DAILY

YOUR VOICE IN PARLIAMENT

THE SECOND
THE FIRST MEETING
MEETING OF THE
OF THE FIFTH
FIFTH SESSION
SESSION
OF ELEVENTH
OF THE THE ELEVENTH PARLIAMENT
PARLIAMENT
TUESDAY
WEDNESDAY1312
FRIDAY NOVEMBER
07 APRIL 20192018
NOVEMBER 2018

ENGLISH VERSION
HANSARD NO. 192

DISCLAIMER
Unofficial Hansard
This transcript of Parliamentary proceedings is an unofficial version of the Hansard and may contain inaccuracies. It
is hereby published for general purposes only. The final edited version of the Hansard will be published when
available and can be obtained from the Assistant Clerk (Editorial).
 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER
The Hon. Gladys K. T. Kokorwe PH, MP.
DEPUTY SPEAKER
The Hon. Kagiso P. Molatlhegi, MP Gaborone South

Clerk of the National Assembly -- Ms B. N. Dithapo

Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly -- Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe
Learned Parliamentary Counsel -- Ms M. Mokgosi
Assistant Clerk (E) -- Mr R. Josiah
CABINET
His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP -- President

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP. (Boteti West) -- Vice President

Hon. F. S. Van Der Westhuizen, MP. (Kgalagadi South) -- Minister of Local Government and Rural Development

Hon. D. K. Makgato, MP. (Sefhare - Ramokgonami) -- Minister of Transport and Communications

-- Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public

Hon. N. E. Molefhi, MP. (Selebi Phikwe East)
Administration

Hon. S. Kgathi, MP. (Bobonong) -- Minister of Defence, Justice and Security

-- Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and
Hon. O. K. Mokaila, MP. (Specially Elected)
Tourism
Hon. B. Arone, MP. (Okavango) -- Minister of Basic Education
Hon. M. N. Ngaka, MP (Takatokwane) -- Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs

Hon. O. K. Matambo, MP. (Specially Elected) -- Minister of Finance and Economic Development

Hon. V. T. Seretse, MP. (Lentsweletau - Mmopane) -- Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development

Hon. T. Olopeng, MP. (Tonota) -- Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology
Hon. Dr U. Dow, MP. (Specially Elected) -- Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation
-- Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills
Hon. T. Mabeo, MP. (Thamaga - Kumakwane)
Development
Hon. Dr A. Madigele, MP. (Mmathethe -
-- Minister of Health and Wellness
Molapowabojang)
-- Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Energy
Hon. E. M. Molale, MP. (Specially Elected)
Security
Hon. K. Mzwinila, MP. (Mmadinare) -- Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services
Hon. T. S. Khama, MP. (Serowe West) -- Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development

Hon. P. P. Ralotsia, MP. (Kanye North) -- Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security

Hon. B. J. Kenewendo, MP. (Specially Elected) -- Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry
Hon. B. M. Tshireletso, MP. (Mahalapye East) -- Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development
Hon. M. M. Goya, MP. (Palapye) -- Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry
-- Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture
Hon. D. P. Makgalemele, MP. (Shoshong)
Development
-- Assistant Minister, Tertiary Education, Research, Science and
Hon. F. M. M. Molao, MP (Shashe West)
Technology

Hon. K. K. Autlwetse, MP (Serowe North) -- Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development

Hon. G. B. Butale, MP. (Tati West) -- Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness

Hon. T. Kwerepe, MP. (Ngami) -- Assistant Minister, Basic Education

-- Assistant Minister, Land Management, Water and Sanitation

Hon. I. E. Moipisi, MP. (Kgalagadi North)
Services
-- Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public
Hon. M. R. Shamukuni, MP (Chobe)
Administration
Hon. K. Markus, MP. (Maun East) -- Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Security
 MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES

Names Constituency

RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party)

Hon. Dr P. Venson-Moitoi, MP Serowe South
Hon. S. M. Guma, MP Tati East
Hon. C. De Graaff, MP Ghanzi South
Hon. P. M. Maele, MP Lerala - Maunatlala
Hon. L. Kablay, MP Letlhakeng - Lephephe
Hon. S. Lelatisitswe, MP Boteti East
Hon. J. Molefe, MP Mahalapye West
Hon. P. Majaga, MP Nata-Gweta
Hon. M. I. Moswaane, MP Francistown West
Hon. B. H. Billy, MP Francistown East
Hon. E. J. Batshu, MP Nkange
Hon. S. Kebonang, MP Lobatse
Hon. K. S. Gare, MP Moshupa-Manyana
Hon. M. R. Reatile, MP Specially Elected
OPPOSITION
(Umbrella for Democratic Change)
Hon. Adv. D. G. Boko, MP (Leader of Opposition) Gaborone Bonnington North
Hon. G. S. M. Mangole, MP Mochudi West
Hon. A. S. Kesupile, MP Kanye South
Hon. N. S. L. M. Salakae, MP Ghanzi North
Hon. Dr. T. O. M. Mmatli, MP Molepolole South
Hon. S. Ntlhaile, MP Jwaneng -Mabutsane
Hon. M. I. Khan, MP Molepolole North
Hon. Kgosi Lotlamoreng II Goodhope - Mabule
Hon. D. L. Keorapetse, MP Selebi Phikwe West
Hon. S. O. S. Rantuana, MP Ramotswa
Hon. K. M. Segokgo, MP Tlokweng
Hon. B. M. Molebatsi, MP Mochudi East
Hon. H. G. Nkaigwa, MP Gaborone North
(Alliance for Progressives)
Hon. W. B. Mmolotsi, MP Francistown South
Hon. Maj. Gen. P. Mokgware, MP Gabane-Mmankgodi
Hon. N. N. Gaolathe, MP Gaborone Bonnington South
Hon. S. Kgoroba, MP Mogoditshane
Hon. Dr P. Butale, MP Gaborone Central
(Independent Member of Parliament)
Hon. T. Moremi, MP Maun West
 TABLE OF CONTENTS
THE SECOND MEETING OF THE FIFTH SESSION
OF THE ELEVENTH PARLIAMENT
FRIDAY12 APRIL, 2019

CONTENTS PAGE (S)

SPEAKER’S ANNOUNCEMENTS.............................................................................................................1 - 2

MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME...............................................................................................................3 - 11

Regulation of Geomatics Industry

Motion (Resumed Debate)......................................................................................................................12 - 14
Friday 11th April 2019 SPEAKER’S ANNOUNCEMENTS

