John Gregory Dunne, The Art of Screenwriting No. 2
John Gregory Dunne, The Art of Screenwriting No. 2
John Gregory Dunne, The Art of Screenwriting No. 2
Interviewed George Plimpton
IU 138, PRING 1996
e h of ix children, John Gregor Dunne, the on of a prominent urgeon, wa orn in
Hartford, Connecticut in . He went to chool at Portmouth Prior (now Ae) and on
graduation moved on to Princeton, graduating from there in . To pleae hi mother he
applied to the tanford uine chool, ut changed hi mind (if not her) and intead
volunteered for the dra . He erved for two ear in the arm a an enlited man, hi overea
ervice pent with a gun atter in German. He peak of hi ear at the Prior (where the
monk were “ver worldl”) and in the arm a eing far more valuale than hi time at
Princeton. “In the arm I wa expoed to people I would not otherwie have known. I learned
omething aout life.”
ack in the tate a er hi ervice, Dunne worked rie in an ad agenc (he wa red), then
with the magazine Indutrial Deign. In he went to Time magazine and worked there until
, the ear he married the author Joan Didion. ince devoting himelf to hi own work,
Dunne ha written a numer of novel, including e Red White and lue, True Confeion,
Dutch hea, Jr., Vega and Plaland and two non ction ook, Harp and e tudio. He and
Didion together have written over twent creenpla, even of which have reached the creen:
e Panic in Needle Park, Pla It A It La, A tar I orn, True Confeion, Hill Like White
lephant, roken Trut, and mot recentl Up Cloe and Peronal.
At preent the couple live in a large unn apartment on New York’ Upper at ide. One
i truck how neat and ordered everthing i—no ene of confuion, le in neat pile. e
oor throughout the apartment are are, polihed. e coniderale lirar i in order: the
ction title onl ll the helve of the mater edroom.
oth have workroom. When the pair work on a creenpla, each doe a eparate dra and
then the two meet, itting oppoite each other at the dek in John’ workplace where the thrah
out ucceive dra . Here too are memento of their work together. Photograph taken on the
et of variou movie. A large police map of the treet of Lo Angele cover one wall.
Authentic, it wa ued on the et of True Confeion—little lack dot acro it urface mark
where crime-cene pin once tuck. On the oppoite wall, a more erene cene: a lown-up
photograph of Joan Didion tanding in the hallow of a quiet ea holding a pair of andal.
Man photograph are of their daughter, uintana Roo (named a er a tate in Mexico), now
the photo editor at lle Decor magazine. A recent addition in the workroom i a photograph of
uintana and Roert Redford, who cotar with Michelle Pfei er in the newl releaed Up
Cloe and Peronal.
e interview that follow i a compoite—partl conducted at the YMHA efore a packed
audience, partl at Dunne’ home on the at ide, with a written portion aout the novel
Plaland added the author himelf.
I N T RV I W R
Your work i populated with the mot extraordinar grotequerie—nutt nun, midget,
whore of the mot reathtaking ailitie and appetite. Do ou know all thee character?
J O H N G R G O RY D U N N
Certainl I knew the nun. You couldn’t go to a parochial chool in the and not know
them. e were like concentration-camp guard. e all eemed to have ruler and the hit
ou acro the knuckle with them. e joke at t. Joeph’ Cathedral chool in Hartford,
Connecticut, where I grew up, wa that the nun would hit ou until ou led and then hit ou
for leeding. Having aid that, I hould alo a the were great teacher. A a matter of fact, the
et of m formal education came from the nun at t. Joeph’ and from the monk at
Portmouth Prior, a enedictine oarding chool in Rhode Iland where I pent m junior and
enior ear of high chool. e nun taught me aic reading, writing, and arithmetic; the
monk taught me how to think, how to quetion, even to quetion Catholicim in order to
etter undertand it. e nun and the monk were far more valuale to me than m four ear
at Princeton. I’m not a practicing Catholic, ut one thing ou never loe from a Catholic
education i a ene of in and the conviction that the taint on the human condition i the
natural order.
I N T RV I W R
What aout the whore and midget?
DUNN
I uppoe for that I would have to go to m informal education. I pent two ear a an enlited
man in the arm in German a er the Korean War, and thoe two ear were the mot
important learning experience I reall ever had. I wa jut a tight-aed upper-middle-cla kid,
the on of a urgeon, and I had thi ene of Iv League entitlement, and all that wa knocked
out of me in the arm. Princeton o didn’t meet the white and lack undercla that ou meet
a an enlited dra ee. It wa a contituenc of the dipoeed—high-chool dropout, pett
criminal, redneck, racit, gamler, ou name it—and I t right in. I grew to hate the o cer
cla that wa m natural contituenc. A Princeton clamate wa an o cer on m pot and he
told me I wa to alute him and call him ir, a if I had to e reminded, and alo that he would
dicourage an outward ign that we knew each other. I hate that on of a itch to thi da. I
took care of him in Harp. oe two ear in German gave me a uject I uppoe I’ve een
mining for the pat God-know-how-man ear. It t nicel with that Catholic ene of in, the
taint on the human condition. And it wa in the arm that I learned to appreciate whore. You
didn’t meet man Vaar girl when ou were erving in a gun atter on the Czech order and
were in a contant tate of alert in cae the Red Arm came rolling acro the frontier. A for
midget, the’re part of that contituenc of the dipoeed.
