Classics and the Western Canon discussion

Week 4 — Time Passes

The family and guests come in from the terrace and beach. Night falls, and the day ends. Night follows night. [The Ramsays and their guests go home, leaving Skye for the winter.] [Mrs Ramsay dies.] Mrs McNab comes in from time to time to open the windows and dust. [Prue Ramsay gets married in the spring and dies that summer].

War breaks out. [Andrew Ramsay is killed by a shell explosion in France. Mr Carmichael publishes a book of poetry which sells well. The surviving Ramsays do not return to the house in Skye.] The passage of time, the changes of season, and effects of natural forces as the house approaches ruin are lyrically described, along with Mrs McNab’s efforts to keep the house in order.

The War ends. Later, one of the Ramsay daughters writes, asking Mrs McNab to get the house ready for the summer, and she enlists Mrs Bast and her son to help with the cleaning and repair. The Ramsay family arrives for the summer. Lily Briscoe arrives on an evening in September to visit the Ramsays. Mr Carmichael and a Mrs Beckwith are also guests.

Some Questions to Start:

1) In this period of multiple losses for the Ramsay family, why does “Time Passes” focus on their summer house in Skye?

2) Back in Week 1, Tom and Mike questioned how to describe or characterize the narrator of the novel. This seems like a good place to revisit those questions. How would you characterize the narrator in “Time Passes?” And do you have a favorite passage?

Dates — Another pending question is when the events in the novel occur, and we’re finally given an answer.

In “Time Passes,” war breaks out and Andrew Ramsay dies in combat in France, clear references to what was then called The Great War (World War I), which began in July 28, 1914. The Armistice ending the fighting was signed November 11, 1918.

Based on this, events in “The Window” occurred before 1914, probably at least two years earlier. Lily’s painting style, which appears influenced by post-modernism, supports this timeframe since a 1910 art show, organized by one of Virginia Woolf’s friends, was instrumental in introducing Post-Modernism to the English. Thanks to Borum for suggesting Lily’s art might hold a clue.

Info/Links:

World War I: https://www.forces.net/news/ww1-why-d...

The 1910 English Art Show: “Manet and the Post-Impressionists:”
https://www.burlington.org.uk/archive...


List of Characters — Time Passes

In Skye
—Mrs Maggie McNab, the cleaning lady, close to seventy
—Mrs Bast, another cleaning lady
—George Bast, Mrs Bast’s son and handyman
—Kennedy, the former gardener
—Davie Macdonald, Kennedy’s replacement

The Ramsay Family
—Mr Ramsay
—Mrs Ramsay, died suddenly
—Rose
—Prue, the Fair, married and died of illness related to childbirth
—Andrew, the Just, killed by an exploding shell in the War
—Jasper
—Roger
—Nancy
—Cam
—James

Guests of the Ramsays
—Augustus Carmichael, a successful poet
—Lily Briscoe
—Mrs Beckwith

Others
—Mildred, the former cook (household staff)

Susan wrote: "In this period of multiple losses for the Ramsay family, why does “Time Passes” focus on their summer house in Skye?.."

I see the house as the focal point/central figure in this section to represent the ravages of time both on the house and on the Ramsay family. The significant events (the death of Mrs. Ramsay, Prue, and Andrew) are placed between brackets—as if to suggest they are of tangential importance. The focus is on the deteriorating condition of the house with the passage of time, and the aging Mrs. McNab’s attempt to arrest the deterioration.

The house has witnessed the Ramsays in their heyday with their brood of children running around, their personal items left haphazardly all over the place, and their dinner table gatherings of 20 people. Now all of that gathers dust. The house stands as a crumbling testament to their decline and diminishing numbers.

The attempts of Mrs. McNab, Mrs. Bast, and George to restore some semblance of cleanliness and repair to the deteriorating house represents a band-aid, at best. There is no going back. The onslaught of time is unforgiving and relentless.

Reading the section I am starting to think the narrator is the house. So far all of the events have taken place in or around the house. Just an idea I am playing with.

This section, to me, was some of the most beautiful writing I’ve read describing darkness and the passage of time.