Friday 12th April, 2019 (4) National Assembly (Salaries and Allowances)
(Amendment) Bill, 2019 (No. 10 of 2019)
THE ASSEMBLY met at 09:00 a.m.
The object of the Bill is to amend the National Assembly
(THE SPEAKER in the Chair) (Salaries and Allowances) to among others adjust the
PRAY E R S salaries of Members, delink the salaries of Members
from the Public Service structure, to adjust Members’s
**** allowances and to provide for a different sitting
allowance for the Speaker that is different from that of
SPEAKER’S ANNOUNCEMENTS other Members.
MR SPEAKER (MR MOLATLHEGI): Order! (5) Ntlo ya Dikgosi (Salaries and Allowances)
Good morning Honourable Members. Go to your seats (Amendment) Bill, 2019 (No. 8 of 2019)
Honourable Members. Welcome back Honourable
Tshireletso, Honourable Gare and Honourable Arone. The object of the Bill is to amend the Ntlo ya Dikgosi
Honourable Members, good morning once again. We (Salaries and Allowances) (Amendment) Act in order to
have come to the end of the Second Meeting of the 5th adjust the salaries by 4 per cent.
Session of the 11th Parliament. Order! There is noise! (6) Specified Offices (Salaries and Allowances)
Honourable Members, as you may be all aware that (Amendment) Bill, 2019 (No. 7 of 2019)
we have come to the end of the Second Meeting of the
5th Session of the 11th Parliament, I therefore wish to The object of the Bill is to amend the Specified Offices
congratulate you on the work done and inform you that (Salaries and Allowances) Act to adjust the salaries of
Parliament Business was transacted as follows during specified offices with effect from 1st April 2019.
the meeting;
(7) Judicial Services (Amendment) Bill, 2019 (No.
Government Bills 9 of 2019)

Nine Government Bills were received, eight of which The object of the Bill is to amend the Judicial Services
were passed by Parliament, and one was withdrawn. The Act in order to give effect to the four per cent increase
in salaries.
Bills that were passed are as follows:
(8) Stock Theft (Amendment) Bill, 2018 (No. 30 of
(1) Appropriation (2019/2020) Bill, 2019 (No. 1 of
2018)
2019)
The object of the Bill is to amend the Stock Theft Act
The object of the Bill is to appropriate money from (Cap. 09:01) by amongst others, increasing the penalties
the Consolidated Fund and Development Fund for the for contravention of the Act and providing for the
Financial Year ending 31st March, 2020. confiscation of instruments used in the commission of
stock theft.
(2) Supplementary Appropriation (2017/2018) Bill,
2019 (No. 4 of 2019) Private Member’s Bills

The object of the Bill is to make provision to meet Three Private Members’ Bills were received, one of
expenditure incurred from Consolidated Fund in excess which was passed by Parliament. The debate on the
of the amount appropriated through the Appropriation Second Reading of one was adjourned, and the other
(2017/2018) Act, 2017. was rejected by Parliament.

Parliament passed the Electoral Amendment (Repeal)

(3) Prisons (Amendment) Bill, 2018 (No. 33 of
Bill, 2018 (No. 36 of 2018) whose objective is to repeal
2018)
the Electoral (Amendment) Act, No. 7 of 2016.
The object of the Bill is to amend Section 9 of the
Government Resolution
Prisons (Amendment) Act, No. 14 of 2018 to remove
the staggered retirement ages for the various ranks in the The Honourable House also considered and approved
Prison Service, by aligning the provision with Section the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure from the
15A of the Police (Amendment) Act, No 20 of 2018. Consolidated Fund- Financial Paper No. 3 of 2017/2018.

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 Friday 11th April 2019 SPEAKER’S ANNOUNCEMENTS

Questions seems like we are about to go into questions but they do

not have a procedure. I heard you saying very good words
478 Questions were received, 318 of which were some of which have to do with salaries. This morning,
answered by the Honourable Ministers. The remaining one Member of Parliament, Honourable Ntlhaile went to
will be answered in our next sitting, the Winter Meeting. Duma FM to say things that did not make sense but from
Private Member’s Motions there he will be earning that money rather than donate
it to Mpule Kwelagobe Foundation. If he does not want
• 20 Private Member’s Motions were received it, he should donate it to Mpule Kwelagobe Foundation.
during the Meeting, two Motions were adopted by Thank you Mr Speaker.
Parliament and two were rejected.
MR SPEAKER: No, order! A Member of Parliament
• This Honourable House adopted the following two never talks nonsense. He was expressing his point of
Motions: view so embrace it. It is his own opinion. Do not fight.
Honourable Molefhi has done a wonderful job for you
(i) “That this Honourable House requests Government
so just thank him and not fight.
to reconsider its decision to stop the use of plastic
bags and come up with a policy for the collection MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND
of the plastic levy.” SECURITY (MR KGATHI): On a point of clarification.
Mr Speaker, thank you for giving us an update on how
(ii) “That this Honourable House requests Government
we performed in the just ended session. I did not hear you
to amend the Constitution to allow direct election
mentioning that after being interrogated by Members of
of the President and for appointment of Ministers
Parliament and Government we succeeded in reviewing
from candidates outside Parliament.”
the conditions of service for the Police, soldiers and
Papers Tabled Prisons but it is one of the things we executed very well.

24 papers (Reports/Statutory Instruments) were tabled MR SPEAKER: No, Honourable Kgathi, you might
before Parliament. Thank you Honourable Members, let recall that the amendment of soldiers and police was
presented in the Committee of Supply submission
us proceed.
under the Appropriation Bill. Appropriation Bill covers
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure! all your good work. I believe that when I say we have
done Appropriation Bill 2019/2020, a person who reads
MR SPEAKER: Ah! How could you say procedure submissions of Committee of Supply, will find all
while I am standing? Do you want me to sit down? ministries which submitted during that period.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible).... MR KGATHI: Further point of procedure. Honourable

Tshireletso was saying something very substantial. So…
MR SPEAKER: Ok, speak.
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)…
MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (DR
MR KGATHI: Mr Speaker, you need to put it into
MADIGELE): On a point of procedure. The media
context the words said by Honourable Tshireletso,
team is outside, maybe they should be called in so that
if it is procedural that if Parliament has agreed here
they capture what you are saying. unanimously and then one Member isolates himself
MR SPEAKER: No, I am only addressing you and says things as if Parliament did not agree on that,
is it procedural? I want to understand that if we agree
in Parliament, I am commending you Honourable
collectively, we are a House, it is binding, so can
Members. Those who are here can hear, do not worry.
someone go out to distort what we agreed on?
I commend you for the good work that you did during
the session that is ending. Honourable Members, let us HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)…
proceed, we have two Minister’s questions. The first one
is from Honourable Honest Buti Billy. MR SPEAKER: No, you know what, order! I want
us to finish this matter about Honourable Ntlhaile so
ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL that we can continue with questions. There is nothing
GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT wrong with what Honourable Ntlhaile said, it is his own
(MS TSHIRELETSO): On a point of procedure. It opinion.

