
Jamming Beacon now makes models that are in range roll twice the number of scatter dice that distance they normally would
Cerberus Launcher: 18" S2, AP-, Heavy 1, Large Blast, Blind

So it's 10 points cheaper than a Chimera with a HF or the same cost as a Chimera if it takes a MM. Scout squad is 60 points, and it's a dedicated transport.

The Cereberus launcher is going to be mean against necrons and tau. Blind forces I tests on a hit not a wound so only 1 model needs to be clipped by the large pie.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Thinking more about the storm.

Land Speeder Storm
Now a dedicated transport for Scouts
-5 point reduction
May replace Heavy Bolter with free Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta for 5 points less, Assault Cannon for 15 points less
Jamming Beacon now makes models that are in range roll twice the number of scatter dice that distance they normally would
Cerberus Launcher: 18" S2, AP-, Heavy 1, Large Blast, Blind

So it's 10 points cheaper than a Chimera with a HF or the same cost as a Chimera if it takes a MM. Scout squad is 60 points, and it's a dedicated transport.

The Cereberus launcher is going to be mean against necrons and tau. Blind forces I tests on a hit not a wound so only 1 model needs to be clipped by the large pie.

Just remember that while it's cheaper than a Chimera, but is only AV10 on all faces and holds less models too.

I also think Landspeeders only have 2HP if I'm remembering correctly?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Captain Galenus wrote:
Just noticed that all companies but the assault company has been taken down from gw, but they're are being released again with c:sm. im guessing this means that they've put the tanks back in, as it now comes to €600ish.

Don't if anyone else knew this, or if it really means much, but it could make getting a whole chapter a lot easier (or just buy one for €10000!!)

Also there are gunna be a lot of releases this month!!!

IT's because the Tactical, Strnguard, and Vanguard kits are being replaced. Assault company doesn't use any of those, while the tac, veteran, tac reserve all do, and the Dev company fills out the dev squads with tac squads for bodies.

 centuryslayer wrote:
I can see the logic in grav weapons and the 2 new tanks getting erratad for other sm codexes.

I honestly don't see the logic in it. I see the desire of those other codices to have the special SM only stuff, but the logic is actually against it-
Things like the grav guns, stalker hunter, and centruions make the SM codex stand out as different from the variant books. Remember 5th and how BA were basically Codex: SM+?
Even without grav gun access, there is going to be some crossover sales of the tac squad, sternguard, and vanguard kits among the variant codices, just for parts alone.
There is already a mechanic for integrating the new stuff into variant books, called Allied detachments.
With Allied detachments, adding stuff to the variant SM books by FAQ actually hurts sales, as there would be no need to buy the SM codex if the new stuff is added for free.

As a Blood Angels player (among other armies), I can honestly say I hope they don't just copy+paste CSM and add Sanguinary Guard/Furioso's. God that would suck.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Thinking more about the storm.

Land Speeder Storm
Now a dedicated transport for Scouts
-5 point reduction
May replace Heavy Bolter with free Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta for 5 points less, Assault Cannon for 15 points less
Jamming Beacon now makes models that are in range roll twice the number of scatter dice that distance they normally would
Cerberus Launcher: 18" S2, AP-, Heavy 1, Large Blast, Blind

So it's 10 points cheaper than a Chimera with a HF or the same cost as a Chimera if it takes a MM. Scout squad is 60 points, and it's a dedicated transport.

The Cereberus launcher is going to be mean against necrons and tau. Blind forces I tests on a hit not a wound so only 1 model needs to be clipped by the large pie.

Someone in GW worked out the Storms don't sell well, then.

Or it just means that they were not really well placed and should have always been a dedicated transport.

Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

Storms had a number of strikes against them, many which have been removed.

They were a non-dedicated transport for scouts. So it ate up a FA pick. If you were doing a scout themed army, those were FA picks that could be used for scout bikers

The scouts you wanted to drag around (non-snipers) were oft maligned. People whine about how bad assault marines are in CC, and scouts in that role are just worse. Scoring and cheap, but not very effective.

You could do drive by shootings with bolters and shotguns, but how many points do you want to invest in some highly mobile, mediocre firepower?

Anybody who was playing a mobile army can now have troops that can keep up, without eating FA slots

Bolter drill will boost the effectiveness of drive by shootings for IF scouts.

The new launcher is more generically useful then the old one, which was kinda gimmicky. Not sure about the jammer, have to see the fine print.

I was on the fence for a while about picking one of these guys up. Might pull the trigger and grab one. Once I work down my painting queue a bit first though...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

If something is selling poorly, there are generally three reasons:

1: It's ugly as sin
2: It's a sub-par unit on the table (for whatever reason)
3: The price is out of wack for what you get.

Now all of these things are subjective, but I don't think I've ever heard someone complain about how it looks, and it's price is about what I expect, compared to similar kits.

But the rules were always the short point. So they took the old rules and made the unit more balanced. Yes, this will generate more sales, but it is also part of fixing broken units in the codex.

