Road Podcast

“ Simple Is a ”
Superpower
 Simple Is a Superpower: How to
Communicate Any Idea to Any
Audience
Matt Abrahams: The best communicators
spend the most time honing their
communication. They work on storytelling,
understanding their audience, making their
content relevant. Today we’ll explore what’s
involved in becoming a great communicator.
I’m Matt Abrahams, and I teach Strategic
Communication at Stanford Graduate School
of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk
Smart: The Podcast. Today I’m looking
forward to speaking with Carmine Gallo.
Carmine is the Founder and CEO of Gallo
Communications.
Welcome, Carmine. I’m super excited to chat
with you, and thanks for being here.
Carmine Gallo: Matt, thank you. Thanks for
inviting me. Congratulations on the success
of your podcast. I have been an eager fan of
this podcast because I’ve loved so many of
your interviews. It’s very hard to stand out,
and it seems as though you’ve been standing
out by helping others stand out.
Matt Abrahams: Well, thank you. I
appreciate that, and I’m excited to hear
what we have to talk about today, so let’s
get started. I know you spend a lot of time
helping leaders communicate more
effectively. One of the things you talk about
is leaders are often translators. And I’d for
you to share with our listeners what that
means for you because I wholly agree; I
think that’s exactly right. Help us understand
how a leader is a translator, and what are
some things people can do to be better
translators.
Carmine Gallo: In order for anyone to take
action on your ideas, in order for you to
persuade — persuasion simply means
combining words and ideas to move people
to action — requires that the listener
understands clearly the desired action.
You’re often speaking, depending on your
field, in a very different language. Even if
you’re speaking to someone who’s speaking
the same language; that’s not the point.
You’re using words and complexity and
jargon and shortcuts, abbreviations and
acronyms that your listener doesn’t
understand simply because they’re not in
the same field. Let me give you an example. I
think this is the best way of describing what
a translator is. I’m going to give you an
example that I’ve been thinking about since
I’ve been booked for your podcast because it
just happened recently.
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
Carmine Gallo: I spoke to a prominent global
scientist. Her name is Annie Kritcher. She
plays a crucial role in a recent headline-
grabbing experiment in what’s called fusion,
which is replicating the sun’s power for
renewable energy. And very prominent
scientist in STEM and an advocate for
women in science. So I caught up with her
and I asked her, “Please explain in plain
English to a nonscientist, what is it that you
achieved?” because they made, again, this
headline-grabbing experiment. What she
said is — here’re exactly her words:
“Carmine, we’re bringing the same process
that powers the sun to the earth to harness
the energy in a controlled setting. It’s
important because it’s the Holy Grail of the
clean energy future.” Anyone can
understand that and understand that she
was using metaphors like, “It’s the Holy
Grail,” “harnessing the power of the sun,
bringing it to earth.” Simple,
understandable. I went back to Annie and I
said, “Annie, do me a favor. How would you
explain it to a peer? How would you explain
this experiment to a peer?” Without missing
a beat, because it’s so easy for her to do it,
she said, “Oh, that’s easy. We were able to
achieve ignition, a rapid increase in
[Deuterium-tritium] temperature associated
with alpha particle self-heating by increasing
the hotspot plasma energy density.” And I
had to read that from a paper because
there’s no way I could remember that. I was
blown away. Matt, I was like, oh my
goodness, it’s a completely different
language. On the fly, she could translate this
incredibly complex science experiment and
this milestone in science. She can translate it
depending on her audience. And I asked her,
“How were you able to do this?” She said, “I
didn’t learn it in school,” which is why we
need podcasts like this. You don’t learn this
stuff in school. But she said,
“Communication is the number one skill
leaders need to align teams around a bold
mission.” Matt, if you cannot explain the
science to get buy-in from investors,
stakeholders, peers, agencies, regulators,
government, if you cannot speak the same
language to different stakeholders and adapt
the language for those different
stakeholders, you’ll never get anything done.
Matt Abrahams: Thank you so much for
sharing that example, Carmine. That is a
classic, crystal-clear example of the power of
translation. She knew her audience and was
able to adjust. She used a tool like an
analogy to help all of us. As leaders, in our
roles, we need to think about how we can
make our content accessible so that people
understand us. So thank you for sharing that.
I’d like to turn our attention to some of your
many books. In your book, “Talk Like TED,”
which is a great helpful read, your subtitle
specifies that you identify “The Nine Secrets
of the World’s Top Minds.” Would you mind
sharing with us one or two of those secrets?
And how can we use those to help our
communication?
Carmine Gallo: “Talk Like TED” was a book
that I wrote based on conversations with
famous TED speakers. So it’s not necessarily
a book on how to get on a TED stage, how to
fill out the form and become a TED speaker.
It’s what can we learn from some of the