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Friday 11th April 2019 MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME

HONOURABLE MEMBER: No, procedure Mr MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molao, Honourable

Speaker. Tshireletso, please.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order sir. MS TSHIRELETSO: We have just met this side.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: No, go outside if at all you just met.
Go and talk outside. Proceed Honourable Molefhi.
MR SPEAKER: No, you cannot do that. When did you
start arguing with me? There is no need for you to do MR MOLEFHI: Presently, the development of three
that. Honourable Ntlhaile was expressing his views so clusters has taken off. These are; tourism, principally
leave him alone. It is his right to express his views. We in Ngamiland, beef from Molopo to Sandveld and
are now proceeding, we are no longer going to dwell on finance and knowledge intensive business services
those issues. Honourable Billy proceed. around Gaborone. The clusters will help the much need
sophistication of businesses. The higher education
MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME cluster will also be pursued as a priority area in the
MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL financial year 2019/2020 and the focus will be around
AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC Gaborone initially.
ADMINISTRATION The project is being implemented in collaboration with
THEME: THE CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT partner ministries; Ministry of Environment, National
MODEL IN FRANCISTOWN Resources Conservation and Tourism; for tourism,
Ministry of Agricultural Development and Food
MR BILLY (FRANCISTOWN EAST): I want the Security, for beef and Ministry of Investment Trade and
Honourable Minister to state opportunities presented Industry, for finance and knowledge intensive business
for the city of Francistown by the Cluster Development services. Mr Speaker, in area of mining cluster, one of
Model. He should state whether the beef sector is the priority areas identified by the Cluster Development
still relevant after the closure of the Botswana Meat Initiative is mining. That presents an opportunity for
Commission (BMC). He should also explain about the Francistown since it is located in a mining area. This
transport sector, because it seems like roads are not cluster will therefore, be further developed.
being quickly developed. He should also explain about
the tourism sector. It is like nothing is being done in the Mr Speaker, there is also an opportunity for Francistown
mining sector. Thank you. and the region around it in the development of tourism
cluster that will extend to the Ngami area. One of the
MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, key improvement areas for the tourism cluster is product
GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION development, including food supply into the cluster.
(MR MOLEFHI): Good morning Mr Speaker. Beef from Francistown area will be part of the value
Eventhough someone said when you enter we should chain for beef cluster.
lower our voices.
Furthermore, Francistown through the Francistown
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… College of Vocational and Technical Education, can
position itself to provide specialised training for the
MR MOLEFHI: Mr Speaker, Government has adopted tourism cluster in which skills development is a great
the cluster development initiative in an effort to diversify challenge.
the economy and improve the country’s competitiveness
in industrial clusters, as industrial clusters have been With respect to the ongoing tourism cluster initiative, the
found to contribute immensely to economic growth and Francistown region is closer to the market that is being
competitiveness for most developed and developing developed for the tourism sector around the Okavango,
Ngami areas. Therefore, beef from the region could be
countries across the globe.
supplied to that area.
Presently, the development of three clusters has taken
In the case of replication of tourism model in
off. These are tourism…
Francistown region, the area can also benefit from the
MR BILLY: Mr Speaker, there is a disturbance this development of tourism cluster which will go a long way
side, I cannot hear properly. in improving the value chains in the sector, especially in

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 Friday 11th April 2019 MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME

terms of recreation, conservation and supplies required MR MOREMI: Thank you Mr Speaker. I just wanted to
in the tourism sites. The area that can be development enquire about the tangibility of this cluster issue. There
within the cluster catchment area include inter alia was a time when the Government was not taking part
Makgadikgadi, Nata, Goo-Moremi, Dombashaba, and there was an issue of “backlog,” and as time went
Patayamatebele including Tachila Nature Reserve. by, the Government changed the name of the backlog
BEEF CLUSTER and called it the Economic Stimulus Programme (ESP),
saying there will now be a new programme referred to as
Opportunities will exist once the Beef cluster is ESP. Meaning that the Government would now be doing
replicated in other areas including the Francistown what she has not been doing in the past years.
region. The private sector is expected to play a leading
role and spread opportunities within the beef value chain. There was also an issue about a “hub,” it was said the
Although the pilot exercise does not currently cater for Government would establish hubs, and I am not sure
Francistown City and the region, we anticipate success on exactly what it is that was going to be done. Now it seems
the replication of the project. Another opportunity arises the Government has turned its back on this issue again,
from the horizontal policies that will emerge from the
and they are now referring to them as clusters. Now I
ongoing clusters, for example, targeted Foreign Direct
Investment (FDI) policy and entrepreneurship policy. am wondering; if it is being said we have come up with
Improvement in the entrepreneurship and innovation a cluster development model, have we actually done
ecosystem will have an impact beyond the Financial something or we are just changing the nomenclature
and Knowledge Intensive Business Services (FKIBS) from hub to clusters. Now if I may ask Mr Speaker, in
Cluster in Gaborone, and will benefit more geographical regard to hubs, does it mean there is anything different
areas including the Francistown and its environs.
that has been done, which we are now giving a model
FINANCIAL AND KNOWLEDGE INTENSIVE which we are referring to as clusters? When it is being
BUSINESS SERVICES said we should identify the private sector as engine of
growth, was this not being done before? I am kind of
Development of the Finance and Knowledge
confused by such terminologies, and I am wondering
intensive business services sector can lead to the
what is different now, which we deem viable to be done,
growth of the Small Micro and Medium Enterprises
such that we would say we have garnered strength from
(SMMEs), Information Communication Technology
somewhere, we are on a new initiative which would
(ICTs) as wells as improve general business services
yield different results from the ones we have been seeing
and entrepreneurship in the city. Establishment of
from the past initiatives which we referred to as hubs.
Companies will foster business spill overs resulting in
widening employment opportunities, wealth creation MR MOLEFHI: Mr Speaker, it is not correct to say
and improved living standards. It is also worthy to backlog eradication was renamed ESP, because even
note that the current establishments pursued under the in the ESP there was backlog eradication, there were
finance and knowledge intensive business services in new projects which had nothing to do with backlog
Gaborone are also in existence in Francistown, and eradication. Hubs, clusters; when we define the scope
what remains to be done is to improve the sector by of cluster initiative, we refer to congruence and
developing specialised services. The country aspires
convergence. Consolidation of resources appropriation
to move to a higher income status, and development of
through joint planning to promote specific sectors
a higher education cluster in future, will facilitate the
which are believed and have the potential to yield good
tourism beef, FKIBS sector in the region with requisite
skills in developing the economy. economic returns, we are developing composite plans
through joint planning, by or through the use of thematic
Mr Speaker, the cluster approached elaborates the working groups. At the time of conceptualisation of
industrial development policy and the diversification hubs, those were sectorial, we would say transport and
strategy in the Botswana excellence strategy that
consider it as an isolated action area. When we talk
endeavors to reduce economic dependence on diamond
revenue as well as promote private sector as the engine about clusters, we are bringing together relevant and
of economic growth. Economic clusters will enable associated organisms, arrangements, resources so that
the private sector to play a more significant role as the we are able to deliver on a bigger picture than on a sub-
initiative is private sector led. I thank you sir. sectorial provision.