I N T RV I W R
You once aid ou onl had one character. I that true?
DUNN
I’ve alwa thought a novelit onl ha one character and that i himelf or herelf. In m cae,
me. o at the rik of eing gli, I am the priet in True Confeion and the criminal lawer in
Dutch hea, Jr. I’ve certainl never een a cop or a priet or a pimp lawer, ut thee
protagonit are in a ene m mouthpiece. I like to learn aout their profeion, which i wh I
like doing non ction o much. I’m a great eliever in the novelit eing “on the cene,”
reporting, traveling, meeting all ort of people. You do non ction, ou get to meet people ou
would not normall meet. I’m not a ad mimic and I can pick up peech cadence that I would
not pick up if I didn’t hit the road.
I N T RV I W R
Do ou think novel have a life of their own?
DUNN
efore I egan writing ction I thought that wa nonene. en I learned otherwie. Let me
give ou an example. In e Red White and lue, I tarted o thinking the protagonit would e
the enedictine priet, ro roderick. I realized rather quickl that he could not e ut that I
wa tuck with him a a character. He never reall came to life until I nihed the ook and went
ack and inerted hi diar, which he had le in hi will to the Widener Lirar at Harvard.
en for three hundred page or o I thought the leading character wa the radical lawer Leah
Kae, ecaue whenever he appeared on the cene the ook took o . en when I got to page
ve hundred of thi even-hundred- page manucript I realized he couldn’t e the leading
character ecaue he had not appeared in over two hundred page. It wa onl then that I
realized that the narrator, who wa the onl urvivor of the three major protagonit, would have
to e the leading character. o novel do take charge of the writer, and the writer i aicall a
kind of heepdog jut tring to keep thing on track.
I N T RV I W R
Can ou a omething aout the germination of a ook?
DUNN
I think an time a writer tell ou where a ook tart, he i ling, ecaue I don’t think he
know. You don’t tart o aing, “I’m going to write thi grand aga aout the human
condition.” It’ a form of accretion. When m wife and I were in Indoneia in or , we
ran into thi man who had een a Univerit of Marland extenion teacher during the Vietnam
War. He wa tationed at Cam Ranh a. ee GI would go o in the morning in their
chopper and when the’d come ack at night—if the were luck—he would teach them
remedial nglih. I made a note of it in m noteook, putting it awa ecaue I knew thi wa a
reall great wa to look at the Vietnam War, and it turned up in e Red White and lue. When
I am etween ook I am an inveterate note taker. I jot thing down mainl ecaue the give
me a uzz. I like to go to the lirar and take a month’ newpaper, a Augut of , and read
through it. You can nd great tu in thoe little ller ection at the ottom of a page. en
when it come time to tart writing a ook, I ort of look through the tu and ee if an of it
work. I alo write down name. If ou have a name it can et omeone in place. I have a great
friend in California, the Irih novelit rian Moore. We were having dinner one night and rian
aid that when he wa a newpaperman in Montreal a local character there wa named hake-
Hand McCarth. I aid, top! Are ou ever going to ue that name? He aid, No, let me tell ou
aout him. I aid, No, I don’t want to know anthing aout him. I jut want to ue that name.
o the name turned up in True Confeion. When I heard the name I had no idea when I wa
going to ue it if, indeed, ever. ut it wa a name that aolutel et a character in cement. We
had dinner with Joce Carol Oate at Princeton once; he wa aing that he doe the ame
thing, that he collect thoe little ller. he never know when he’ going to ue them; he jut
throw them in a le and oddl enough the do tick.
To get ack to our quetion, Vega i the one ook for which I can actuall pinpoint the
moment when it tarted. I wa tring to think of an idea, doodling at m dek while I wa
talking to m wife, and I drew a heart, then a quare around the heart. I found I had written ve
letter: V--G-A-. o I not onl had a uject; I had a title.
I N T RV I W R
Wh i the title of Vega reinforced the decription “a ction”?
DUNN
ecaue I had a contract for a non ction ook. I alwa thought of Vega a a novel, ut
Random Houe aid, It doen’t read like a novel, and I aid, A novel i anthing the writer a
the ook i, and ince I made mot of it up, it can’t e non ction. o we ended up calling it a
ction. A lot of it i true. e protitute did write poetr, although the poetr I ued in Vega i
not her. It wa actuall written m wife, who a a child had memorized a lot of ara Teadale
poem. I can write ou ad poetr, he aid. o there are two little poem in there that Joan
actuall wrote.
