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". -, "..... MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

\ \\. \\:\\E\~nt: -, .

\\. \\ \ ..\tZY~"~fEv~nt~" Intervie~'~f I

.. ..lspecial Agent, Washington Field Office)

\ \ ri'a~~\;~lY ;~o~
.., 28,

, \, \ SP~I~·A~:~~. Issues·;···NOI).e

\ \.~rep~.b~~"" ~;tQael Jaco~~~h.

\ ;~\ n~~:-\'6 \'" .

\~oc~on: FBr; ...Washington.FieldOffice

~~~ip"ants NO~'~'Co~ritiSSiO~';"ASSiStant Gener~"G~unsel Bob Sinton

PaAicip~ts - COm~ijlSio~·:··-,Bar~:~a, -,Grewe and MiC~~~lJ acobson

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\ \\, ~~kg~~bDd a~~'CprreDt squad as~;~riineDt

\1 \.loined the F~I -,as a\llpport:~·ite.rson in 1973. He wa~~l1ed in law

school at night; and after completinglaw school.he became a Special Agent. While
working as a s~~port person at'the FBII lwarS.,originally assigned as a'clerk in the
intelligence division for approximately twoyears. H~ then transferred to the Civi]
Litigation Unit at\~BrnQ, where I1~ worked essentially.as a paralegal. Back thenj .. - ...... I
noted, it was comnif>n for individual~ to work as supportpersonnel so that they could
become FBI agents.1. h>ecame~. agent in September<~.9791 and has been assigned
to the Washington Field Office for the entire time since then:1 btated that he has a
Bachelors degree from University of Massachusetts at Amherst, a Masters degree from
Georgetown, and a J.D. from George Mason, which he received in 1979.

His first assignment as a agent was towork on applicant investigations. He

worked applicants for about a year, before transferring to a squad working criminal fraud
matters. He also worked bank robberies during tl:l;attime. He was assigned to a foreign
counterintelligence squad in 1983, and worked FCI. matters until April 2002, when he
transferred to an international terrorism squad. During his time on the FeI squad, he
worked as the principal relief supervisor for 8 years, SQ he knows about paperwork and .
process issues. He has been working in an undercover ·c.~pacity for a number of years
now. The operation started out as a FeI undercover ope~tion. but since 9111, it's been
redirected and they are primarily targeting IT tarnets now.·l lfirst IT souad was IT-

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. .
~iSSiTD of curre~t. ~quad

His souad has r .

;::
;ibilitv rdr investigations]
\_----------- I
iii His squad has made tremendous inroads. and they
have learned some interesting facts]

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IThis has never been a big problem in the past,
inl j/lew. ;

! ! FBI undercover operations

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I (t~~o~ from his supervisor as to whom they should target. These,

will discuss how eration can help them in targeting individuals of investigative

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interest to the squad. stated that he has also been called to assist other FBI offices,
including New York and Chicago, Who need to make use of this "investigative
technique." In both of these cases, he found out about the field offices' interest from
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\ \ ,\"'"", -.'FBlliQ. He has~~ ~~I;'from~thers ~ffices about his operation as well. L.A. and
• ,\.. \... Hou~tol;! have asked him about hisoperation. He thinks that they either found out about
\. \::" -... it from HQ.~r through word of mouth. TheY-'ve·ac.t~al1y been overwhelmed with requests
\. \;" \for assistance., \ -

\ \\,\.""', .., They do·;~i'dQ,:.'fish.ingexpeditidps" i,n,the undercover':;;;~tio~:~Said that

\\'" the supervisor WIll make-ultimately makedecisions as to whether mvestigations are
\. ...
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opened.vfhey do have "targets of opportunity," however, in their operation. For
\. . \\.example, '~ey might go to a seminar and carne across someone of possible interest. They
\. "Win write up.thecontacts and thenforwardito the appropriate squad. The squad would
\. ilWn have to let him know or his supervisor.know whether they are interested in this
\. in·4·~vidual. The'squad is currently overwiie~ed in terms of the number of cases. They
\ don::,~have time to-conduct fishing expeditio~s-J boted. If he came across someone
\ already under investigation, he would refer tile matter to that squad.

\ \'h lwill ini;;~t-<:investigations, bas~ on the people he meets, and will provide
\ this documentation to his supervisor, In somecases, with particularly sensitive