Yeah I totally want to get a Storm now, that change to Dedicated transport really put it on the radar!

@Nevelon: I'm building a Crimson Fist force so thanks for the Bolter drill drive by heads up ;P

sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

so you think that any unit that gets improved in a codex re-write is a cynical money grab? Logically then, you think gw should make all units rubbish? That's poor logic.

Personally i'm looking forward to my master of the fleet nerfing their arrival, and my hydras turning them to scrap once they do arrive. Open topped av 10...hell even my chimeras could pop that.

 centuryslayer wrote:
Yeah I totally want to get a Storm now, that change to Dedicated transport really put it on the radar!

@Nevelon: I'm building a Crimson Fist force so thanks for the Bolter drill drive by heads up ;P

Rogal Dorn was apparently the fan of drive bys and hitting the enemy with a Death Blossom.

I can dig that. :p

xruslanx wrote:

sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

so you think that any unit that gets improved in a codex re-write is a cynical money grab? Logically then, you think gw should make all units rubbish? That's poor logic.

Personally i'm looking forward to my master of the fleet nerfing their arrival, and my hydras turning them to scrap once they do arrive. Open topped av 10...hell even my chimeras could pop that.

Yeah the whole "poor selling/new models always get the best rules" mantra really doesn't fly. If it did, Mutilators, warp talons, DA Flyers, Chariot of Tzeentch, and the entire SoB army would be top tier right now.

Rogal 'Gangsta' Dorn as he was known to his friends

 SickSix wrote:
Have errats/FAQs ever added completely new units to a codex?

Well, White Dwarf/PDF added Night Spinner for Eldar.

People have wished for the Storm to be a dedicated transport since the 5th edition book came out.

xruslanx wrote:

sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

so you think that any unit that gets improved in a codex re-write is a cynical money grab? Logically then, you think gw should make all units rubbish? That's poor logic.

I think most things publicly traded companies do are cynical money grabs, they're there to make a profit and they do what they can to improve the sales of certain products. In this case the landspeeder storm, which I haven't seen in many space marine armies, becomes a more viable option and thus improves the likelihood of sales. It's happened before and it will happen again. It's not universal, but it is a feature of releases.

Sorry, but what about my statement suggests I think all units should be made rubbish? I'm simply stating that when they identify a unit that has turned out to sell poorly, they make a change to rectify that.


I'd suggest new models don't always get the best rules because there's a certain amount of reliance on 'new shiny' syndrome where the very fatc of it being new or looking cool is enough to encourage a purchase. I don't particularly like Chaos, but I though those Warp Talons look great and I would buy some if I had a chaos army regardless of rules. If it turns out Mutilators have sold particularly poorly by the time the next Chaos Marine Codex rolls around I wouldn't be surprised to see them either get a redesign or a rules boost depending on the perceived reason for their lack of success.

To bring it back on topic, I bet the New Sternguard and Vanguard kits will suffer no such problems because the close-ups in the new pics show the awesome amount of detail on the kits. I like the look of the SG belt accessory that seems to be different types of bolter round. I'm also really loving some of the new Tactical squad details, like the shoulder pad with the built in aquila.

 centuryslayer wrote:
Rogal 'Gangsta' Dorn as he was known to his friends

A little known fact that in his downtime Dorn was a notorious mobster?

So it seems more Q&As are in order for clarification. Anyone got anything they want me to ask?

5 drop pod iron clads with ITND hahaha so much fun ahead!

All I was hopeing for was the ability to field all LoTD as an acutal chapter..........sigh

One other thing to consider - I believe non-walkers will auto-fail a blind attack?

This will potentially make it very effective against enemy tanks... which are also larget targets and more likely to be hit by a BS3 large blast.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 centuryslayer wrote:
Rogal 'Gangsta' Dorn as he was known to his friends

A little known fact that in his downtime Dorn was a notorious mobster?

So it seems more Q&As are in order for clarification. Anyone got anything they want me to ask?

The Chapter is actually called the Crimson Fists for an enterily different reason than suggested....

I believe that vehicles automatically pass Initiative checks. Not 100% sure on this one. that is if they dont have an initiative.

 Hedgehog wrote:
One other thing to consider - I believe non-walkers will auto-fail a blind attack?

This will potentially make it very effective against enemy tanks... which are also larget targets and more likely to be hit by a BS3 large blast.

Nope wait double checked for a FAQ, they FAQ's it to not effect targets without an I score.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Hedgehog wrote:
One other thing to consider - I believe non-walkers will auto-fail a blind attack?

This will potentially make it very effective against enemy tanks... which are also larget targets and more likely to be hit by a BS3 large blast.

Nope wait double checked for a FAQ, they FAQ's it to not effect targets without an I score.

damnit, that would have been pretty neat

Tau blacksun filters give immunity to the Blind USR, at least it will still work on their infantry models though.



mmmm... 666th Post. I may have to stop posting for a bit.