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Friday 11th April 2019 MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME

MR MOREMI: Point of clarification. I actually wanted what is also needed for it to grow and in the processes
to add the one on Thematic Working Groups (TWGs) expand our economy? That is where we are going
between a period when we were establishing hubs; because we have been solely relying on the government
we started with hubs and then included the Thematic to manage all businesses. We are now saying that the
Working Groups, now we have shifted to clusters. private sector should take part and manage some. When
So you have shifted from the mindset of working in we talk about issues of finance and knowledge intensive
silos, and now you are working as a team, operating business services, those services cannot only be
in congruence. Is that what you are saying, or is there managed by government. People can make Applications
something that we are going to see being established and (App) which apply on both government services and
being referred to as a cluster? those of the private sector even when they are not under
government. So, branches of government are supporting
MR MOLEFHI: No, we are not going to see anything entrepreneurs as facilitators, not ownership of these
there being referred to as a cluster; we are just finding
clusters by Government.
out which ones are in line with the facilitation of
tourism, those that would assist in the growth of In the past, the private sector has been slow. So, how
tourism. How can we bring them closer to each other do we create impetus through the private sector
so that tourism would yield better results? Does this
involvement in the realisation of the cluster initiative?
tourism require communication; and when we talk about
They have made presentations to the Cabinet, as the
communication, what exactly are we referring to? Are
private sector, on all the areas we have just mentioned;
we referring to internet, airplanes or roads? Therefore,
mining, tourism businesses, finance and agriculture, that
what are the responsible agencies or ministries doing
they want to take part so that that everything is not being
to ensure that when we talk about tourism, resources
should be given to them such that when we are at the done by the government.
TWGs, how would we ensure that we do not operate MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moremi again. We are left
in silos; standing alone as a particular ministry, dealing with six minutes so be quick.
with things under me; not willing to work with others.
MR MOREMI: Mr Speaker and Minister, what are we
MR MOSWAANE: Point of procedure. Mr Speaker,
going to do because it seems like entrepreneurs often
since this House is in progress, yet the journalists are
outside; is it procedural for us to keep them there? make their own innovation? Someone might create his
or her own Apps to help in the distribution of Tsabana.
MR SPEAKER: No, they were not put there by me. I So, what are you going to do because most of the times
can see the media in their booth that side; others under
when this person approaches you, you will then tell
Government are also up there. So I do not know which
ones you are talking about Honourable Member. I can him or her to wait while you go and draft a tender so
see the ones we always work with in the House. that others can also be given an opportunity to tender
for a developed App? The government has been talking
MR MOSWAANE: No, Mr Speaker, I saw a bunch of about elevating the private sector but I do not know how
them sitting by the door.
she is going to achieve that. The government has been
MR SPEAKER: No, just leave them alone Honourable saying that developing Apps is a huge burden, so she has
Member. bestowed that responsibility to the private sector but the
government will still tell people to wait while drafting
MR MOSWAANE: Pardon?
an Invitation to Tender (ITT) so that others can also be
MR SPEAKER: Ignore those ones, you do not know given a chance.
what they are here for; I do not know why they are here
either. If they have come here for Parliament business, MR MOLEFHI: There is an ongoing initiative to try
they will come inside. Honourable Minister, let us and have a programme which will focus on unsolicited
proceed. bids, so that when someone comes up with an idea like
that, we assess it and see if it corresponds with that we
MR MOLEFHI: I was still saying, clusters are meant want. If one Ministry agrees with what has been placed
to bring similar ideas together and issuing appropriate before it, there is provision within the procurement
resources. When we talk about the rearing of livestock, roles which can allow them to say, “No, we are making
for it to bear good profit, what is it that we should do, selective tendering, preferred, or whatsoever.” Those are

Hansard No 193 5
 Friday 11th April 2019 MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME

the discussions which are ongoing between government for permission from the Land Board when he or she
and the private sector in order to see how we are going to wants to change land use, turning a field into a rearing
accept unsolicited bids without them being interrupted areas. Those are the things that we are dealing with.
and or any suspicions of corruption. Constructing a dam nowadays is no longer an issue, you
do not have to apply because the land has been allocated,
We are slow to make some decisions in order to avoid it is yours. You do not have to ask for permission to
situations whereby such decisions will be linked to change its land use but you can change it anyhow if
corruption saying, “how did that person know that those it will benefit you. Therefore, we are saying that the
services are required in the government for him or her Government should be a key facilitator, not an investor
to be presenting them?” Those instances do happen. in these economic activities.
There is an initiative to have discussions between the
government and the private sector to try and see how we MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Members. The
are going to win these grey areas if we are to move with next question is by Honourable Dr Phenyo Butale.
rapidity into creating the right environment for business
MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND
and economic growth.
SECURITY (MR KGATHI): Mr Speaker, procedure,
MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister. just before the question.
Honourable Ntlhaile, we are left with two minutes.
MR SPEAKER: Yes, what is the procedure?
MR NTLHAILE: Yes Sir. I actually wanted a
MR KGATHI: Mr Speaker, when I was outside,
clarification from the Minister regarding making people from the Media sent me to request you to free
the private sector the key drivers. This means that Honourable Ntlhaile so that he can go and explain if he
it corresponds with privatisation. What areas of the was sent by the Committee or people from Mabutsane
economy have you identified to be managed by the since he is in a Committee which talks about the rights
private sector, have you made it open? Are they going to of Members of Parliament. They want to know if those
get involved in everything even in areas which require were his words or he was sent by someone. They asked
the government’s management? I want you to clarify me to ask you to allow him to go outside because they
that one. want to meet the deadline.

MR MOLEFHI: When we talk about clusters, we are HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)...

saying, “ the government should not be the one running
MR SPEAKER: No, if they want him they will talk to
the tourism business” we are saying, “ as government, him directly just like when they called him to the radio.
how are we assisting people who are into the tourism Let us proceed Honourable Members. Dr Butale!
business so that they do not have challenges which will
hinder them from carrying on with these businesses?” MINISTER OF TERTIARY EDUCATION,
Let me give you an example, management and land RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
use plans have been carried out in some of our dams THEME: REVISION OF TERTIARY STUDENT
at other Constituencies while some are still waiting for ALLOWANCES
Botswana Power Corporation (BPC) to go and connect
DR P. BUTALE (GABORONE CENTRAL): Thank
power. Therefore, should we be waiting for BPC to
you very much Mr Speaker. This question is inspired by
supply or should we allocate and designate investors
a known fact that over nine years ago, tertiary student
and say, “solar power is available.’’ What can we do allowances were cut from P1, 920 to P1, 420 per month.
about sewerage system; we can have conservancy tanks It is also a known fact, we do not need to argue that
instead of centralised sewerage system.” We are talking ever since then, there has been countless inflationary
about how to speed up and or eliminate the challenges adjustments across board for various public servants.
which can hinder investors from tourism business. The Minister should tell us whether he has any plans to
assist tertiary education students because it is obvious
When we look at the beef sector, what are the current that this P1, 420 is far from being adequate.
challenges hindering the growth in cattle farming and
how can be combat them? Is it because of land use? While he is answering, I also want him to also answer
If it is due to that, how do we change our system such us, and help us understand whether they do not see it fit
that there are no impediments whereby one has to ask to have or to link the frequency of adjustments of tertiary