\. individuals or cases, they wlt~ the information to FBlliQ for HQ to make the
\,decision as\to how to pr' : i cal he
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fie thinks HQ has rejected requests in
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.....e""""c-,an~t-r-em--e-m ....\He does recall that it was when he was
.....e-r-an-y--sp-e-c-l.,....ca"""""y
on '~is old squad:r--1noted that he has contac4 land that when he
mee.\s."",.
these types~le he notifies HQ. '
HQ Centralization

" has not seen any evidence of the reported post-9fll HQ centralization. In
terms of his interaction with HQ, they will consider notifying HQ when they come across
something sensitive, or a "borderline" individual. They notify HQ because it's prudent
and the wise administrative thing to do.

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\ \. \.. " -. Interactio'ii'with other squads and other FBI offices

. \\\ """'...::,'" ""'1f th~ ~~~i'Vtdl!a1S are actua;IY'~;;;:;Ui'iSts,.itmight be directed to the JTIF as a
\ """ criminalinvestigationbut he's not sure. He doesnotknow the protocol for shifting a
\ ...... case to-the I1J'F, but thinks-that they will handle potentially violent criminals. His squad
\\ ~dl~ ~th cilt11inal and intetli~ce classifications (203 ~d:265,~,laslsificati~
\.;. \ mvestigations, but.he's not sure about the breakdown between the two': ows to a
"\ \, degrelwhat''s,~o. ing on on his squad. ··He.~sbriefed by his supervisor about once a week.
.\. said thatone difference, post 9/11, is-that there can be criminal cases and
\ intelligence cases-on thesame squad. When he-was in Chicago, assisting agents in that
\ field office, he wasworkingwith the intelligence and not criminal agents.
~ - '\ ..... . ........

Agents fro nd asking for help.

Agents working 0 ave all asked for his
assistance. His squa oes .a WIt 6t-. er 0 Ices as we ,particularly when they are
covering leads for that office. ··\.they lookat leads differently now than they did prior to
9/11. Now they consider them much morecarefully in terms of prioritization. The
mentality has changed because they.need to look at everything more carefully. Leads
\. would be assigned now based on therelationship'to that agent's work. If an agent is

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\ working on a related case, they would be assigned ci·p~~ad. Otherwise, it would
\. be assigned based on the experience level-of the ageni:~oes not know whether
\ leads still are grouped by whether they are "priority," routine," or "immediate." There
\are cases where leads are not sent directly to th.e squad. For example, HQ might send a
1ead to an ASAC who would then bring it to a supervisor to assign. Or, the SAC might
get a call from someone about a particular lead. \'"

\ Whether or not to seek a FISA on a Particul~>iarget is not up to him, it would be

the decision of the case agent. He might contribute intelligence to a FISA, but doesn't
open FISAs himself. He might make recommendations about targets, but the focus are
active, current subjects of investigative interest. Ifhe thought. that someone was a good
investigative target, he would go to the supervisor of the squad'~ronsib~e ,for that
country. He would then tell them about the person that they met. . eiterated that
this Was not a fishing expedition: he goes out and meets people and then determines
whet~er or not they are of investigative interest, .

'1 kould be "clued in" if there were a FISA on a particular individual with
whom he was meeting. He would ask for this information, and it would help him in his
investigation. When he is dealing with any other squad or office, he asks whether or not
there is any "coverage" of these people. He needs to know that. If the target is on his
squad, the person handling the FISA "cuts" would let him know. If the target was being
handled on another squad at WFO, he would not be notified automatically. He would ask

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that squad. There is really no system to log into to find out all of this information, He
would much rather sit down with the case agents and discuss their investigation .

SECRET
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The information ~eveloped
far as receiving CIA, or ~SA infonn)ltion~f th;
Secret information he might discuss i,itwi
~rad
the ~ndercover ~Jeration is generally "Secret." As
~upervisor sees relevant Top
H~ does not recall this actually