The MM storm is going to be a vicious little runt. It doesn't have the 12 Front armor of a Chimera, but it has a 5+ jink and fills entirely different rolls.

With the scouts it's a good 25 points cheaper than it was in 5th ed.

12" scout + 12" move + 12" range for double dice pen on a melta shot=36" range double dice pen threat range on deployment.

12" move + 12" range for double dice pen on a melta shot=24" threat range when outflanking.

Storm's are open topped and scouts a very points efficient in CC against vehicles with a 10 or 11 rear armor.

The blind can't really be relied upon against I3/I4 opponents, but at a 50%/33% chance of failing the test opponents really won't like you throwing blind at them. It also really punishes opponents that cluster squads close together. Even if they are I4 if 2 squads are hit those are pretty much the same odds of a squad being blinded as I2 opponents.

Blind is great extra utility against Tau, crons, orks, and TMC.

Storms are not going to be broken, but they seem very competitive. I'm expecting to see a lot of them.

 centuryslayer wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Hedgehog wrote:
One other thing to consider - I believe non-walkers will auto-fail a blind attack?

This will potentially make it very effective against enemy tanks... which are also larget targets and more likely to be hit by a BS3 large blast.

Nope wait double checked for a FAQ, they FAQ's it to not effect targets without an I score.

damnit, that would have been pretty neat

Indeed, I thought I had something there...

 schadenfreude wrote:

Storms are not going to be broken, but they seem very competitive. I'm expecting to see a lot of them.

Plus they're great-looking models when loaded with Scouts. I'm going to be dusting mine off.

I think the MM is a pretty good choice tho' , I need to get me a Storm >___>

 Thaylen wrote:
Tau blacksun filters give immunity to the Blind USR, at least it will still work on their infantry models though.



mmmm... 666th Post. I may have to stop posting for a bit.

Doh..just noticed it comes automatically in every suit.

Guess it's only really useful against infantry. Fire warriors and path finders will also fold if assaulted by scouts. The MM is good against Devil Fish. The storm still seems like a great unit for it's cost.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

so you think that any unit that gets improved in a codex re-write is a cynical money grab? Logically then, you think gw should make all units rubbish? That's poor logic.

Personally i'm looking forward to my master of the fleet nerfing their arrival, and my hydras turning them to scrap once they do arrive. Open topped av 10...hell even my chimeras could pop that.

Yeah the whole "poor selling/new models always get the best rules" mantra really doesn't fly. If it did, Mutilators, warp talons, DA Flyers, Chariot of Tzeentch, and the entire SoB army would be top tier right now.

DA flyers have had one codex, lol. It's a little early to be using them as an example.

However, realistically, it's not about simply what models sell poorly and which don't. It's also a question of the market segment and predicted ROI. There are a lot of Space Marine armies, and they make a lot of Space Marine figures to keep with the demand. Increasing demand for the LSS fits into that strategy. On the other hand, they don't make a lot of Sisters of Battle, and may not even have the resources to keep up with an inflated demand for them. In that case, trying to push the sales of Sisters models wouldn't be productive. They'd have demand for more models than they can realistically produce.

Keep in mind that's just an example. I have no idea what their production capability of Sisters models is. I'm just saying that the solutions aren't always cut and dried, and interchangeable. Pushing poorly selling models in popular armies has a higher return on investment than pushing poorly selling models in poorly selling armies. And the poorly selling armies may not be targets for expansion. GW may not want to sell more Sisters than it does now, simply because there might be a material investment and an opportunity cost to drive those sales which has been considered more favorable with other options.

 Vain wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Also, the flame sword relic + the storm shield + Arti armour... Brutal!

That was my first thought..on a Bike, with IH CT...

But my Eldar playing friend claims that they can only use one relic per army to prevent such combos. Would expect the same with SM

Relics will probably be like most in the new codexs with a stipulation that you can only take one of each. So be sure to bring a cup for your Eldar friend's tears when you feild your unstoppable IH Chapter master with Burning Blade + Arti armor + EW SS + BIKE+ IWND + FNP

Click to see me freaking out over a misinterpretation of a rumor! It's hilarious!


On the other hand, as several people have said, I might ally in an Iron Hands CM on a bike with some of those relics rather than a SW WL on a thunderwolf. Like Yodhrin said, take some of those relics (burning blade, SS relic) along with a bike and artificer armor, and...well, you can pretty much kill everything that isn't a land raider, and can survive EVERYTHING that isn't a dozen plus AP2 wounds. And then you get a wound back...

Bike squad for troops ally, and then ally in an Ironclad, who ALSO has IWND...this could be fun. Heck, maybe ally in a Vindicator or Stormraven too. IWND on that could be pretty fun.

sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

so you think that any unit that gets improved in a codex re-write is a cynical money grab? Logically then, you think gw should make all units rubbish? That's poor logic.