6 Hansard No 193
Friday 11th April 2019 MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME

education allowances with the inflationary trends, such MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, just wait. Can
that we do not have allowances that are far outdated and the person playing with the phone switch it off, please?
eroded by these inflationary trends.
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)…
I also want the Minister to know that last year, the
then Minister in July, Minister Ngaka Ngaka, told this MR SPEAKER: It is playing music that is not
House that indeed there are plans to adjust students off- acceptable in Parliament. Proceed Honourable Minister.
campus allowances. He also said that he will make an MR MOLAO: Mr Speaker, I was just saying historically,
announcement before the end of July last year and that
the off-campus allowance used to be P1 920.00 per
has not been done.
month and it was reduced in 2009 to P1 420 per month.
I also want to remind the House that as far back as The reduction was as a result of budgetary constraints
November 2013, a Motion was brought by the then arising from the effects of the economic recession then.
Member of Parliament, now Minister Bagalatia Arone,
who also called for adjustments of these allowances. The on-campus allowance meanwhile was not changed;
The Botswana National Union of Students has also it was only the off-campus allowance that was changed.
called for the increase of allowances to about P2 000 Students staying on-campus and not provided meals
and I have said numerous times here that if you cannot by the institution, continued to receive P1 208.40 per
increase, can you restore it to the P1 920 from where you month and there are those who are provided with meals
cut them. I think that is the theme, that is the import of by the institution, they were given only P150 per month
the question. to cater for toiletries.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF TERTIARY The living allowances were indeed reviewed in 2018, if
EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND the Member could pay attention. The living allowances
TECHNOLOGY (MR MOLAO): Thank you Mr as per the promise that was made by the then Minister
Speaker. Ngaka Ngaka were reviewed in 2018 and they were
Mr Speaker, I must state thus, that we do have different raised as follows;
categories of allowances given to Government sponsored
From 1st July 2018: off-campus allowance was raised
students and these allowances are:
from P1 420 to P1 620 per month. On-campus with self-
(i) Attachment allowance catering is now at P250 for toiletries, rising from the then
(ii) Book allowance P150 (P35.28 meal allowance per day) which takes it to
P1 308.40 per month. This is to certify to the Member
(iii) Living allowance: who has said the allowances were never reviewed. It
(a) On-campus allowance may not be to the extent that he had wished or anybody
else would have wished but they were indeed reviewed
(b) Off-campus allowance
as I have just stated.
(iv) Stationery allowance
The ministry could not reinstate the previous off-campus
(v) Special equipment allowance rates because of budgetary constraints. The ministry
(vi) Protective clothing allowance. currently disburses around P50 million on a monthly
basis as payment for the monthly living allowance. On
Unfortunately, very often the conversation tends to annual basis, all the allowances amount to around P730
revolve solely around the living allowance, especially
million, out of the allowances budget of P780 million
the off-campus allowance.
for financial year 2018/2019. This amounts to around
Mr Speaker, the living allowance is categorised into off- 30 per cent of the total budget allocated for tertiary
campus and on-campus allowance. education financing. It should be noted that an amount
Historically, the off-campus allowance used to be P1 of P50 million then remains to be used for externally
920.00 per month and it was reduced… placed students’ allowances.

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 Friday 11th April 2019 MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME

Sufficiency of the Living Allowance (i) Should the allowance be paid to all Government
sponsored students or not?
The current amount paid out to the students is certainly
not sufficient, we admit, given the cost of living that the (ii) Should there be a means testing to determine
students have to contend with, particularly with respect those students who should as of necessity, be given
to: the allowance at the rate that we believe would be
reasonable?
• rental charges
We need to strive to remain focussed on ensuring
• transport costs
that there is an increased access and participation in
• cost for food and other essentials. tertiary education. This is vital for the realisation of our
aspiration of building a knowledge-based economy Mr
Budget Allocation for 2019-2020 Speaker, and I am saying these are the choices that when
The budget allocation for 2019-2020 for tertiary we agitate for an increased amount in allowances, we
education financing, which we approved here in need to come to this conversation to say what choices
this Parliament is P2,251,615,210.00. This reflects should we or should we not make. I thank you Mr
a reduction of 8 per cent (P192,726,870.00) when Speaker.
compared to the 2018-2019 budget that was allocated MR MMOLOTSI: Thank you very much Mr Speaker.
through this House. It will therefore, stands to reason Minister, will you be in position to explain to us what
that it will be impossible for this financial year to
motivated the increase to P1 900 at the time when this
consider any increase to students’ living allowance
without a possible reduction in the number of students thing was done? Further to that Minister, tell us what
that we will sponsor to enter tertiary education this year, made you change to consider increasing to P1 900 when
if we were to increase or restore the allowances to P1 you decided to or had changed when you decided to
920 that the Honourable Member is referring to. We drop the allowance from P1 900 to P1 400? Also tell us
will have to make this choice to say, “okay, we cater for whether the P1 600 that you have just talked about right
those who are already on sponsorship and we reduce the now is sufficient for the learners in today’s life?
numbers for those who have not yet entered the space of
student sponsorship.” So we have to make these choices Finally, whether you think in today’s life a student who
and we have made the choice as the ministry that we comes from Mokoboxane, Shakawe or Gudigwa can
will leave the allowances where they are so that we do survive on the P1 400 or P1 600 in Gaborone without
not affect the new students who are to come through. the parents having to pay rent, feeding them and
Such a move Mr Speaker, if we were to do would be transportation? Tell us if you think that is sufficient and
counterproductive but of course we know Parliament if you would be happy if it was your child.
reserves the right to allocate more funding for tertiary MR MOLAO: Mr Speaker, the Honourable Member
education financing, so that we can enhance students’ has just regurgitated what I have talked to in my answer.
allowances whilst at the same time having sufficient We have admitted in my answer that even the P1 900 that
funds to sponsor more students. This is perhaps the Honourable Butale alluded to will still not be sufficient;
conversation that we should be delving in and be advised we agree to that and we have agreed to it in the answer
on where to get the additional funding. that I have given.
Possible Policy Shift At the time that the allowances were reduced, it was at
Mr Speaker, the following are some of the questions the time of recession and the Government had to make
that we may need to ponder upon in order to find a long a choice of where to cut and this was one of the choices
lasting solution on this vexing challenge: that was made. Now, we also admit that we have not yet
recovered economically to the extent which we would
(i) Is it possible to increase the allowance without
have loved to be at. That is why last year when a review
increasing the budget allocation?
was made, a modest increase was allowable within the
(ii) What items in the budget need to be sacrificed in constraints of the budget that we were allocated. That is
order to provide students with a reasonable living why we only managed to increase up to P1 600 and we
allowance? know it is not enough. I have said in my answer, it is not

8 Hansard No 193
Friday 11th April 2019 MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME

enough, irrespective of whether a student comes from I would also like you to get into what I asked you, if you
Gudigwa or wherever across the country, whether the are not considering linking the frequency of adjustment
student was my child or your child or whoever’s child. of these allowances to the inflationary trends so that
We recognise the constraints that they live through, but we do not wait for nine years, 10 years and increase
we are saying we have choices to make. We can, as a by P200, and expect students to live on the allowance.
ministry, decide that okay, within the budget that we Do we expect them to get into wayward practices just
have been allocated, we will raise the allowance... because we are not taking care of them?

