Wikidata:Property proposal/fanqie

fanqie

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Lexemes

Done: fanqie (P5523) (Talk and documentation)

Description	the pronunciation of a monosyllabic Chinese character represented by two other Chinese characters
Represents	fanqie (Q1899324)
Data type	Item
Template parameter	6th and 7th character of wikt:Module:zh/data/ltc-pron
Domain	CJKV character (Q item [instance of CJKV character (Q53764732)] or lexeme?)
Allowed values	two items that are instances of CJKV character (Q53764732)
Example	鈙 → 巨 (series ordinal (P1545)1), 禁 (series ordinal (P1545)2)
Source	Jiyun (Q35792), Guangyun (Q2189818), Qieyun (Q1271885)
Number of IDs in source	approximately 40,000 items
See also	`\|phienthiet=` of wikt:Template:vi-readings

Motivation

This type of pronunciation guide is commonly found in old Chinese and Sino-Vietnamese dictionaries. Minh Nguyễn ^💬 07:28, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Weak support (my support is weak only because my level in Chinese is weak). Could we define a constraint based on the pronunciation? Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 13:42, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. Ideally we want a datatype that takes exactly two Lexemes with a specified order. I guess series ordinal (P1545) and property constraints can help us on this, but this requires the use of a qualifier. This breaks down when we try to list multiple fanqies from different dictionaries - since Wikidata property values aren't ordered by design, the rendering can get quite ugly. Deryck Chan (talk) 14:42, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support I’m not familiar with fanqie (Q1899324), but data related to Han characters are important. Now Han characters are represented as items (instance of sinogram (Q53764738)), so the data type should be item. --Okkn (talk) 18:51, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment marking as not ready - @Okkn: only one datatype can be used for a given property. The proposal template contains multiple datatypes. − Pintoch (talk) 08:15, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- @Pintoch: At the time of this property proposal creation, there was no consensus of how to represent Han characters (i.e. as Items? or as Lexemes?, see Wikidata:Property_proposal/radical). But now, we have some properties related to Han characters, such as Han character in this lexeme (P5425), and they deal with Han characters as Items (instances of sinogram (Q53764738)). So obviously the datatype of this property also should be Item. I updated the template parameter. --Okkn (talk) 12:23, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This property is useful for Chinese characters found in rime dictionary (Q2191807) such as Jiyun (Q35792), Guangyun (Q2189818) and Qieyun (Q1271885). Readings of fanqie (Q1899324) can be obtained from the 6th and 7th character of wikt:Module:zh/data/ltc-pron, eg. wikt:Module:zh/data/ltc-pron/鈙. The other values in the module are for division and tone which are used for reconstructed middle Chinese readings (not required by this property). KevinUp (talk) 10:25, 21 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]