Personally i'm looking forward to my master of the fleet nerfing their arrival, and my hydras turning them to scrap once they do arrive. Open topped av 10...hell even my chimeras could pop that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

so you think that any unit that gets improved in a codex re-write is a cynical money grab? Logically then, you think gw should make all units rubbish? That's poor logic.

Personally i'm looking forward to my master of the fleet nerfing their arrival, and my hydras turning them to scrap once they do arrive. Open topped av 10...hell even my chimeras could pop that.

DogofWar1 wrote:
So Tactical squad sergeants might not be able to take combi-weapons?

What?

Tactical Marines
...
Sergeant/Veteran Sergeant have access to Melee and Ranged wargear
...

Ranged Weapons: Models may replace their Boltgun or Bolt Pistol with one of the following:
...
Combi-Flamer, Melta, Plasma, or Grav (same cost)
...

Seems to me like they will.

..........

sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is a very simple change to make. The other boosts to it's utility suggest, as ever, a desire to push a poor seller to the fore. Not saying it's right or wrong, just slightly amused that it's become so transparent.

so you think that any unit that gets improved in a codex re-write is a cynical money grab? Logically then, you think gw should make all units rubbish? That's poor logic.

Personally i'm looking forward to my master of the fleet nerfing their arrival, and my hydras turning them to scrap once they do arrive. Open topped av 10...hell even my chimeras could pop that.

 wtwlf123 wrote:

DogofWar1 wrote:
So Tactical squad sergeants might not be able to take combi-weapons?

What?

Tactical Marines
...
Sergeant/Veteran Sergeant have access to Melee and Ranged wargear

Seems to me like they will.

Oh! I reread the rules stuff. Derp. I saw the post on the front page saying sergeants couldn't take ranged weapons, just pistols, and thought it was for tactical squads. I guess that was for assault squads, which I guess makes more sense now, Tac squads having bolters as a base and assault marines using pistols as a base.

My mistake, I retract my complaint, thanks for replying. I should probably start getting more sleep before I start reading too much into rumors thinking they've ruined my carefully crafted Pedrowing plans, haha.

I'm happy again!

Edit:
40k radio said bikes dropped 4 points. Does that mean they'll be coming in at a mere 21 pts per bike? That's incredibly cheap and totally awesome. I guess they're following the Chaos Bikers mold. If they end up being 70 pts base + 21 pts per after that, wow, a five man scoring biker squad (assuming mounted captain or chapter master) at a mere 112 points.

So yeah, TOTALLY allying in IH bike broken CM with a scoring bike squad in tow.

Edit: nvm, no CT on ironclads. :(
I wonder if Stormravens will have CT, and as such have IWND for IH. Or Land Raiders for that matter.

You scared me a bit ...not gonna lie.

So, it seems to me like all the points we save on the -2 reduction we have to give right back for the increase in points to the heavy/special weapons. Or am I misreading that?

The squad is 20 points cheaper, but Meltaguns are +5 points (making them 10 now) and Multi-Meltas are +10 (making them 10 now) so the overall points for a 10-man Tactical Squad in a Rhino w/ Combi-Melta, Melta, MM stays exactly the same as it was before? :-/

..........

I couldn't determine whether Grav weapons can be taken in great quantities or not? Is it only pistols and rifles for sergeant and special weapon upgrades? My MC list is terrified of the idea of an entire unit of grav weapons, but I don't see that as an option, or a heavy Grav weapon?

 Vain wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Also, the flame sword relic + the storm shield + Arti armour... Brutal!

That was my first thought..on a Bike, with IH CT...

But my Eldar playing friend claims that they can only use one relic per army to prevent such combos. Would expect the same with SM

Your friend is mistaken. It's one of each relic, not one only. Same as Dark Angels.

 Oaka wrote:
I couldn't determine whether Grav weapons can be taken in great quantities or not? Is it only pistols and rifles for sergeant and special weapon upgrades? My MC list is terrified of the idea of an entire unit of grav weapons, but I don't see that as an option, or a heavy Grav weapon?

Regular Squads will only be able to take the Rifles and Pistols. The Cannons are exclusive to the Devastator Centurions.

Which is daft, but I guess Chaos players' heads would (understandably) explode if we got a recut devastator sprue in addition to the other 3 new plastic marine kits.

 Oaka wrote:
I couldn't determine whether Grav weapons can be taken in great quantities or not? Is it only pistols and rifles for sergeant and special weapon upgrades? My MC list is terrified of the idea of an entire unit of grav weapons, but I don't see that as an option, or a heavy Grav weapon?

Veterans might be able to 'spam' them:

" Command Squad
1 may be taken for each Captain, Chaplain or Librarian in the army
-15 points less
Apothecary +15 upgrade
-60 point discount for bikes
-5 point discount on Storm shields
May trade Bolt Pistols for Bolters for free
Veterans may take Melee, and Ranged, Special wargear[b]
May take Standard of the Emperor Ascendant "

 wtwlf123 wrote:
The squad is 20 points cheaper, but Meltaguns are +5 points (making them 10 now) and Multi-Meltas are +10 (making them 10 now) so the overall points for a 10-man Tactical Squad in a Rhino w/ Combi-Melta, Melta, MM stays exactly the same as it was before?