world’s great speakers who have taken a
TED stage in addition to leading
organizations or their teams. And one thing
in particular became storytelling, which is
something that I know you’ve covered in
your podcast. I know that it’s something that
you teach at Stanford. Storytelling is
fundamental to not only the way we
communicate as humans but to giving a TED
talk or any powerful presentation. So one of
the TED commandments, as they’re really
called — TED commandments — these are
the guidelines for anyone who wants to
speak on a TED stage, is to not necessarily
start with a story, although most people do,
but it’s to tell stories, personal stories,
because stories inform, they illuminate,
educate. I think one of the best examples of
storytelling is Bryan Stevenson. Bryan is a
famous human rights attorney who gave a
very famous TED speech. I talked to him
after his TED talk. Seventy percent of his TED
talk was just personal stories, anecdotes
from the people he’s met, the people he’s
helped, or other folks that he has met and
how they created his personality and fueled
his passion for human rights and what he
does. And so I asked him, “Why do you tell
so many stories in your presentations?” And
remember, this is a guy who wins cases
before the U.S. Supreme Court, so he knows
how to persuade. And he said, “Carmine,
you have to tell stories to break down
barriers between people because it’s
through personal stories that we connect
with one another as humans.” A lot of
professionals, maybe people listening to this
podcast, get confused, I think, when we talk
about storytelling. They say, “Well, I’m not a
novelist. I’m not a screenwriter. How does
storytelling apply to me?” Well, as a species,
we’re storytellers. It’s in our DNA. It’s
universal across culture, across languages,
across countries. You are a storyteller first.
What happens when we create
PowerPoints? All of a sudden, we lose our
sense of story. It’s all about bullet points and
inserting text and getting the right photo or
image or using the right font. We forget the
narrative. I believe anyone who wants to
aspire to a leadership position or career
advancement or actually wants to get
something done, understand that you’re a
storyteller first. PowerPoint comes after.
PowerPoint or a presentation complements
the story, but you have craft the narrative
first. That’s the big lesson I learned from the
great TED speakers.
Matt Abrahams: I’m smiling as you say that
because, almost word for word, I find myself
saying the same thing — story first, story
first. And the notion that story is built into
being human, absolutely accurate. And I
really liked how you said that story bridges
and connects us to other people. I
encourage the people I work with, the
students I teach to tell me, what’s the story
you’re telling here, to get them to frame it as
a story rather than just a list of facts and a
list of ideas. While many of your books,
Carmine, address influence and persuasion,
a topic that our listeners are very interested
in, your book “Five Stars” dives deeply into
persuasion. I have a specific angle I’d like
you to talk about when it comes to
persuasion. How do you encourage people
to be more effective in their persuasion in
the midst of resistance, hesitation, and
concern about what it is you’re trying to
persuade people on?
Carmine Gallo: One of the reasons why I
focus on storytelling is exactly what Bryan
Stevenson told me: You’re most likely going
to be speaking to people who are resistant
to change, so that’s why you have to use
tools and vehicles that connect one another
and lower barriers between people. That’s
why storytelling, I think, is a fundamental
aspect of persuasion. Storytelling, check. The
other is to think about the audience first. It’s
not about you. It’s about your audience.
Reverse engineer — and I think you do this
too, Matt; you’ve taught this — reverse
engineer the presentation. Reverse engineer
your pitch or your argument. What is the
audience’s pain point? What keeps them up
at night? Whenever I speak to international
audiences or I travel around and give
keynote speeches, I bombard the organizers
and the people responsible for those
companies with a lot of questions ahead of
time. I want to get into the heads of the
audience. I need to know what keeps them
up at night. And then I reverse engineer the
presentation and my argument to help
them. Here in Silicon Valley where I live, I
talk to a lot of venture capitalists. And
people come in with their pitch, and they’re
enamored of their technology or how cool it
is, or take a look at our demo, and they
forget act one. They forget there’s a three-
act structure to good storytelling. And act
one is the setup, explaining the status quo.
What is the problem with the status quo?
People like Steve Jobs were brilliant because
they could show you problems that you
didn’t even know you had until after his
presentation. Then you realize I think I do
need that Apple iPhone. That’s brilliant
persuasion. But I think it’s audience first.
And I’ve come to realize that very few
people do that. They open their PowerPoint,
they open their presentation and just start
filling in information that’s important to
them, or that’s exciting to them. Why should
my audience care? As you’ve said, so what?
My background is in journalism, and
Journalism 101, first day of graduate school:
Why should I care? That is the first question
you ask. Why should your audience care
about the topic? That’s the headline.
Everything else feeds into the headline.