I N T RV I W R
What i our tate of mind when ou are writing?
DUNN
entiall, writing i a ort of manual laor of the mind. It i a hard jo, ut there come a
moment in ever ook, I uppoe, when ou know ou’re going to nih and then it ecome a
kind of li, almot a exual li. I once read omething Graham Greene aid aout thi feeling.
e metaphor he ued wa a plane going down a runwa and then, ultimatel, leaving the
ground. Occaionall he had ook that he felt never did leave the runwa; one of them wa e
Honorar Conul, though in retropect he realized that it wa one of hi etter ook.
I N T RV I W R
How much do ou know aout the end of a ook?
DUNN
When I did Dutch hea, Jr., I knew the lat line wa going to e, “I elieve in God.”
I N T RV I W R
Wh did ou pick that line?
DUNN
ecaue that’ the line the man would a a he kill himelf. I wanted that mot depairing of
act to end with the imple declarative entence, “I elieve in God.” In e Red White and lue I
knew the lat line wa going to e either e or no, in dialogue, and the penultimate line wa
going to e e or no not in dialogue. e rt line of Vega i, “In the ummer of m nervou
reakdown, I went to live in La Vega, Clark Count, Nevada.” I knew that the lat line of that
ook would e, “And in the fall, I went home.” I don’t think it’ necear to have a lat line; I
jut like to know where in general I’m going. I have a terrile time plotting. I onl plot aout
thirt page in front of where I am. I once had dinner with Ro MacDonald, who did the Lew
Archer novel aout a California private detective. He aid he pent eighteen month actuall
plotting out a ook—ever ingle nuance. en he at down and wrote the ook in one hot
from eginning to end—ix month to write the ook and eighteen to plot it out. If ou’ve ever
read one of thoe ook, it’ o intricatel plotted it’ like a watch, a ver expenive watch.
I N T RV I W R
You have aid that ou have a lot of troule with plotting a ook. What make it move forward?
DUNN
I have no grand plan of what I’m going to do. I had no idea who killed the girl in True
Confeion until the da I wrote it. I knew it would e omeone who wa not relevant to the
tor. I had alwa planned that. ut who the actual killer wa, I impl had no idea. Year
efore, I had clipped omething from the Lo Angele Time in the mall death notice. It wa the
death of a arer. I had put that up on m ulletin oard. I wa guring out “now who . . .”—
getting to the moment when I had to reveal who killed thi girl, with not the foggiet idea who
did it, and m ee glommed onto thi death notice of a arer. I aid, Oop, ou’re it. One mut
have enormou con dence to wait to gure thee thing out until the time come.
I N T RV I W R
Do ou have great a ection for our character?
DUNN
You have to have a ection for them ecaue ou can’t live with them for two ear or three ear
without liking them. ut I have no troule killing them o .
I N T RV I W R
I there a coniderale hi ing of gear in moving etween non ction and ction?
DUNN
ere’ a technical di erence. I nd that the entence are more ornate and elaorate in
non ction ecaue ou don’t have dialogue to get ou on our wa. Non ction ha it ru e
and ourihe, claue and emicolon. I never ue a emicolon in ction.
I N T RV I W R
Your latet novel i Plaland. e ackground i the movie uine.
DUNN
I lived in Lo Angele and worked in the movie uine from the mid-ixtie until the late
eightie, ut except on the fringe, in e Red White and lue, I had never written aout
Hollwood and the picture uine in ction. It wa like an eight-hundred-pound gorilla.
ooner or later I wa going to have to deal with it.
I N T RV I W R
Wh did ou et the Hollwood part of our novel largel in the rather than in the period
ou were working there?
DUNN
ecaue I don’t think contemporar Hollwood i terril intereting, and ecaue I don’t want
an ene of a roman à clef (i our o-and-o reall o-and-o?). Motl I wanted to recontruct
an era from a ditance, an era that I kept on getting tantalizing glimpe of from people I knew
or worked with who had een there in the and had not jut een there ut had een at the
top of the heap.
I N T RV I W R
For example?