Bringing everything in line with DA pricing, all of my 10 man Tactical squad builds are 5 points cheaper for exactly the same thing. That's including the LD9 sergeant, but I don't see anything giving Codex Space Marines free weapons like the 5ed Codex. Certainly isn't the end of the world, but especially for those combo's that were built around the freebies from the 5ed Dex, that 2 point per model reduction doesn't amount to much.

On the LSS, wasn't it rumored to be an Assault Vehicle? Or is that something Open Topped allows? (I remember reading that in a 40k radio leak, and I'm not too familiar with OT vehicle rules) Could be interesting with Raven Guard CT.

Open topped vehicles are assault vehicles (I'm an Ork & DE player, so trust me on this one!)

(page 82 in the rule book)

 centuryslayer wrote:

 Oaka wrote:
I couldn't determine whether Grav weapons can be taken in great quantities or not? Is it only pistols and rifles for sergeant and special weapon upgrades? My MC list is terrified of the idea of an entire unit of grav weapons, but I don't see that as an option, or a heavy Grav weapon?

Veterans might be able to 'spam' them:

" Command Squad
1 may be taken for each Captain, Chaplain or Librarian in the army
-15 points less
Apothecary +15 upgrade
-60 point discount for bikes
-5 point discount on Storm shields
May trade Bolt Pistols for Bolters for free
Veterans may take Melee, and Ranged, Special wargear[b]
May take Standard of the Emperor Ascendant "

Command squad + bikes + grav guns for everyone = pain

 Nevelon wrote:


Command squad + bikes + grav guns for everyone = pain

Take a combi-flamer to deal with pesky horde armies, and yeah, all the bases are pretty much covered.

Except when Baledrakes show up...

Throw a guy with 2+ in the unit.

Or if they can all get combi-weapons, give them all combi-grav for one turn......nasty nasty stuff.

15 shots
10 hits
6-7 wounds at AP 2 on most targets

Not bad for 50 points.

 Leth wrote:
Throw a guy with 2+ in the unit.

Or if they can all get combi-weapons, give them all combi-grav for one turn......nasty nasty stuff.

15 shots
10 hits
6-7 wounds at AP 2 on most targets

Not bad for 50 points.

If I'm reading the rumors right, full grav. guns are just 5ppm more then a combi. If you are on a bike, you have the TL bolters if you need to mow down lightly armored targets. Most battlefields are full of stuff that could use multiple volleys of grav. fire. Probably worth the investment.

I think my rule of thumb is to use grav. weapons on relentless platforms (aka bikes, terminator characters) or units I'm planning on camping with. For the marine on the move, I think plasma is better overall.

 Spartan089 wrote:

 Vain wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Also, the flame sword relic + the storm shield + Arti armour... Brutal!

That was my first thought..on a Bike, with IH CT...

But my Eldar playing friend claims that they can only use one relic per army to prevent such combos. Would expect the same with SM

Relics will probably be like most in the new codexs with a stipulation that you can only take one of each. So be sure to bring a cup for your Eldar friend's tears when you feild your unstoppable IH Chapter master with Burning Blade + Arti armor + EW SS + BIKE+ IWND + FNP

Seriously, all though obviously the chapter master has more wounds, I think the real brute will be an IH librarian kitted out with the special storm shield, burning brand, bike and arti armour with either iron arm or warp speed (obviously some luck involved) depending on opponent, hopefully anyway, and a command squad....

Could even have the librarian on bike with burning brand and storm shield and then have a chapter master with the storm shield relic and TH to tank. Could be very brutal indeed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, does allying in another c:sm army give you access to another set of relics? The only thing worse than one of those CM running around will be two of them....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Obviously one of them won't be an IH but it's bad enough without the IH CT, they're just a bonus!

I'm looking at the relic banner intently... now I have to decide whether to give it to a captain or to honour guard/command squad....

I like how since the mods closed the last thread people had to make a new one.

 Nevelon wrote:

 centuryslayer wrote:

 Oaka wrote:
I couldn't determine whether Grav weapons can be taken in great quantities or not? Is it only pistols and rifles for sergeant and special weapon upgrades? My MC list is terrified of the idea of an entire unit of grav weapons, but I don't see that as an option, or a heavy Grav weapon?