MR MMOLOTSI: Procedure. Mr Speaker, I think the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molao, please respond.
Honourable Member is out of order because he is saying You are left with four minutes, four seconds.
we have not recovered economically to a point where
we can increase student allowances, but we know that MR MOLAO: Mr Speaker, we are saying even in
recently, we increased salaries for the Police, BDF and 2009, P1 900 was not enough. We admit to this and we
Prisons ‘officers. We have also increased for Ntlo ya are still saying, the P1 600 is still not enough. The same
Dikgosi members and just yesterday, we adjusted ours. thing applies to us as we were adjusting our salaries
So, I wonder why he says we have not economically yesterday, we indicated that it is still not enough. So, we
recovered when we talk about students who do not have know this and we are saying, you have cut our budget
anywhere to turn to. by 8 per cent, help us and agree to cut the intake and
increase the allowances for those who are also in tertiary
MR SPEAKER: Where is procedure in that? We are in institutions. This is a choice that we need to make...
order, rather, you do not agree with what he is saying.
Proceed Honourable Minister, you are left with seven HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.
minutes. MR MOLAO: We are saying we are working within
MR MOLAO: Mr Speaker, we know that this is an the limits of the budget that we have. If it was a matter
elections year, we are aware that there will be elections of satisfying people without thinking, we would
at the university this evening, colleagues are trying to increase the allowances to any amount that you want
campaign for their candidates. We understand that and and then reduce the numbers of the intakes. I wonder if
we are saying, let us agree in this House that in the you would be happy to see your children doing nothing
budget that we have been allocated, which has been while they have passed all because there is no money
cut down by 8 per cent toP192 million, let us agree to to send them to schools. So, we need to balance these
increase allowances to P2 000 or P2 500, then we reduce things. That is all we are saying, we are not saying the
the numbers of the upcoming intakes so that we can take allowance is enough and we are not happy with it.
care of those who are already studying. You can allow
MR MMOLOTSI: Procedure. The Honourable
us to do that.
Minister is imputing improper motives to be saying
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr that some people do not think. Mr Speaker, I want him
Speaker. to withdraw those words because that is not how he
should talk to Honourable Members. While doing so,
MR SPEAKER: You should not ask questions through he should also explain how the policy on protecting the
a point of order, you should stand up. Honourable salary works because even in demotion, it is there, but
Butale, you can ask. why then is it not applied on allowances as well because
these students do make commitments knowing that they
DR P. BUTALE: Mr Speaker, ask the Minister to allow have the allowance.
us to ask him questions. He should refrain from saying
what we did not ask him. Minister, if nine years ago, MR SPEAKER: No Honourable Mmolotsi, there is no
looking at the inflationary trends, students could live way we can go back to him because you stood on a point
of procedure. I would like you to ask him questions.
on P1 900, so are you saying five years later they can
Honourable Nkaigwa would be the last one since we are
survive on P1 600? That is what we are saying. How
left with three minutes.
practical is your increase and your expectation that
university students can live on what you call a modest MR NKAIGWA (GABORONE NORTH): Thank
increase? It is an insult to these students who are the you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, the Umbrella for
leaders of tomorrow. Democratic Change (UDC) Government considers

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 Friday 11th April 2019 MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME

education as an investment. I want to know from the Parliament. The way in which he talks to me … I am
Honourable Minister, why does Government continue tempted to utter certain words but just because he is
to consider education as an expenditure and if indeed called Honourable, he talks to me anyhow, attacking me
your Government considers education as an investment, as a Minister who has been appointed and abusing me
what is the return on investment for tertiary education in Parliament Mr Speaker… Do you think it is okay for
sponsorship? What you have been sponsoring on tertiary this man to attack and single me out just like that? Must
education? he abuse me like that? Must I expose his secrets that
when he was a mayor for the town council, he did things
Lastly, I am not surprised Honourable Minister, your
that are morally wrong? Must I expose this man as a
Government appointed a Minister who has never seen
way of getting back at him Mr Speaker? I can start with
the gates of tertiary institution. What should we expect
a transaction company which he had from South Africa
from you when you are led by someone who has never
Sir. I am laying a foundation, should I go on and abuse
been to a university, to lead an institution that calls for
him like he did to me?
people that have known the gates of the university?
MR SPEAKER: Order!
Lastly, I want to appreciate from you Honourable
Minister, we have been saying there is a need … MR OLOPENG: He is claiming to be a pastor at the
MINISTER OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, same time, although he did such things. He did not talk
RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY to me properly Mr Speaker.
(MR OLOPENG): Mr Speaker…
MR SPEAKER: Order!
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)…
MR OLOPENG: Why is this man insulting me Sir?
MR SPEAKER: Order! Let us listen to Honourable Why is he tormenting me?
Olopeng.
MR SPEAKER: No! Order!
MR OLOPENG: Mr Speaker, my request is …
MR OLOPENG: Why are he tormenting me? Why is
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. he tormenting me?

MR OLOPENG: Mr Speaker, my request is … MR SPEAKER: Order! I heard you Honourable

Olopeng.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. I also
want a point of order since you are allowing them from MR OLOPENG: This guy does not know me. He must
members of Domkrag. stop speaking rudely to me.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR SPEAKER: I heard you. Order!
HONOURABLE MEMBER: I also want it.
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)…
MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi do not do that.
Let him finish first. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, do not do that
to one another. Talk calmly. You have been working
MR MOLEBATSI: What is so special about him. We together for a long time and you are about to finish your
have been asking for points of order and you said that
term in Parliament, what you are doing is so unusual.
they are not allowed during question time.
Talk to one another properly, your arguments must be
MR SPEAKER: Do not do that Honourable Member. with love and respect, your job will be pleasant if you
can do that. Who was responding to questions?
MR MOLEBATSI: No, you said there is no point of
order during question time. MR KGOROBA: Point of order. Mr Speaker, many of
MR SPEAKER: Proceed Honourable Olopeng. us here did not go to university, some are Ministers like
Honourable Markus, he never went there. That is the
MR OLOPENG: Mr Speaker, may I make a humble truth, I do not think it should be offensive to say that
request Sir, Honourable Nkaigwa does not know me Honourable Olopeng is a Minister who never went to
nor where I come from, we happened to meet in this university.