And so I suggest we reverse engineer

presentations and pitches or any business
proposal of any type. Why should your
audience care? What’s their pain point? How
is your idea or solution going to make their
life better so everybody lives happily ever
after? That’s reverse engineering the story.
Matt Abrahams: You’ve summarized so
nicely what many of our podcast episodes
have been about, which is really about
structure in story and about knowing your
audience. And what I hear you saying, the
key to dealing with resistance and concern
and hesitation is to make your argument,
your persuasion relevant and salient to the
audience and then work backwards from
what their concerns are. And I love that
concept of reverse engineering. And that’s
very powerful and I think will go a long way
to addressing the concerns that your
audience might have. You have two books
about Steve Jobs, one exploring his approach
to innovation and the other looking at his
presenting. Your newest book, “The Bezos
Blueprint,” is all about Jeff Bezos. By your
accounts, both men were tenacious. They
worked hard on their communication and
had specific approaches to it. Can you
highlight one or two communication
principles that each of these gentlemen
demonstrated and how we, reading your
books and learning from you, could benefit
from them?
Carmine Gallo: There’s a theme that runs
throughout my books, whether it’s Steve
Jobs or TED talks or a new one on Jeff Bezos.
The theme that runs across my books is very
clear to me now — maybe it wasn’t clear
when I first started — is that effective
communicators in any field have practiced
the skill. Communication is, above all, a
learned skill. Great communicators are
made, not born. Steve Jobs was not born,
nor was he early in his career, a charismatic
stage presence like the Steve Jobs that
people recall from 2007 when he introduced
the iPhone. He became one of the greatest
business storytellers of our time. Jeff Bezos
— I analyzed 24 years of his writing. As
Amazon grew in complexity, his writing
became simpler, more concise, easier to
understand. And that’s intentional. That’s
something that happens with both of these
entrepreneurs because they’re intentional
about improving and working on
communication. So the theme that I have
found — and it’s a valuable piece of advice
for everyone — is that communication is a
learned skill. Public speaking is a learned
skill. The minute you think you know it all is
the moment you stop growing. I had a
conversation with a famous astronaut, a
Canadian astronaut named Chris Hadfield
who gave a very famous TED talk. He’s called
the singing astronaut — he sang a version of
a David Bowie song while he was floating
weightless in space. We were talking
specifically about his TED talk, and he said,
“You know, Carmine, it was interesting
because I’ve been speaking as an astronaut
for 25 years. I speak to Rotary Clubs and
organizations and schools. The TED
organizers gave me some tips on how to
deliver a better presentation, and I learned a
lot. That’s the point, Matt. Good
communicators are learn-it-all’s. They’re
constantly receptive to new ideas, new ways
of communicating.
If you think you’re a good speaker, a good
presenter and you don’t need any help, I’ll
bet that you’re not nearly as effective as you
think you are.
Matt Abrahams: This notion of continually
developing and the desire to improve is
something I see in all of the people I work
with who have really improved and who are
and are becoming good speakers. This desire
to improve and being humble and giving
yourself a little bit of grace to say that there
are areas for improvement is really
important. And I appreciate you highlighting
that. I feel many people think that there’s
some endpoint when it comes to developing
communication skills. And I think what
you’ve just shared with us is what I see all
the time, that it’s a continual process.
Carmine, I’ve studied martial arts for a long,
long time, and I very much remember when I
received my first black belt. My instructor
looked at me and said, “Congratulations.
Now let’s get started.” And that to me was a
very powerful moment because it reminded
me that there’s always more to learn, and I
think you’ve highlighted that with regard to
communication. Thank you.