Veterans might be able to 'spam' them:

" Command Squad
1 may be taken for each Captain, Chaplain or Librarian in the army
-15 points less
Apothecary +15 upgrade
-60 point discount for bikes
-5 point discount on Storm shields
May trade Bolt Pistols for Bolters for free
Veterans may take Melee, and Ranged, Special wargear[b]
May take Standard of the Emperor Ascendant "

Command squad + bikes + grav guns for everyone = pain

Command Squad bikes actually affordable? OK, will need to grab another Ravenwing battleforce to get enough bikes.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Seriously, all though obviously the chapter master has more wounds, I think the real brute will be an IH librarian kitted out with the special storm shield, burning brand, bike and arti armour with either iron arm or warp speed (obviously some luck involved) depending on opponent, hopefully anyway, and a command squad....

Could even have the librarian on bike with burning brand and storm shield and then have a chapter master with the storm shield relic and TH to tank. Could be very brutal indeed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, does allying in another c:sm army give you access to another set of relics? The only thing worse than one of those CM running around will be two of them....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Obviously one of them won't be an IH but it's bad enough without the IH CT, they're just a bonus!

My one concern with a Bike Libby would be two wounds instead of 4. With Mastery Level 2, Bike, AA, Burning Blade, and EW Stormshield you'd be looking at 235 points, I think, which is a lot for a 2 wound model. While you'd get IWND, I'd be concerned about volume of fire causing problems, since IWND won't work if you lose both of those wounds, whereas with a CM, you'd have to somehow lose ALL 4 wounds.

Basically, with the 6+ FNP, if would take a little over 12 savable wounds to kill the Libby, versus a little over 24 with the CM, assuming no AP2. Also, it doesn't sound like they'd get Mounted Assault. Also, Iron Arm loses some effectiveness since most stuff is getting wounded on a 2+ anyway with Burning Blade (+3 strength and all), and you get EW from the shield. The extra toughness would be nice though. The other problem is you have to roll for that power, and only have a 1/3 chance of getting it. Warp Speed initiative boost would be nice, but D3 extra attacks is kind of a waste when the CM would have had 4A. At most, you get 1 extra attack with the Libby, with a 1/3 chance of having 1 less attack too. The most useful power of biomancy would be enfeeble, IMO.

It's unfortunate also that most libbies don't have divination, prescience would have been a good power too, and some of the divination powers are awesome.

What might work better is a bike army with Tigurius allied in. Sure, he's on foot (or a transport if you give him one), but I could see an IH Bike army with him allied in being very strong. 3 powers, access to divination, re-roll which powers you get. If you had some combination of Enfeeble, Forewarning, Misfortune, and Prescience, those bike squads suddenly get force multiplied through the roof.


You know, I'm seeing a pattern here:
Step 1. Choose non-UM chapter
Step 2. Build optimized army list
Step 3. Ally Tigurius
Step 4. PROFIT!

No advanced order for the marines up yet. Weird.

Aaaaaaaand GW's UK website looks like it's down.

There goes my hopes of an early pre-order.

Apparently the Whirlwind has vanished from existence. Anyone heard any rumours about that?

Goddamnit I have stayed up while on holiday for preorder goodness and GW don't have the decency to ensure a robust system is in place! Who didn't think people would flock to the site in droves?!
Grrr :#

Well, I guess it was to be expected that SM interest was bigger than say Tau or Eldar!

 Hoff Starr wrote:
Goddamnit I have stayed up while on holiday for preorder goodness and GW don't have the decency to ensure a robust system is in place! Who didn't think people would flock to the site in droves?!
Grrr :#

Lots of people built up by lots of rumours for lots of awesome new models in the biggest release of the year.

I just hope that people that placed their orders before the crash managed to get their stuff. I'm going to try again in the morning.

I imagine the various people willing to shell out for an LE Codex are refreshing like mad.

All I want to do is look at the sprue pics :(

I can't even get the page to open once.

I really can't blame GW for their website having Issues with quasi-DDoS like this, when the same thing happens to college networks consistently during registration.

They could have made bigger print runs FFS.

I can't believe the Sternguard squad is £5 more expensive than the Vanguard.

That's pretty much put me out of buying any of the new releases, except maybe the Stalker, if it turns out to be awesome gamewise.

Its offically up on gw's site

Quite surprised Tacs only went up £2. Bit annoying that the plastic characters are £18 though.

Games workshop.com is down atm, probably adding the preorders.

http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/games-workshop.com.html

White scars with a hq on a bike with command squad all wielding grav rifles. Merry christmas!

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
Quite surprised Tacs only went up £2. Bit annoying that the plastic characters are £18 though.

That is pretty good considering it's all brand new and shiny. But £18 for those decidedly average mono-pose characters! They're 'avin' a giraffe.

I agree with you completely, I thought they had gone up to £30. So it was a nice surprise, can't wait to see the spruce pics now.

Nah, I would have expected £28 though, the same price as termies.

Although, I'm assuming Termies will now go up to £30?

 Compel wrote:
Apparently the Whirlwind has vanished from existence. Anyone heard any rumours about that?

From what I've seen, they will be cheaper and keep the same rules, which makes them a fantastic bargain if you have spare HS slots.

I'm going to be upset if my codex of choice sells out before I can even load the damn page.