. Tamara said: The house has witnessed the Ramsays in their heyday with their brood of children running around, their personal items left haphazardly all over the place, and their dinner table gatherings of 20 people. Now all of that gathers dust. The house stands as a crumbling testament to their decline and diminishing numbers..."

You “paint” a very vivid picture, Tamara.

Mike wrote: "Reading the section I am starting to think the narrator is the house. So far all of the events have taken place in or around the house. Just an idea I am playing with.

This section, to me, was som..."

What an interesting idea about the narrator. For me, “Time Passes” is the most beautifully written section of the book. I’m getting ready to listen to the audiobook version read by Juliet Stevenson which really brings out the poetry in Woolf’s prose.

The earlier emphasis on how Prue, a great beauty, and Andrew, a big intellect, were going to carry on their parent’s legacy adds to the poignancy of their loss, I think. [Mr Ramsay thinking] Andrew would be a better man than he had been. Prue would be a beauty, her mother said. They would stem the tide a bit. (Section 12, The Window)

I've been puzzling over the purpose of this section from a structural point of view. It takes the reader away from the characters and the story (whatever there is of it) to an abstract point of view. What could be more abstract and disinterested than bracketing the deaths of your protagonists? The matter is cold and objective, but the manner is melancholy and poetic. In the chapters preceding this section there is a concern with time at various points (at the end of 17, and most of 18 is concerned with how Mrs. Ramsay does things in time -- instantly, slowly, hurriedly) but here time is stripped of the people who live in it. All that remains is a decaying house and some incidental caretakers, until the very end when Lily and Mr. Carmichael return. I'd be fascinated to know what purpose this serves in the context of the novel as a whole...

Thomas wrote: "I'd be fascinated to know what purpose this serves in the context of the novel as a whole....."

I thought the section captured the slow, flowing, and forward moving passage of time interrupted by the occasional hiccup of Mrs. McNab as she scrubs and dusts and polishes. Perhaps her cleaning represents an attempt to reverse the impact of time. But, as she says, "It is beyond one person's strength to get it straight now." There is no going back.

I haven't figured out what purpose the section serves in the context of the novel other than to reinforce the idea that all are subject to the vicissitude of time. Maybe its purpose will become clearer when we finish the novel. Meanwhile, I thought the section was eloquent, beautiful, and poignant.

Thomas wrote: "I've been puzzling over the purpose of this section from a structural point of view. It takes the reader away from the characters and the story (whatever there is of it) to an abstract point of vie..."

Great question. No answer, but a few thoughts —

—I remember reading To the Lighthouse for the first time with no idea what was going to happen. Mrs Ramsay’s death came as a complete shock. I was stunned. I had to go back and reread it to be sure I understood correctly. Its impact on me was not reduced by the bracketing.

—We first meet Mrs McNab when Cam reports “there was an old woman in the kitchen with very red cheeks, drinking soup out of a basin”. (“The Window, Section 10). “Time Passes” is full of these echoes and references from the shawl wrapped around the skull to Scott’s Waverly novels to Mrs Ramsay’s dahlias.

—One of these references is a house metaphor. Mrs Ramsay talks to her husband: “It was sympathy, he wanted, to be assured of his genius, first of all, and then to be taken within the circle of life…and all the rooms of the house made full of life…Flashing her needles, confident, upright, she created drawing room and kitchen, set them all aglow; bade him take his ease there…” ending with “If he put implicit faith in her, nothing should hurt him; however deep he buried himself or climbed high, not for a second should he find himself without her.” “The Window,” Section 7

—“The Window” takes place over a mid-September evening. “Time Passes” continues on the same day, and it ends on a mid-September morning years later.

It seems like Mrs. Ramsay was the solid center of the family. I guess we'll see how it reorganizes without her, or doesn't.

Roger wrote: "It seems like Mrs. Ramsay was the solid center of the family. I guess we'll see how it reorganizes without her, or doesn't."

Yes. There might be some hints in this section.

Question — Do you find Mrs McNab a convincing character? Lines like “Visions of joy there must have been at the wash-tub, say with her children (yet two had been base-born and one had deserted her), at the public house, drinking; turning over scraps in her drawers. seem a little off-key.