DUNN
Otto Preminger. Joan and I once did a creenpla for him. He wa an immenel cultivated man,
ut he wa a trant with a volcanic temper. When he lot hi temper, the top of hi head—he
haved it with an electric razor ometime during tor meeting—would turn eet red. He
creamed at mot people who worked for him ut never at u; he jut got elaoratel polite, and
he would refer to Joan a “Mr. Dunne,” drawing it out for half a dozen iilant llale. He
rought u ack to New York to work on the cript. He aid it would onl take three week top,
ut three month later we were till there—in thi tin apartment on Fi h Avenue with our
four-ear-old daughter and a di erent aitter ever da. Our daughter called Otto, to hi
face, Mr. Preminger with no hair, which he took with good grace. We nall aid we were going
home for Chritma and we would nih the cript there, and Otto aid, I forid ou to go. It
wa an extraordinar thing to a. We thought he wa kidding, ut that wa the wa the tudio
had alwa operated and he aw nothing wrong with it. We went ack to L.A. anwa and he
threatened to ue u for two million dollar. He impl could not undertand our lack of
deference. It worked out. He paid o our contract at fort cent on the dollar. It wa the kind of
punihment the old tudio tem would have exacted. ut we alwa topped to ee him
when we came to New York, ecaue if ou were not working for him he wa a charming man.
I N T RV I W R
Who ele?
DUNN
ill Wilder. In the mid-eightie he aked me to do a creenpla with him for an idea he had
aout a ilent movie tar plaing Chrit in a ilical epic. e twit wa that the movie tar wa a
diolute drunk who wa crewing everod on the et, including the actre plaing the Virgin
Mar, while the actre plaing Mar Magdalene purned him, another twit. ill wanted him
to repent at the end of the picture and actuall walk on water—a gag he would et up
throughout the picture and then pa o at fade-out. Nothing came of the idea, ut we had ome
funn meeting ecaue ill ha perfect pitch for trul hilariou ad tate. i wa a man who
won even Ocar, and he kept them in a cloet at hi nondecript o ce on anta Monica
oulevard. He uuall worked with Izz Diamond, ut Izz wa ding or had jut died and ill
alwa wrote with a collaorator, which i wh he had aked me to work with him. Ramond
Chandler had worked with him on the cript for Doule Indemnit and the had deteted each
other, ut the wrote a great creenpla together, which prove ou don’t alwa have to like the
people ou work with. I would ak him aout the da of the red care and the lacklit and he
had thi intereting take, which wa that no one ver good actuall joined the Communit part,
it onl attracted the econd-rater. Of coure ill had the mot famou line aout the
Hollwood Ten (or the Unfriendl Ten a the were called) when the had to tetif efore the
Houe Un-American Activitie Committee. Onl two of them were talented, he aid; the other
eight were onl unfriendl. We never wrote the cript. I had to nih e Red White and lue
and the time did not work out.
I N T RV I W R
Did ou work with George Cukor?
DUNN
I knew George ut never worked with him. We were at a dinner part one night at Peter
Feileman’ houe. Lillian Hellman wa the hote and the guet were George, Olivia De
Havilland, Willie and Tall Wler, and then a ounger generation—Peter, Mike and Anael
Nichol, Warren eatt and Julie Chritie, and Joan and I. We were ver much made to feel that
we were at the children’ tale, there to e een ut not heard. George and Willie and Lillian
were all to die in the next few ear, and it wa a if the knew thi wa the lat time the would
ee each other and the wanted to ettle a lot of old core. And o, did the! e intereting
thing wa that the all liked the old tudio tem, and the monter like Harr Cohn and am
Goldwn. At one point in the evening I made the mitake of aking George aout Howard
Hawk, m own peronal favorite of the old-time director, and he roe up and aid, I depie
Mr. Hawk and I loathe hi picture. ett acall once told me Hawk wa a famou anti-
emite; he would talk to her aout Yid, not knowing that her real name wa Perke, and he
wan’t uppoed to like ga much either, o needle to a George had no ue for him. He’d talk
aout Garo and Kate Hepurn, oth of whom would ta with him at hi houe in the
Hollwood Hill when the came to L.A. I rememer once going to a part at hi houe. He
wan’t giving it—I don’t think he wa even there—he had jut lent thi perfect little jewel of a
houe to a tudio for a pre part for ome out-of-town ditriutor. e tudio—it wa Fox—
had dreed the pool area and put up a tent. At the end of the evening I went to get m car, and
a I wa waiting for the parking o, I picked a lemon o a potted tree the entrance to the
houe. It occurred to me that it wa out of eaon for lemon, and when I looked at it, I aw that
it had een tamped with the word unkit. What the tudio had done wa wire lemon to the
tree. at’ what tudio did. e tried to control everthing, even the environment.
I N T RV I W R
lue Tler’ character in Plaland eem to have element of Natalie Wood. Did ou know her?
