Wikidata:Property proposal/Church of Jesus Christ missionary ID

Church of Jesus Christ missionary ID

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Person

Done: Church of Jesus Christ missionary ID (P8930) (Talk and documentation)

Description	ID of a missionary in Church of Jesus Christ missionary database (1830-1930)
Represents	The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Q42504)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	people
Allowed values	[a-z]+(-[a-z]+)*-\d{4}
Example 1	Lester Herrick (Q6531876) → lester-james-herrick-1827
Example 2	George Q. Cannon (Q947083) → george-quayle-cannon-1827
Example 3	Wilford Woodruff (Q560707) → wilford-woodruff-1807
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Number of IDs in source	40000
Formatter URL	https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/missionary/individual/$1
Robot and gadget jobs	Mix'n'Match may help
See also	Wikidata:Property proposal/Church of Jesus Christ pioneer ID

Motivation

(Add your motivation for this property here.) GZWDer (talk) 09:33, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Oppose A website of a cult is not a reliable source. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 20:45, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Visite fortuitement prolongée: Have you looked at the linked pages? They present extensive factual information on each person about their travels around the world, this seems of general interest where we have existing Wikidata items for these people. Why would you reject such information? ArthurPSmith (talk) 21:37, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Because a website of a cult is not a reliable source in my opinion. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 21:51, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - So I assume you similarly opposed French Catholic Church structure ID (P3396) etc.? ArthurPSmith (talk) 20:04, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - No. I am using the word « cult » in its pejorative meaning. « le terme a pris dans plusieurs langues, et particulièrement en français, une dimension péjorative voire polémique1,2, et tend à y désigner à présent un groupe ou une organisation, souvent mais pas nécessairement à caractère religieux, dont les croyances, les pratiques ou le comportement sont jugés obscurs, inquiétants ou nocifs par le reste de la société1. § Les responsables des groupes dits « sectaires » sont souvent suspectés d'étouffer la liberté individuelle au sein du groupe ou de manipuler mentalement leurs membres, en s'appropriant parfois leurs biens et les maintenant par divers procédés dans un état de sujétion psychologique ou physique, entre autres par la fatigue, et en outre de menacer l'ordre public3. » [1] Also, I don't like an organieation who rule against homosexuality, and who baptize (with her own rites) many (metric) tons of human beings without their consent. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 20:06, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        @Visite fortuitement prolongée: I don't understand your claims here, the Roman Catholic church fits all those criteria at least as well (do babies consent to baptism? How?). Is nobody excommunicated any more? At least they're not burned at the stake these days! :) ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:29, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        
        By the way, en:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in France has some discussion of this church in relation to the French definition of cult, under the "Reception" heading; however the frwiki version uses the word "culte" several times apparently non-pejoratively, perhaps there's a meaning distinction I'm missing here? ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:35, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - According to Britannica, "the beliefs of the church are characterized by a unique understanding of the Godhead, emphasis on family life, belief in continuing revelation, desire for order, respect for authority, and missionary work. Its members obey strict prohibitions on alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and tea and promote education and a vigorous work ethic". And Mormonism has "more than 16 million members". They can be wrong, but I don't thing that this definition of cult should be applied to them. --Gerwoman (talk) 17:08, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support --Gerwoman (talk) 15:12, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support Not liking a certain religion does not make theirbdqtabases untrustworthy. --Trade (talk) 12:45, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support in case that was not clear. However I'm not marking as "ready" given my involvement in the above discussion, maybe somebody else can judge that? ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:08, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral same concerns as Visite fortuitement prolongée, however the database looks valid to me. --Hannes Röst (talk) 01:48, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support Even you consider LDS a cult after 200 years of existence, and 10M adherents, their database of information would be the best source of information on them. --RAN (talk) 02:46, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]