Chiming in on Mike's, Susan's, and Tamara's posts, I am in awe of Woolf's writing in "Time Passes." It is among the finest writing I have had the privilege to read. Her personification of darkness ... and light ... and air ... is masterful. The presence of inexorable time, and indifferent (insensible) nature, and account of individual insignificance is tangible. I would change not a word. I will re-read this more than once.

In A Room of Own's Own Woolf writes " ... when one takes a sentence of Coleridge into the mind, it explodes and gives birth to all kinds of other ideas ... ." I would say the same of Woolf, particularly in "Time Passes." Thank you to Tamara whose earlier reference to Woolf's essay A Room of One's Own led me there.

Gary wrote: "Thank you to Tamara whose earlier reference to Woolf's essay A Room of One's Own led me there...."

You're welcome, Gary. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I like the quote from Woolf about Coleridge's sentences exploding in the mind although I think it describes Woolf's own writing more so than the prose of Coleridge.

I'm reading the Notre Dame de Paris concurrently with this book and both books note on the passing of the time and places the building(Notre Dame and the House) as a significant part in the story. Human characters pass swiftly away and leave the buildings behind to witness the changes and the history. However the buildings as well cannot remain safe from the changes as well and thus we feel time moving in different paces. Note how the changes of the house is taken in long descriptive paragraphs and how the events (mainly deaths) of the characters' lives are casually remarked as if in passing. It changes our conventional point of view from having the human beings as the most important characters and the human events as the most important story. It is like how Lily, much to Mr. Bankes' wonder, placed the traditionally sacred mother and child as a mere purplish background and carefully placed the tree instead.

I think Woolf's way of shifting from one character's POV to the other was like a preview of how we could totally move the center of our view to another viewpoint like we move the salt cellar to the middle of the table.

Shifting the point of view is one of the prerequisite to understanding and empathy. I think Mrs. Ramsay's genius lied in how she often shifted her viewpoint to try to understand what the others were feeling and yet her limitations lied in her expression of how she felt that. Lily might be the one who shows her gift in expression of this transcendent nature of our grasp of others.

Susan wrote: "—I remember reading To the Lighthouse for the first time with no idea what was going to happen. Mrs Ramsay’s death came as a complete shock. I was stunned. I had to go back and reread it to be sure I understood correctly. Its impact on me was not reduced by the bracketing...."

Using the brackets is a genius touch! It shows the insignificance of our lives by the passage of the seasons. As you pointed out, the effect is not reduced by it, on the contrary. I've never seen an author killing the leading character in such an incidental way.

This section has a most beautiful "time-lapse" effect and it was so vivid I could smell the decaying odour. Amazing!

Borum wrote: ". Human characters pass swiftly away and leave the buildings behind to witness the changes and the history. However the buildings as well cannot remain safe from the changes as well and thus we feel time moving in different paces. ..."

As you point out, the perspective in this section is very different. I was struck by this statement “…the little airs mounted the staircase and nosed round bedroom doors. But here surely, they must cease. Whatever else may perish and disappear, what lies here is steadfast. Here one might say to those sliding lights, those fumbling airs that breathe and bend over the bed itself, here you can neither touch nor destroy. Upon which, wearily, ghostlily, as if they had feather-light fingers and the light persistency of feathers, they would look, once, on the shut eyes, and the loosely clasping fingers, and fold their garments wearily and disappear.” where the sleeping human beings are described as “steadfast” and somehow untouchable. (Section 2) As events unfold, the irony packed into that ”surely” is staggering.

Mrs Ramsay’s empathy and ability to mediate based on others’ point of view does seem to distinguish her. As you point out, the form of the book with its rapidly changing points of view offers a similar empathy to the reader.

Emil wrote: "Using the brackets is a genius touch! It shows the insignificance of our lives by the passage of the seasons...."

That’s an interesting theory about the brackets. I originally thought they designated events happening in a different location, but the first bracket physically occurs in the house — Mr Carmichael blowing out his candle (Section 2) so I’m still in search of an explanation that fits all the examples.