DUNN
Not when he wa a child tar. When we rt got to California, he wa jut eginning to cro
over from a child actre to a grown-up movie tar. he had never reall een a child tar in the
ene that hirle Temple wa a tar, ale to carr a picture all herelf (the wa Macaula
Culkin can toda), ut the tranition from child actre to woman movie tar wa one that onl
lizaeth Talor had made uccefull. Margaret O’rien hadn’t made it and neither had
hirle Temple, reall. Onl Talor and now Natalie. Aout thi time there wa a huge eight- or
ten-page photo pread on her in Life magazine. I rememer one of the picture epeciall, of
Natalie in the conference room at the William Morri Agenc, itting at thi enormou
conference tale, thi tin lip of a oung woman urrounded her retainer—her agent, Ae
Latfogel, who wa the head of the Morri o ce, her pulic-relation people, and her
accountant, all of thee middle-aged men focued on managing the career of thi twent-one-
ear-old child. We met her a few ear later. he wa an extraordinaril generou woman. he
paid for a hrink for her aitant, a oung man named Mart Crowle, who wrote e o in the
and. Mart wa a friend of our and through him we ecame acquainted with Natalie and her
huand Richard Gregon, and then later with R. J.—Roert Wagner, called R. J., who wa
Natalie’ rt and third huand—when the remarried. I aked her once what it wa like eing
a child tar and he aid, e take care of ou—the eing the tudio. One thing I rememer
aout Natalie wa how atute he wa aout the uine of Hollwood, aout her own worth
and the worth of everone ele. he undertood mone and invetment the wa a French
ourgeoie doe. And like mot people in Hollwood he wa a fantatic goip, knew
everthing, where all the odie were uried, and under how much dirt. When he died, we
went to her funeral, a natil hot late fall da, with the paparazzi hanging over the wall of the
cemeter (the ame one where Mariln Monroe wa uried). And a erward, we topped her
houe, and there I rememer two thing. Firt wa the famil inatra itting ide ide on a
couch—Frank, ig Nanc, little Nanc, Tina, and Frank Jr., a if it were a funeral in Palermo.
e other wa lizaeth Talor, who in the aence of the hote—Natalie—had taken charge,
greeting everone and to all aing, I am Mother Courage.
I N T RV I W R
How much of thi material made it wa into Plaland?
DUNN
peci call onl two thing reall—the photo of Natalie Wood in Life at the conference tale in
the William Morri o ce, and then Natalie aing that the tudio took care of her. i i not to
ugget that he wa the model for lue Tler, ecaue lue wa ui generi, and when I got to
know Natalie, he wa a twice-married oung mother. ut with all thee people, Otto and ill
and George and Natalie, there wa the ene of the tudio controlling their live, their detinie
in ever apect, and the concomitant ene that however the tudio’ uject—the actor,
director, producer, and writer under contract—might have ridled under the idea that the
tudio knew et, the did not ever reall reel. ere i a line in Plaland when Arthur French
a rather adl aout ome lie the tudio put out, “People elieved tudio in thoe da.” What
he meant of coure wa that people were o truting the even elieved the untruth, a the
were uppoed to. at period, the late , wa the lat time that the tudio exercied total
control and had real power. Televiion wa jut a dark cloud on the horizon and the government
had not et forced the tudio to divet themelve of their theater chain. A tudio’ power wa
o aolute in thoe da that it impl would not have permitted a contract tar of the calier of
Julia Roert, a, to marr omeone like Lle Lovett, a funn-looking elow-the-title inger.
I N T RV I W R
o ou et out wanting to do a novel aout Hollwood in thi period?
DUNN
Actuall, no. I tarted out to do a novel aout lue Tler’ daughter. I thought of her a a
contemporar iter Carrie, ut I couldn’t make the ook work. en Joan and I were aked to
write a creenpla aout ug iegel, which we turned down. ut there wa omething aout
the idea that intrigued me and I uggeted a tor aout a New York gangter who come to
Hollwood and fall in love with hirle Temple. Not hirle Temple herelf, God know, ut a
major child tar, eventeen ear old, tring to cro over into grown-up role, with the
vocaular of a longhoreman and the moral of a mink. We wrote the creenpla ut it fell
etween the crack when the tudio we wrote it for wa acquired another tudio, which in
Hollwood i the ki of death for project initiated the acquired tudio. e executive at the
new place are cared enough of getting urned their own project without having to take the
fall for failed project from another tudio. e go out of their wa to ad-rap the other tudio’
project. Much of the interpla etween the loathome director dne Allen and m narrator
Jack roderick i a direct reult of thi experience, although I had no idea at the time that I wa
going to make ue of it. en I lot a ear to medicine. Firt I had open heart urger, and jut a
I wa recovering from that, I got lood poioning.
I N T RV I W R
And it wa during that ear’ hiatu that Plaland took hape? Or another hape?
DUNN
Ye. I rethought it. I had thi murder ook I had acquired while doing another picture, the lm
of m novel True Confeion, which had a crucial cene in a morgue. Now I had never een to a
morgue, and o one night at two o’clock in the morning the director Ulu Groard and I were
taken inide the morgue, aolutel againt regulation, a homicide detective. We aw the
cold room, where the corpe are kept, and we aw autopie eing performed and the decomp
room, where decompoing odie are tored—the mot God-awful mell, I had to moke a cigar
to get pat it. It wa quite an experience. A erward, the homicide cop let u look through old
murder le. ere wa an implicit quid pro quo attached—he wanted to e a technical advior
on True Confeion and if we aw omething ele that hit our fanc, mone would change hand.
