Wikidata:Property proposal/Kompositionsfuge

Qualifiers for combines lexemes (P5238)

joining suffix in compound

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Lexemes

   Not done

Description	suffix used to combine lexemes
Represents	linking morpheme (Q1472909)
Data type	Lexeme
Domain	lexeme
Allowed values	suffixes
Example 1	Verkehrszeichen (L11634) combines lexemes (P5238) Verkehr (L24056) [joining suffix in compound] → -s (L24052) Zeichen (L6879)
Example 2	Liebeslied (L24067) combines lexemes (P5238) Liebe (L2048) [joining suffix in compound] → -s (L24052) Lied (L24066)
Example 3	Arbeitsamt (L24094) combines lexemes (P5238) Arbeit (L24088) [joining suffix in compound] → -s (L24052) Amt (L24089)
Example 4	паровоз (L24232) combines lexemes (P5238) пар (L24218) [joining suffix in compound] → -о- (L24233) воз (L24231)

suffix removed in compound

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Lexemes

   Not done

Description	suffix removed from the lexeme
Represents	linking morpheme (Q1472909)
Data type	Lexeme
Domain	lexeme
Allowed values	suffixes
Example 1	Kronprinz (L24059) combines lexemes (P5238) Krone (L24057) [suffix removed in compound] → -e (L24060) Prinz (L24058)
Example 2	Seelsorge (L24063) combines lexemes (P5238) Seele (L24062) [suffix removed in compound] → -e (L24060) Sorge (L7326)
Example 3	Spiralarm (L2522) combines lexemes (P5238) Spirale (L17747) [suffix removed in compound] → -e (L24060) Arm (L17505)

Examples for both qualifiers combined

Mietshaus (L24055)

combines lexemes (P5238)

Miete (L24054)

[suffix removed in compound] → -e (L24060)

[joining suffix in compound] → -s (L24052)

Haus (L2957)

Motivation

These property are designed for compounds in German. A similar logic may apply to other languages. Probably to languages that have a Wikipedia page linked to linking morpheme (Q1472909). A review of someone familiar with Extremaduran (Q30007), Norwegian (Q9043) or Swedish (Q9027) is appreciated. Please add examples languages other than German.

The Properties have simple labels in German Kompositionsfuge & Subtraktionsfuge. The English labels I improvised, are descriptive at most. Is there a technical term in English? If yes, please add it.

I am not an expert on the subject and I don't expect this proposal to be perfect. Any feedback is appreciated. --Shisma (talk) 09:37, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Edit: added a Russian example.--Shisma (talk) 10:42, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Comment I don't get why "joining suffix in compound" cannot be just entered as middle element of combines lexemes (P5238) property. KaMan (talk) 10:50, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

@KaMan: Just an idea. Lets say, you wanted to write a software that converts text into Leichte Sprache (Q55523846), where compound nouns are seperated by the ·-character. Eg:

Bundesgleichstellungsgesetz → Bundes·Gleichstellungs·Gesetz

For this application, it would be critical to know which fragment holds the affix. Idially (I guess) the -es in Bundesgleichstellung… is a suffix to Bund rather than a prefix to Gleichstellung or an interfix to both. The database model should probably reflect that. --Loominade (talk) 10:54, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

@Loominade: But it's obvious which fragment holds the affix because there should be series ordinal (P1545) set for every fragment. Without series ordinal (P1545) there is no order specified to build Leichte Sprache (Q55523846). KaMan (talk) 11:13, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

@KaMan: It might be obvious for you. With series ordinal (P1545) only -es could also be a prefix for Gleichstellung which would make Bund·Es·Gleichstellung·S·Gesetz or Bund·Esgleichstellung·Sgesetz a possible output. --Loominade (talk) 11:24, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

@Loominade: No, it can't be prefix because -es is supposed to be lexeme with lexical category set to suffix (Q102047). KaMan (talk) 11:40, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

That is also a way to look at it. -Loominade (talk) 11:58, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

• For German, I think it would make more sense to have the non-final compound forms as forms on the original lexemes instead of repeating it every time on all the compound nouns. For example, in a spellcheck word list on my computer, all compound nouns starting with Verkehr use the form "Verkehrs-", because that's how the word Verkehr forms compound nouns. If a word forms compounds in multiple unpredictable ways, we already have object form (P5548) which can be used to indicate a specific form. - Nikki (talk) 12:42, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
  • Sounds interesting. Maybe in that approach the two above could be used on the form that is being used (instead as qualifier on the lexeme using the form) --- Jura 00:30, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
  • For a simple spell check that approach might suffice. But for an actual dictionary, or translations one needs German compounds as lexemes. There should be a lexeme for Zeit·Geist because the word still has a unique etymology and it is the bases lexemes in other languages that aren't compounds anymore. Without compound nouns there is no german translation for words like glove (L4893) or refrigerator (L25809) --Shisma (talk) 08:43, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
•  Comment At least for the Slavic languages, this -o- is really a remnant of the original stem-final vowel, having its origin in the Proto-Indo-European thematic vowel. So it's not something that joins words, but rather an ending that the first word takes when it is being compounded. You see the same kind of thing in Ancient Greek, for example, and in Latin it's always -i-. I'd say it's a form of the word. —Rua (mew) 18:18, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
•  Oppose "Joining suffix in compound" It's not even a suffix to begin with, but rather an interfix (Q1153504). These are just one of the elements involved in the compound in questions. Circeus (talk) 18:00, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

 Not done No support.--Micru (talk) 09:45, 22 December 2018 (UTC)