10 Hansard No 193
Friday 11th April 2019 MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Inaudible)… Honourable Minister, you have two minutes.

MR KGOROBA: He never went to university. I also ASSISTANT MINISTER OF TERTIARY

cannot lie that I went …, we never went to university. EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND
So what is wrong with that? You did not go to university TECHNOLOGY (MR MOLAO): Mr Speaker, the
although you are a Minister. There is nothing offensive question was about return on investment when students
about that. Accept the truth! are sponsored for tertiary education. I will give a simple
and close example of return on investment. We have
MR SPEAKER: Why are you attacking the Honourable graduates in this Parliament, we have Honourable Noah
Minister? Salakae, Honourable Haskins Nkaigwa, Honourable Dr
ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL Butale, Honourable Wynter Mmolotsi and Honourable
DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR Keorapetse. Unless if Honourable Nkaigwa is not
MARKUS): Point of order. As for me, I attended my satisfied with his education that, he is not yet educated.
college at Zimbabwe, I did my Diploma in Business This is the return on investment that we pride ourselves
Administration. So, you do not talk to me like that, you with, that we have graduates who come from various
do not know where I come from. You are useless like a tertiary institutions. That is what we pride ourselves
monkey; I do not know what you are trying to say. with and we will continue to do so. We may be able
to review allowances as and when we go along and get
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)…
a better budget to so do. We also have these students
MR SPEAKER: No! No! Order! in our homes and we understand what they are going
through, we cannot come here and pretend that we do
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… not understand how they live. No, we know and we
have been given the responsibility to take care of their
MR SPEAKER: Order!
welfare …(interruptions) …
MR MOLEBATSI: Point of order.
We also… (Interruptions) … ourselves as parents to
MR SPEAKER: Sit down Honourable Molebatsi. assist our children when we send them to school, me
must not put everything on the Government so that
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… it can sponsor them. If it is the responsibility of the
MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Markus! Government, it does not mean that they are no longer
our responsibility. We should also in our own way try to
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… assist students who are in schools.

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Mr Speaker, I thought to conclude my response with

that …
HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Murmurs)…
MR SPEAKER: Hold on Honourable Molao, let me
MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Markus, you
take a point of order.
cannot compare an Honourable Member to a monkey
and go on to say that he is useless. Withdraw those HONOURABLE MEMBER: Molao, why do you not
words. want to be asked questions man?
MR MARKUS: Never do that again. I withdraw. MR SPEAKER: No! Honourable Salakae! Order!
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)…
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Why do you not want us
MR SPEAKER: Order! to ask you questions?

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Salakae, I always

tell you to never do that in Parliament. You are not
MR SPEAKER: Order! Let us stop here with your supposed to say anything until you are permitted to
personal matters. I know you will fight if you do that. Let do so, right? Never do that again. You are out of order.
the Minister address Honourable Nkaigwa’s question. Honourable Segokgo, let me take your point of order.

Hansard No 193 11
 Friday 12th April 2019 REGULATION OF GEOMATICS INDUSTRY
Motion (Resumed Debate)

MR SEGOKGO: Point of order. Thank you Mr deferred into that pole position until we finish discussing
Speaker. My point of order Mr Speaker is that, I think it at the General Assembly and come and finish it here
Honourable Molao knows how he answered. He keeps in Parliament. Therefore, we are proceeding with
repeating the same thing so as to while away time, so the Motion we were debating last week Friday by
that we do not have enough time to be able to ask further Honourable Salakae of Geomatics.
questions. He answers in the same manner and he knows
it moreover, he looks at the clock like somebody who
REGULATION OF GEOMATICS
is winding off time so that time can elapse before we
INDUSTRY
can give him some ideas through which things could Motion
be amended. So, it is useless for us to ask Mr Speaker
because he is not giving us answers. You could advise (Resumed Debate)
the Minister to answer our questions carefully and in MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Members, the
line with what we asked. That is my point of order. debate on this Motion is resuming. When the House
MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Members. adjourned last week Friday, 29th of March, Honourable
Honourable Molao, they are saying that you are dodging Salakae was on the floor presenting and he is still left
their questions. with 21 minutes, 56 seconds.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.

MR SPEAKER: So, give them the information that MR SALAKAE (GHANZI NORTH): Thank you Mr
they are looking for. Wrap it up Honourable Member, Speaker…
give them the information that they need. MR KGOROBA: On a point of order. Mr Speaker,
MR MOLAO: Mr Speaker, it is not possible to stop I can see that you are following procedure but let me
repeating my answers because they are also repeating remind this House about the urgency of this Motion.
the same question which Honourable Dr Butale asked. People are not at ease due to crime. As we are following
So, I am forced to give them the same answer which I procedure, we should know that Parliament is closing
gave to Honourable Dr Butale. I cannot help it if they today therefore we should consider Batswana who every
do not ask other questions than what was asked Mr day…Marina is full of victims of such crimes. Please, as
Speaker. we move forward, let us take that into consideration and
give it the urgency that it deserves.
MR SPEAKER: Time up!
MR SPEAKER: Order! I agree with you Honourable
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.
Kgoroba. I believe that for you to have brought such a
MR SPEAKER: Time up! Motion, requesting for such assistance, the Government
is taking your request seriously. We might not have
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point order. debated the Motion yet as we said we should discuss it
first at the General Assembly but the Government cannot
MR SPEAKER: No! Time up!
just sit while there is such an outcry at Mogoditshane. I
REINSTATEMENT OF BOTSWANA DEFENCE believe they will take proper action at the right time, the
FORCE (BDF) PATROLS Minister is also here listening. I believe he will quickly
address your request.
Motion
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.
(Resumed Debate)
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker.
MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Members, this
Motion by Honourable Kgoroba, will be deferred until MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND
it is discussed at the General Assembly as the House SECURITY (MR KGATHI): Mr Speaker, I spoke to
agreed. It cannot be debated before making a decision the Honourable Member at length and I have assured
as this House which was to discuss it first at the General him that what he is asking is ongoing. We have taken
Assembly before it is brought here. It is going to be heed of his request, we do not even need to come and

12 Hansard No 193
Friday 12th April 2019 REGULATION OF GEOMATICS INDUSTRY
Motion (Resumed Debate)

resolve Motion in Parliament. We will go and put MR MOSWAANE: I am entitled to ask you a question
expedite action as per the incidents, so we will continue regarding procedure.
to improve the situation.
MR SPEAKER: Switch off that microphone.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.
MR SALAKAE: Thank you Mr Speaker…
MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Members. Let
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order.
us proceed.
MR SPEAKER: Are we ever going to get business
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker.
done Honourable Members? Let us hear Honourable
MR SPEAKER: No, I want to proceed. Ntlhaile with a point of order.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: We are proceeding. MR NTLHAILE: On a point of order. Thank you