It wa on thi expedition that I read the murder ook of an unolved murder. e “murder
ook” i what cop call the hitor of an invetigation, containing police report, forenic
photograph, autopie, the quetioning of witnee and upect, correpondence, update, all
the wa to the nal dipoition of the cae—in ome intance the ga chamer. e ook in thi
cae wa till open, a are all unolved murder. everal thing attracted me to it. Firt wa that
the victim, who wa onl eventeen, had gone to the ame chool m daughter wa attending.
econd, the apartment uilding where he lived wa one I knew well—it wa the home of
friend of our. And third, hirle Temple wa a choolmate of the victim—her telephone
numer wa in the victim’ addre ook. i wa ten ear efore I even egan thinking of
writing a novel aout a former child tar. ere wa alo a riveting forenic photo of the attered
and naked girl on a gurne in the morgue. omeone had placed a doil over her puic area; it
wa an aurd daintine conidering the circumtance of her death and the ravage of the
aault viile on the ret of her od. e cop aid I could have the ook for twent-four hour,
o I took it, got it photocopied and the forenic picture photocopied. It wa ack in the le the
next evening. I uppoe one might call the entire endeavor an example of o -the-ook free
enterprie.
I N T RV I W R
And thi i the murder that appear in the ook?
DUNN
Conideral rewritten to accommodate the narrative. I had the le for ear and didn’t know
what to do with it. I wa not intereted in it itelf a a dicrete literar endeavor and I did not
know how to t it in anplace ele. What intrigued me motl were the loop and turn of a
criminal invetigation, the numer of tangential live it happened to touch, and how in the
coure of the detective work a moaic of pett treaon, moral midemeanor and quiet
deperation emerged that had nothing to do with the murder in quetion ut onl with
permutation of life itelf.
I N T RV I W R
Again, it’ intereting how much of the ook i aed on fact.
DUNN
Fact i like cla. You hape it to our own end. For example, I wanted a namer of name efore
the Houe Un-American Activitie Committee who wa a mpathetic, and unrepentant,
character. o I invented Chuckie O’Hara. Ga. A director. An admitted communit efore
HUAC. ut then a wounded war hero in World War II. And nall omeone who purged
himelf naming name and then lived out the ret of hi da without guilt. It i aout
Chuckie, at hi funeral, that I wrote, “Whatever hi trangreion, in the end he wa one of
them. Memerhip in the cloed ociet of the motion picture indutr i almot never revoked
for moral failing.” at i a coda for Hollwood even unto the preent da.
I N T RV I W R
o Plaland i aout thi cloed ociet?
DUNN
I uppoe o, e. Among other thing. Like, what i truth? ecaue no one in the ook ever
reall tell the truth. Half-truth i the coin of the Hollwood realm.
I N T RV I W R
Whatever happened to lue Tler’ daughter, the one ou originall thought the ook wa
aout?
DUNN
he appear for the rt time on Plaland’ lat page.
I N T RV I W R
To go ack a it, ou tarted o writing for Time magazine. Wa that helpful? Wh did ou
leave?
DUNN
It had to do with Time’ coverage of the Vietnam War. e Time ureau chief, who wa doing
the war out of Hong Kong efore he moved to aigon, wa a gu called Charlie Mohr. Charlie
wa one of the rt to a thi war in’t going to . He wa no mean a lieral; he jut aw it
on the ai of hi reporting. One week we did a wrap-up on the war and Charlie ent in a le,
the rt entence of which wa “ e war in Vietnam i eing lot.” It wa a Frida night, and I
aid to melf, Uh oh, thi i never going into the magazine. I had dinner with Joan and I aid, I
think I’m going to call in ick. he aid, No, ou’ve got to go ack and do it. o I went ack and
did the tor aed on the le, tring to put in the quali er that would get pat Otto
Fuerringer, and went home around three in the morning. e next morning the edited cop
wa on m dek and on the top it aid, “Nice. F.” It wa the complete oppoite of what Charlie’
le wa and what I had written. Redone from top to ottom. Charlie quit and eventuall went
to e New York Time. I aid I no longer wihed to do Vietnam. I ended up doing Lichtentein,
the Common Market, realizing that m da there were numered. Joan and I got married in
Januar. In April I aid, “Do ou mind if I quit?” And that wa it. However, I liked Time. It
taught me how to meet a deadline, to write fat. It’ wonderful training. Writing for Time i like
writing for the movie—ultimatel what ou write i not our, ecaue ou’re not in charge of
what ou’re doing.
I N T RV I W R
Joan worked for the Luce people for a while, didn’t he?