Triszin wrote:
Games workshop.com is down atm, probably adding the preorders.

http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/games-workshop.com.html

Where would you go to check if "Is It Down Right Now?" is down?

On topic though, I'm liking the new releases. I can see possible conversions to make the Centurions better-looking, might even convince me to get a small force myself.

UrielSynthesis wrote:
I'm going to be upset if my codex of choice sells out before I can even load the damn page.

I have no idea why they limited it to 500 worldwide. They could have done 5000 and sold them out

Saving myself a load of cash by not buying any of this. Prices are a joke

Motograter wrote:
Saving myself a load of cash by not buying any of this. Prices are a joke

Congrats on being the first person to ever say that. You must feel special.

Stayed up late to see if I could grab one of the limited covers.. but its getting too late now.. think I'll turn in and see if there are any left in the morn.

If not, I'll just get a normal one.

Looks like GW's facebook team dropped the ball. Already announcing the digital pre-orders.

And its up.

 namiel wrote:

UrielSynthesis wrote:
I'm going to be upset if my codex of choice sells out before I can even load the damn page.

I have no idea why they limited it to 500 worldwide. They could have done 5000 and sold them out

Otherwise they wouldn't be a limited edition now would it?
I tought the LE only had the dustcover... But from people at my local GW said the insides are themed per chapter to.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
And its up.

Motograter wrote:
Saving myself a load of cash by not buying any of this. Prices are a joke

Is it a knock knock or a topical?

But seriously, I applaud you on your obvious level headedness and restraint. Let me know how that unit of bane knights is treating you.

This is like roulette - how impulsive will I be when the site finally lets me start shopping?!

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:

 namiel wrote:

UrielSynthesis wrote:
I'm going to be upset if my codex of choice sells out before I can even load the damn page.

I have no idea why they limited it to 500 worldwide. They could have done 5000 and sold them out

Otherwise they wouldn't be a limited edition now would it?
I tought the LE only had the dustcover... But from people at my local GW said the insides are themed per chapter to.

It would still be plenty limited.

Lol, I can't wait to see that 10 000$ deal. THIS is pure joke to me!

GW's site has crashed from too much traffic. I guess people are excited about Space Marines, or their servers are just terrible. Given GW it's probably a mixture of both.

Chaplain - only available in that squad set? Apart from the left pad and both heads I like him.

Sternguard - there is so much awesome I can barely contain myself. Seriously, looking at the sprue pics I actually gasped. Given the amount of previously sought after bits on the sprue with multiple options this kit actually appears to justify the lofty price tag. Interesting combi-flamer design, I really like it. The only negative remains the loin-cloths, why of why did they have to be moulded on? Fave bit is the hand holding a combat knife.

Vanguard - there isn't much on this sprue I don't like except for the Mk. 4 legs. The pose looks a bit off. Fave bit might be the bionic corvus helm or the double-headed axe.

Tactical squad - this is a big kit! So much good stuff, increased posing options with bolter hands coming separately from their arms, more armour marks represented some interesting new backpack designs, MODULAR COMBI-WEAPON, more upright leg poses. Favourite bit is probably the skull and laurels chest.

Very much a fan of the frag/krak grenade bits in all kits rather than the old frag/frag or krak/krak we used to get. I'm going to have more shoulder pads than I know what to do with after buying all three kits

Congrats GW the three main kits of the release work. Let's just pretend the Centurions don't exist.

Excellent work GW. Your biggest release of the year, and your website sharts the bed.

Sterling work.

I has in the process of paying my LTE Ultra Codex and got hanged mid buy! Actually this is the first time i actually got a reason to complain from GW. Well to bad fro them( well and for me to, i do not need it but i would love to have it!) , I will just buy a normal edition from a 3rd party when they lunch it at 10% or 20% discount .

 GarretAsh wrote:
I has in the process of paying my LTE Ultra Codex and got hanged mid buy! Actualy this is the pirst time i actually got a reason to complain from GW.

Ditto. I wish they'd finish with their maintenance already.

 dienekes96 wrote:
Excellent work GW. Your biggest release of the year, and your website sharts the bed.

Sterling work.

If it can happen to the likes of Microsoft, Sony and Amazon then I'm not really surprised that the website is struggling at the moment.

I've never had it happen at Amazon. And this is the GW equivalent of Black Friday.

They can't help it either that the server got stressed out from so many people visiting at the same time.

It hapens a lot in games and on other sites to. So havee some patience.

 dienekes96 wrote:
I've never had it happen at Amazon. And this is the GW equivalent of Black Friday.

Not for me! That comes November, sorry, Nidvember

 dienekes96 wrote:
I've never had it happen at Amazon. And this is the GW equivalent of Black Friday.

I've never had it happen on GW either, in my experience. Until tonight

(edited for clarity)

It did for Aurelian. Big time. That was a colossal fiasco.