happening ~ Perhaps this would occur I t e sllP~sor read something on one of
his targets.l-Jdoes not task other agencies for information on his targets. His
supervisor ~eep~ track <if
inforrnatiO~ and lets him ~ow ~hen something is relevan~
.Th~ superv~sor IS well 'ware of wha~ Is workJ.ng on. s more of a "receIver"
. i
of InformatIon. oes n have acc ss to Intelink,
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He comes.to :a.._-t-o-wn-t-e--tl""'ll"'n-g-s-u-p-.

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. His operation has not been affect~'bY .; impedimenjg, ..... ~~;;:.w~"Ii..:ri~t;,:"",. ...

roblems in terms of what the have wanted theIr assets to do.

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P---------------------------~ He is concerned that this individual
might want to call him-as a character witness ror the defense. They wrote him an email
distancing themselves from him after the arrest, and they hope it wil1 work. In terms of
his own targeting, they haven't run into legal problems. He has spoken to imams. He
was told by.his supervisor not to go after this/after, but it was probably just a regular
imam

e
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/ -: The Patriot Act has helped though i~ loosening some of the restrictions on the
······FBI. FISA applicants have been indirectljheIPed by the loosening.

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'.\ '\\' •.\,',,', -. ." "·1

!does not know whether the standard for initiating preliminary inquiries has
changed since 9/11. He thinks that it probably has. It's not overly difficult to get a P.I. if
.\ '\ you have. s{ecifiC ,artiCUlable facts. He hasn't been given any training on the new
\ \ ... guidelines' does not have any of his own cases; he does not carry a case load. He
\ \ ..thinks that ifhe did, he would be given additional training, or would be directed to the
\ ·~~Ual.

",.\ \,\ Training

\\ \\:rhere was no training in counterterrorism matters when he went through the FBI
\. academy ..new agent training. There is still no formal IT training. His supervisor just
\ sends things his way to read and he tries to read as much as he can on his own. He did
'\. attend a two..week undercover school, which has all types of undercover operations mixed'
\. into one. In the past, it is true that the criminal agents looked down on the intelligence
\ agents. This has changed since 9111. The attitude has diminished, and the IT agents are
\ now receiving p'c~r reception. He doesn't know whether the ratings system have
\. changed, so that agents working IT matters can promoted as easily as agents working
\. criminal matters. ire decided a long time ago that he didn't care, and didn't want to go to
\ HQ. He likes having-his freedom in the field, and having the ability to work on
\. investigations. He does, think that even working FeI prior to 9/11, if you worked the
\ right kind of cases you could "write your own ticket" in terms of the career track.

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\ ....
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...FBI focDs on counterterrorism

\ There is a much greater-focus on CT at the FBI now. No one expected the FBI to
change as fast as it did. He think{) that the Director is doing a great job. This change has
helped merge people together. W'E used more divided between criminal and
intelligence than it is now., WFO is a good example of how word has
filtered down to the field.o Ices about the message.

\ ///// Recomm~~';r'ations for Change

\1
h~/aSked what else needed t~'~e done at the FBI. He thinks that they
need a greater ..degree of support from FBlliQ. \::rhe timeliness ofHQ's decisions have a
great impact.on their investigations. Going back\~ 5 years, there has always been a degree
of'tensionbetween the field and HQ. It is better now. Maybe they should assign more
experienced agents to HQ to address this situation. '~om~ime§ they bllXc lIgents al ~Q
with little ex erience. For exam Ie one of the new SSA~ J
. .There\va ...s-an-ot~h-er-oc-c-as-l!"'"·
o-n-w-h-e-n"'H~Q
se~ im In onna 0., at was, tr: years old. HQ has sometimes been the place

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f9t the "ticket P911chers" and wher~.thefe are inexperience'cl~..~ He doesn't know
.. .whether thissituation has gottenany better. OveraJl, thou~aid that the attitudes
/ ./ at the Fal·have definitely-changed since 9111 .

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