DUNN
For Life. he had pulihed her rt novel Run River and then the ea in louching Toward
ethlehem and wa aout to pulih Pla It A It La when he got the o er to do a column for
Life. I aid, “Don’t do it. It’ll e like eing niled to death duck.” he lated even column.
It wa aout that time we got aked to do our rt movie, o everthing worked out.
I N T RV I W R
Had ou thought of writing for the creen?
DUNN
A a matter of fact I tarted a novel aout Hollwood when working for thi indutrial deign
magazine a er coming out of the arm. I knew nothing aout Hollwood and had never een
there. It wa called “Not the Macedonian” and the rt line wa “ e called him Alexander the
Great.” at’ a far a I ever got. I ued to write a lot of rt line of novel; the econd line wa
the prolem.
I N T RV I W R
How did ou come to e aked to do a creenpla?
DUNN
A wonderful man named Collier Young . . . he wa Virginian, I think, and had married four
time. Wive two and three were Ida Lupino and Joan Fontaine. He lived up on Mulholland
Drive in a place he called the Moue Houe. One ear hi Chritma card aid, “Chritma
greeting from the Moue Houe, former home of Ida Lupino and Joan Fontaine.” He wa the
creator of the televiion erie with the detective, Ramond urr in the wheelchair. He got red
three egment into it, ut he till got paid ever week ecaue it wa hi idea. In , the ame
ear the outh African doctor Chritiaan arnard did the rt heart tranplant, Collie came to
u and aid, I think there’ a movie here. We worked out a tor in which a Howard Hughe
character, Holli Todd, need a heart and hi underling kill a former Olmpic athlete who had
ecome a paraplegic a er an automoile accident and tranplant hi heart into Todd. All the
main character had lat name for rt name, I uppoe ecaue Collie’ name wa Collier
Young. To our amazement it old to ome tudio, I think it wa C, which paid u
thouand dollar. I thought I’d died and gone to heaven. e picture wa never made, though
the creenpla wa novelized and called e Todd Doier. e man who wrote the novelization
aicall took our treatment and jut added onto it. at ook i till in print. It’ old in
eventeen foreign language.
I N T RV I W R
o ou were on our wa?
DUNN
at got u into the Writer Guild and once ou are in the Guild ou can work. e rt
creenpla we wrote that wa produced wa e Panic in Needle Park. M rother Dominick
Dunne took it to variou and undr place and it wa nall ought Joe Levine. We were
told ou had to ell to Joe Levine with one line. e one line that old it to Joe wa “Romeo and
Juliet on junk.”
I N T RV I W R
How do ou and Joan work when ou’re doing a creenpla?
DUNN
With e Panic in Needle Park I wrote the rt dra in aout eighteen da. Joan wa nihing
up her novel Pla It A It La. When I nihed he went over the dra and did her verion.
en we at down and put together the verion we handed in. It’ generall worked that wa
with ever cript we’ve done. e verion the tudio ee i eentiall our third dra . A movie i
o much more chematic than a ook; ou onl have a hundred and twent page, ecaue the
rule of thum i one page equal one minute of creen time, and movie houldn’t e over two
hour long.
I N T RV I W R
Wh in writing for the creen i a lm rarel done without collaoration?
DUNN
I’m not ure that’ o. o Towne work himelf. o doe Alvin argent. ill Goldman. Larr
Gelart. ut I cannot imagine doing a creenpla melf ecaue o much of it i talking it
out rt o ou know where the high point are. With a ook ou can o en do ri , which ou
can’t reall do in a movie unle ou’re a writer-director. We have never wanted to direct
picture. the time we wrote our rt creenpla we had written mae ve ook etween u,
which wa what we wanted to do ecaue we were our own oe—with a ook ou are the
writer, director, editor, cameraman. ut I can a without equivocation that the movie have
upported u for the pat twent-ix ear. We’ve written twent-three ook etween u and
movie nanced nineteen out of the twent-three. And we like doing it.
I N T RV I W R
Wh i it that it’ looked upon with uch detetation people who conider themelve eriou
novelit and who have gone out there to make the mone? Do ou think the’ve actuall had
quite a good time and jut don’t want to admit it?
DUNN
Ye, I do. I’ve never elieved in Hollwood the detroer. e naaer are people who would
have een detroed at Zaar’ if the never went wet of the Hudon. I impl never elieved it.
Faulkner wan’t detroed. Hemingwa wan’t. O’Hara wan’t.
I N T RV I W R
Have ou worked at doctoring other people’ cript? I it worth it?