Carmine Gallo: I love that. What a great

anecdote.

Matt Abrahams: Yeah. And it’s been one

that’s motivated me for a long time. Before
we end, Carmine, I’d like to ask you the
same three questions I ask everyone who
joins me. Are you up for that?
Carmine Gallo: Absolutely.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent. Question number

one: If you were to capture the best
communication advice you’ve ever received
as a five- to seven-word presentation slide
title, what would it be?

Carmine Gallo: Storytellers drive change and

innovation.
Matt Abrahams: That one’s encapsulated so
many of the things you talked about. It’s
about storytelling. It’s about being
persuasive and innovative. It’s about
speaking in a way that makes your content
accessible. Wonderful, wonderful summary
in those five to seven words. Question
number two — and this one I’ll be very
curious to hear from you: Who is a
communicator that you admire and why?
Carmine Gallo: I’ll give you a modern
contemporary communicator that everyone
around the world is going to know, and
that’s the billionaire Warren Buffett. As we
speak, I think he’s the third wealthiest
person on earth. Warren Buffett is an
intentional communicator. If you’ve read his
shareholders letters, they’re models of
simplicity. And he is an expert with using
metaphor to explain complex financial ideas.
So this idea of investing in companies or
stocks that are surrounded by a moat, that
originated from Warren Buffett, and now
financial analysts use it every day on
business news — “We like that company
because it’s surrounded by a moat.”
Warren Buffett is very intuitive and
understands that in order to express ideas
simply, you have to connect with people in a
language they understand, and that’s often
metaphors and analogies that are familiar to
them. So I would put Warren Buffett at the
top of my list as a contemporary
communicator.
Matt Abrahams: Warren Buffett has some
wonderful sayings; he’s a great role model.
And one of the things I admire most about
him is he is out front saying the importance
of communication. He says one of the best
skills people can learn in their education, in
practice is communication. So not only is he
a good role model, he’s a good advocate for
what you and I both do. Question number
three: What are the first three ingredients
that go into a successful communication
recipe?
Carmine Gallo: Big picture before details.
Matt Abrahams: Mm-hmm.
Carmine Gallo: So again, think about your
audience. What’s the big picture? What’s in
it for them? Why should they care? Answer
that in the first 60 seconds. Then they’ll be
hooked for the rest of the movie. Get them
to want to watch the movie first in the first
scene. So big picture first. Big picture, then
details. Second ingredient is storytelling.
Reframe the way you see yourself as a
communicator. You are not a PowerPoint
presenter. You’re a storyteller. PowerPoint
complements the story. And third — and
something very important these days, more
important than ever — we are bombarded
by complexity and an overload of
information.

Simplify, simplify, simplify. And maybe those

were the three — simplify, simplify, simplify.
They could have been the three.

Matt Abrahams: [Laughs] Simplify.

Carmine Gallo: Simplify by choosing simpler
words, easier to understand explanations,
less jargon, shorter words to replace
bureaucratic language or convoluted words.
I call simple the new superpower because I
see how valuable it is. So big picture,
storytelling, and simplicity. If you can master
those three ingredients, you’ll be head and
shoulders above the vast majority of
business professionals.
Matt Abrahams: You’ve given us a very clear
rubric to strive towards, this notion of start
with the big picture; make sure that it’s
relevant, audience specific, and tells a story;
and then finally, make it simple and
accessible. Wonderful advice, as is
everything you’ve said, Carmine. It was such
a pleasure not only to get to chat with you
but to watch how you model and
demonstrate the things that you talk about.
Thank you so much. I appreciate your
specific, actionable advice and guidance.
And I wish you well with your new book.
Carmine Gallo: Thank you so much, Matt. I
appreciate it, and I really appreciate the
opportunity to speak to a receptive
audience, people who get it, and they
understand this skill and how important it is.
So thanks again.

Matt Abrahams: Ending…

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