Honourable Member of Parliament (MP). Mr Speaker, I
MR SPEAKER: No, that is wrong, Honourable would like to implore you and this House that although
Moswaane…
we have issues brought by the Honourable MP, we
MR MOSWAANE: Sorry Mr Speaker. Procedure. seem to be faced with more pressing matters regarding
allowances for university students, they need at least 2.5
MR SPEAKER: Switch off the microphone. Learn to because…
keep quiet and listen when your Speaker is standing.
Learn to do that so that you can be very Honourable MR SPEAKER: Order! Order!
Members of Parliament.
MR NTLHAILE: …(Interruption)…50. 1. Mr Speaker,
MR MOSWAANE: On a point of procedure. Can we should at least say university students should be
we please make the procedure clear, what is the main given an allowance of 2.5 because the Minister is not
reason for taking this Motion to the General Assembly? against increasing…
We have a huge problem, hospitals are full of victims
who sustained serious injuries as a result of stopping MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Ntlhaile please, sit
patrols by police and soldiers. Those patrols are not down. Do not do that Honourable Members. Honourable
there Honourable Minister; it has been three years. It Ntlhaile, yesterday I advised you that you have a right
is no longer their Minister, let us just inform you thus. to invoke Standing Order 50.1 if you have an urgent
matter you want debated in this House. That Standing
MR SPEAKER: Okay, but please address me and
Order guides you that if you have an urgent matter, you
stop…
come to my office and inform me of such. If we agree,
MR MOSWAANE: Can you please tell us why we are then I will ask you to present that Motion here through
taking this Motion to the General Assembly when we Standing Order 50.2. It is not presented through point
are here as the decision makers? of order. It should be written in the Order Paper to show
MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Moswaane, if that there is a Motion of Urgent Public Importance. That
you were present when this Motion was brought to is our procedure Honourable Member, we should not
Parliament, you could know the reasons. Since you force in matters. Please allow Honourable Salakae to
were not, please look for the Hansard of that date and continue with his Motion, which followed procedure.
read through the reasons… Yours will be brought in June/July, there is no problem.

MR MOSWAANE: I am entitled to ask now. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: No, Honourable Member, do not MR SPEAKER: It is now a problem if Honourable
argue with me…
Kesupile wants procedure. Proceed Honourable
MR MOSWAANE: No, I am telling you. I was not here Kesupile.
and you know why.
MR KESUPILE: On a point of procedure. Thank
MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moswaane, if a Member you Mr Speaker. This procedure is brought by concern
of Parliament is not present in this House, you retrieve coupled with pain. We experience live examples day
the Hansard to update yourself. and night regarding Honourable Kgoroba’s Motion

Hansard No 193 13
 Friday 12th April 2019 REGULATION OF GEOMATICS INDUSTRY
Motion (Resumed Debate)

so I have a huge problem with the Minister saying it to identify where the concerns are. We will do that. It
is ongoing whereas we see nothing on the ground. The does not have to come here to be debated. I have agreed
Minister could be giving us a better promise, or he with Honourable Kgoroba that even after this, we would
should respond to this situation in a better way. When talk some more outside; had it not been for the issue
he says it happens, I do not quite get what he is saying of quorum. The Honourable Member is afraid to go
Mr Speaker. I will end up breaking the decorum of the outside; the media is waiting for him. Go.
House, but it is because of the discomfort that I am
having in regard to this issue. We do not want to come MR MOSWAANE: Correction Mr Speaker.
here and defend ourselves on the floor of Parliament, MR SPEAKER: No, Honourable Moswaane you
and tell how we are being abused by people out there. would only correct if he was still on the floor.
We are not sleeping in peace in Gaborone. Hence, the
Minister has to be serious Mr Speaker. MR MOSWAANE: Yes, I need to correct what he is
saying now.
MR SPEAKER: Order! Today it seems a bit hard for
us to continue with business because since Parliament MR SPEAKER: No, you would be able to correct if he
is going on recess, you all want to throw in every was still on the floor talking. Now he has finished.
pending issue at the same time. The Minister has heard
MR MOSWAANE: Now he is just saying things that
you. When he was on the floor responding, I sensed
do not exist.
that indeed he has heard what your concerns are. It is
unfortunate that we did not manage to have a General MR SPEAKER: You do not have access to him. When
Assembly to close up this Motion. If you recall, the time I count you, I can see that you are only 20, or am I
we were supposed to address it, was when we waited mistaken?
upon Honourable Molefhi to say something, and that is
what disturbed us. Please give him a chance. Give him HONOURABLE MEMBERS: … (Murmurs) …
these reports every day, Honourable Kgathi, because
MR SPEAKER: You are 20. Ring the bell and call
you all have his number; so he should address them and
them. I want them to come back inside. Honourable
I believe he will do so.
Keorapetse, let them come inside so that we can
Honourable Kgathi, please rise and assure your continue, Order! Please take your seats so that I can
colleagues that you are doing something about this count you. It seems you are 21.
issue.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: We are 18.
MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND
MR SPEAKER: We need two more.
SECURITY (MR KGATHI): Honourable Members,
in the Police programme every morning, there is what …Silence…
the police refer to as a seat report, referring to all areas
in the whole country, every morning as a matter of fact, MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members,
they must report all the incidences of crime. On the we have failed to form a quorum. It means our meeting
basis of that, we are able to detect the pattern. As for will end in this manner. I had hoped there would be a
others as you are saying, the police are unable to address quorum so that Madam Speaker would address you
some issues. What the Honourable Member was saying, before leaving, but now since we are all not here, may
as I also had a chat with him, I told him that that was God go with you; we shall meet again next month.
not a Motion as he said, “reinstate”. Then I said there ADJOURNMENT
was nothing that was stopped. All we need to do, him
and I maybe is to recast the Motion to say, “expedite” The Assembly adjourned at 10.45 a.m. sine die.
assistance which they receive from the police officers.

Moreover, when you speak, I do not need to wait for

a Motion to be resolved. I will immediately within
my powers go and dialogue with the Commander and
Commissioner and inform them that there is an outcry;
that we should utilise the law as it allows, and be able

14 Hansard No 193
 HANSARD RECORDERS
Mr. T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang

HANSARD REPORTERS
Ms T. Rantsebele, Mr M. Buti, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi,
Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi, Ms N. Mokoka, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms Z. Molemi

HANSARD EDITORS
Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi,
Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye
Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa

HANSARD TRANSLATORS
Ms B. Ntisetsang, Ms. M. Sekao, Ms. M. Rabotsima, Ms. B. Mosinyi, Ms. V.
Nkwane, Ms. N. Kerobale, Ms K. Alepeng, Ms T. Motsau, Ms O. Phesodi

HANSARD LAYOUT DESIGNERS

Mr B. B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae

Hansard No 193 15