DUNN
Ye. ix gure a week if ou’re an good, hundred grand at the minimum. We’ve all done it. For
a long time I couldn’t undertand wh the paid o much. If ou get a ix- gure weekl fee ou
think it’ more mone than there i in the world. e tudio, however, i looking at a fort-
million-dollar picture, and if it doen’t get done the are out all that mone. o the will throw
in writer at a hundred and grand a week to put in joke, put in cene jut to get the picture
on . . . the alwa anwer with mone. e wort thing that can happen i that the project get
uhed, ecaue then the loe all the mone pent for development, which can add up to
million of dollar.
I N T RV I W R
Can ou give a few example of creenwriting at it et?
DUNN
Chinatown. Roert Towne. It wa a wonderfull intricate, well-worked creenpla with an
enormou amount of atmophere. Another one: Graham Greene and Carol Reed in e ird
Man. at i the et collaoration etween writer and director I can think of. It i the one
movie Joan and I alwa watch efore we tart a cript ecaue it i o rilliantl worked out. It’
ver hort, an hour and fort- ve minute. What ele? I wouldn’t a it’ one of the et, ut
Truman Capote’ eat the Devil. Oh, and uentin Tarantino’ Reervoir Dog, a terrifing and
funn creenpla; I liked it much more than Pulp Fiction, which jut eemed to rework Reervoir
Dog.
I N T RV I W R
I aume a great creenpla can e detroed direction and acting.
DUNN
ere’ no uch thing a a great creenpla. ecaue the are not meant to e read. ere are jut
great movie.
I N T RV I W R
o when ou talk aout a good creenpla ou’re reall talking aout what director and actor
did with it. ere’ no wa one could have a recognizale tle a a creenwriter?
DUNN
What the creenwriter i ceding to the director i pace, mood, tle, point of view, which in a
ook are the function of the writer. e director control the writing room, and it’ in the
editing room where a picture i made.
I N T RV I W R
I there a formula to creenwriting?
DUNN
Not in general. peci call perhap. ill Goldman once aid that ou tart a cene a deep in a
ou can poil go. You don’t tart the cene with omeod walking through the door, itting
down, and tarting a converation. ill aid ou tart a cene in the middle of the converation,
which I think i a ver atute oervation.
I N T RV I W R
Would ou divide the creenpla into act, a ome people do?
DUNN
e tudio people talk aout rt act, econd act, third act. We don’t do it when we’re writing.
When we were doing True Confeion, Ulu Groard came up with a wonderful take. He aid
the cript wa a “one-pan ridge” and it needed to e a “two-pan ridge.” I knew exactl what
he meant. e creenpla we had went up once and came down intead of going up twice and
then coming down. In other word, we needed a third act.
I N T RV I W R
I there a connection etween a writer who ha literar merit and a creenwriter? I a creenpla
uch a departure from the novel that one hardl need to know how to write to ecome a
creenwriter?
DUNN
What troule me i that creenwriter toda eem to have had no life other than lm chool.
e’ve rarel een reporter; the’ve rarel gone out and experienced a wider world. I had the
arm, I wa a reporter for ten ear, I’d een to Vietnam—not for long, ut long enough to
know I didn’t like to get hot at—I covered laor trike and murder trial and race riot. e
entire frame of reference the ounger creenwriter have i other movie. It’ econdhand. And if
ou teal a moment from an old movie, ou can proal et that the moment ou tole wa
proal itelf tolen in the rt place.
I N T RV I W R
Would ou recommend to a oung peron a career a a creenwriter?
DUNN
I’m not ure I would, ecaue ou’re reall not a writer and ou’re reall not a lmmaker. I once
aid that the mot ou could apire to e a a creenwriter i a copilot. If ou are going to write
movie full-time and ou don’t write ook like Joan and I do, then ou etter aim to e a
director ecaue that’ the onl wa ou’re going to e in charge, and eing in charge i what
writing i all aout.
I N T RV I W R
You ound downeat aout creenwriting.
DUNN
Look. It pa a lot and it’ fun. It’ etter than teaching and etter than lecturing, the other
compenator alternative for writer without jo. ut it i hard fucking work. On our lat
cript, Up Cloe and Peronal, it took eight ear to get it on. We quit three time. Two other
writer came on oard and le . In all we wrote twent-even dra efore a frame of lm wa
hot, then we worked for event-even da during the hoot, rewriting. e picture wa
originall uppoed to e aout Jeica avitch, a golden girl for NC New who amed out and
died in an automoile accident. he wa a mall-town girl with more amition than rain, an
overactive liido, a exual amivalence, a tenuou hold on the truth, a tate for controlled
utance, a longtime auive vengali relationhip, and a certain mental intailit. Dine wa
the tudio and the rt thing Dine wanted to know wa if he had to die in the end. And the
weren’t craz aout an interracial love a air he had, nor her aortion, nor the coke, nor the
leianim, nor the ga huand who hung himelf in her aement, nor the ofriend who eat
her up. Otherwie the loved the idea. Making that work wa work. ight ear worth. Twent-
even dra worth. ank God it wa a hit.