Talk:Spiny Fish

Merge Spiny Fish with Spiny Cheep Cheep

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

Merge 6-4
It's pretty obvious this is just a one-off redesign, like the "Gabons" from the same game.

Proposer: Binarystep (talk)
Deadline: May 5, 2015, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Binarystep (talk) Now that the name's confirmed, putting my vote back.
2. Burningdragon25 (talk) I do believe that a merge is in order so, OK! Per all!
3. Lumastar (talk) They share the same Japanese name. That's enough for me! Per all.
4. 1337star (talk) Per all.
5. Magikrazy (talk) Per Binarystep.
6. SmokedChili (talk) Here, this picture. (Thanks again Ebay) Spiny Fish = トゲプク = Spiny Cheep Cheep. Name from guide = Name from Wikipedia. Wikipedia = correct. Merge.

Oppose

1. Stonehill (talk) It would be better if this page was moved to Spiny Cheep Cheep (Yoshi's Story).
2. Walkazo (talk) - The Japanese name's unconfirmed and besides, this fish looks very little like Spiny Cheep Cheep; I see little reason to go out of our way to merge it when it has its own English name: the more articles, the better. I even question the Gabon merge, especially now that I see that it should never have passed in the first place: it should have been no quorum.
3. Tails777 (talk) Per Walkazo.
4. Yoshi876 (talk) Per Walkazo.

Comments

@Stonehill: Spiny Fish can't be moved to Spiny Cheep Cheep, as that name is already being used. Magikrazy (talk)

Wait, never mind. I missed the Yoshi's Story part. Magikrazy (talk)

Just so we're clear, Binarystep - are you proposing a merge because of this page's foreign name? LinkTheLefty (talk) 17:10, 1 May 2015 (EDT)

That is correct. Binarystep (talk) 17:04, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

In that case, you may want to rethink your strategy, considering that, according to the person who placed the name there, he grabbed it from either the JP Wikipedia (bad, especially since the name matches) or the Daijiten (slightly less bad but I can't verify that). I'd rather err on the side of caution. Hello, I'm Time Turner.

What even is the Daijiten? Is it seriously just some random Mario Monsters-ish fansite we've been using as a source for some reason? Binarystep (talk) 17:27, 3 May 2015 (EDT)

Basically, yep. It has a good track record, but obviously, we can't take its word on everything. Hello, I'm Time Turner.

Can I change my vote then? Not sure if I can since there's a per vote specifically mentioning me. Binarystep (talk) 03:29, 4 May 2015 (EDT)

You can change your vote, but your original one will need to be slashed through using <s></s> Yoshi876 (talk)

(And SmokedChili saves yet another proposal - I could pretend I knew it was there all along, but that'd be a lie...) In general, I disagree with the "more the merrier" mentality whenever I feel it borders on compromising accuracy - Gabon is almost unambiguously a Spike in every way, and even if the circumstances are a bit iffy, it's not like there was a previous proposal that prevented such action, so it's still a legit merge in a weird way... This fish is something I'm still not entirely sold on, however. For one, it acts much more like one of the aquatic Donkey Kong Country enemies than a Spiny Cheep Cheep, and even though the 3D renders of the N64 era were always a little strange and unrefined, this looks absolutely nothing like its usual design (different shape, size, eyes, etc. like they went out of their way to disconnect it from the previous version). One can also argue that the developers may not have been fully aware of the original enemy, especially considering it's only been in one game at this point, so the intent debate can go either way... On the other hand, I'm far more interested in the fact that SmokedChili's scan directly calls Blurps Pukupuku, the same as ordinary Cheep Cheep, which is almost certainly much more deliberate than Togepuku ever will be. LinkTheLefty (talk) 15:25, 5 May 2015 (EDT)

Just wanted to point out...

Aside from Spike/Gabon, there were other weird designs in this game. Notably, the Spiked Fun Guy, a Pokey Subspecies, looks like some sort of purple gummy bear sea urchin with dragon feet and large lips. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 9:30, 15 May 2017 (EST)

See, that's why Spiny Fish and Spiny Cheep Cheep should've stayed merged. Niiue (talk) 18:55, 23 July 2017 (EDT)

One reason I argued them to be separate is that Yoshi's Story also features another Cheep Cheep variant, the Red Blurp which looks closer to the original design of the Cheep Cheep than the Spiny Fish does, which hardly looks like a Cheep Cheep at all. The Spiked Fun Guy doesn't have a regular Pokey variant in Yoshi's Story to compare to, so I think it's fine to list this as a separate species. Ray Trace^(T|C) 19:13, 23 July 2017 (EDT)

I still don't like that merge spree from back then where it seemed like every fish ended up getting lumped into one article. In my opinion, it just makes things more difficult for navigation without offering much of anything in return besides a dubious amount of "better accuracy". Hello, I'm Time Turner. 19:15, 23 July 2017 (EDT)

But the Cheep-Cheeps (and by extension Blurps) in Yoshi's island are pretty off-model as well (albeit not as badly as in SM64). they have a double-ended tailfin, large orange lips in a scowl, differently placed eyes, and colored fins instead of wings. I'll let the lack of mohawk slide because that was still a bit ambiguous then, but still, they look about as much different. Especially since the Spiny Cheep Cheeps in SMB3 were black with green lips and visible teeth. Now, as for Spiked Fun Guy, a few days ago, a different Japanese name was discovered, lending credence to the ones in YS being different from the original design, and as such them being the same was a translation thing. As for Turner, Flospy Fish is clearly Cheep Cheep, as Super Princess Peach finalized, and Bub was basically proven to be Cheep Cheep with one of the Mario Party Games Now I think the pink Cheep Cheep of SMS should probably be with Boss Bass, but we can't have everything. It's worth noting that Red Blurp/Red Cheep also attacks like a somewhat-lazier Boss Bass. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:21, 23 July 2017.

Actually, open question: is there any harm to having the fish be separate? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 19:23, 23 July 2017 (EDT)

Yes, it's obnoxious and confusing. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 18:24, 23 July 2017.

After the "Harisenbon" from Super Mario Land 2 also turned out to be a Togepuku (Spiny Cheep Cheep), it's only consistent for either that to be re-split or Spiny Fish to be re-merged. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:28, 23 July 2017 (EDT)

I can say a lot more with the similarities of the Red Blurp to Cheep Cheeps than I can to Spiny Fish and Spiny Cheep Cheeps. The general design of the Blurp generally reflects that it is a Cheep Cheep, with its red coloration, white belly, and yellow tail fins; it has as much in common as it does with regular Cheep Cheeps as much as Gabons do with Spike. Here, the Spiny Fish has none of those traits that make it resemble a Cheep Cheep. It is purple with no white belly, the eyes are circular rather than elliptical, there are no fins, the eyes are placed higher in relation to the lips, and it's not even called a "Spiny Blurp", in a game that has different variations of Blurps, with Blue Blurp being one of them. I still think these appearance differences and the name inconsistency is enough to keep this article split from Spiny Fish, despite sharing the same Japanese name. Ray Trace^(T|C) 19:29, 23 July 2017 (EDT)