Well... after that if people still complain about the "silence policy" of GW. It just prove that leaked pictures and good rumors in advance is enought to shutdown the entire website due to high demand. I hope GW won't associate his short trailer and vague informations to have cause such high hype on the website... I can't wait to see the face of the marketing director of GW on Monday morning

Well even if I did get a concussion and want to pay double price for a Salamanders dust jacket, they will surely all be gone by the time the site loads for me.

So I am actually glad I can't get through right now lol.

But the pictures coming through on B&C are awesome.

I think the Stern box is worth the money if you compare it to the terminator box.

The silence policy has nothing to do with the shutdown.

The popularity of the Space Marines does. This is their #1 army in their #1 system. Concretely demonstrating that the SM releases are obviously their big bank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ad yes, the SG pictures are completely outstanding. That kit is pretty amazing. Crazy expensive, but they really went to town on it.

I'm actually excited about all this. It's been a while and I'm glad GW can still do that to me.

WOW, so you are paying $57 USD for:
-Cover Art
-Clear Dust jacket
-Gold Edged Pages
-Colored ribbon

over the normal codex....

The page count is exactly the same.

For shame.

Sigh......I wish I had more money to spend right now....I would buy so many more things than I have.

O well 250 was already pushing it anyway.....

Now if only those damn sprues would load.......

God I wish I could justify one of those limited editions......Seriously that succesors one makes me sooooo happy. As do almost all of them.

Up close, and the 360s really make the centurions look better....Plus all those weapon bits designed to be mounted.....HRRRGGGHHH

Sternguard: I am seeing, two combi-flamer, two combi-plasma, two combi grav, two storm bolters, one combi-melta, one each of melta, plasma, grav, one heavy flamer, and one heavy bolter.

The tactical squad is the one with the modular combi-weapons and comes with all of them....so could theoretically make one of each from every tactical kit. AWESOME..

I will trade everyone for the drum fed bolter in the sternguard kit. that looks so cool.
Also for the combi-flamer parts from the tactical sprue.

I see a lot of bit trades/buys in my future from these kits....God damn

I've got one!!! Ultramarine dex is mine!!!

A Salamander limited edition is mine!

Took some patience, but I was able to score a Salamanders 'dex. The tension as I hit the Order button and waited for confirmation was intense!

Site seems to be "slowly" accessible at the moment. Limited Edition Codex is tempting, but don't think it's for me. Best of luck to those who get them!

Not having a separate Chaplain from the start is quite annoying. Betting on that "which is currently only available" piece. If the box included one of the new squads, I'd consider it, but a Command Squad and Razorback? Gotta tempt me more than that GW!

Also surprised at the lack of One-Click collections.

 SickSix wrote:
WOW, so you are paying $57 USD for:
-Cover Art
-Clear Dust jacket
-Gold Edged Pages
-Colored ribbon

over the normal codex....

The page count is exactly the same.

For shame.

Why would there be more pages? If there were, people would be complaining that their non-special edition one was "incomplete" or what have you.

For Canadians who can't access the website, Here are some pricing info

Limited Edition codex: $140CAD
codex: $70CAD
Tact Squad(10): $50CAD
Sternguard(5): $60CAD
Venguard(5): $50CAD
Captain/Lib: $35CAD each
AA Tank: $80CAD
Space Marine inside a Space Marine(3): $94CAD

There is no SM company 1 click bundle for $10K EU, but the one click for every new model is $584

Okay, I take no credit for these. These all come from Shaun Carlin on B&C> He might well have stolen them too, but hey, I'll cite my source, lol.

































Automatically Appended Next Post:

I don't see the electronic version on iTunes.

Salamanders codex is mine!

I've got to hand it to GW to be smart enough not to release Space Marines at the same time as the new edition. This will be a nice cash injection mid-edition.

And I'm sure we'll be seeing more "leaked" pictures in the future, based on the success of this release. It seems clear to me that this "leaks" are just GW's new marketing strategy. (If someone really had the White Dwarf a month ago, there was plenty of other stuff to leak).

 streamdragon wrote:
Salamanders codex is mine!

Same here by far the most attractive cover, imo, and the chapter I have been wanting to run, anyway!

I use alternate models and so pretty much only buy rules from GW these days... but they got me with that cover

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Okay, I take no credit for these. These all come from Shaun Carlin on B&C> He might well have stolen them too, but hey, I'll cite my source, lol.

You know these are live in the GW website, right?!

Yeah, but the GW site has been having issues so it's nice to have them copied and pasted

The number of options on the the 3 power amours kits is amazing!

 SickSix wrote:
WOW, so you are paying $57 USD for:
-Cover Art
-Clear Dust jacket
-Gold Edged Pages
-Colored ribbon

over the normal codex....

The page count is exactly the same.

For shame.

You do know that the smaller the number of books you print the more expensive it is? They have to spread the cost of it over those books and then add a in a bit of money to actually make money on top of the production costs. The difference there between the two books is likely mostly printing cost.