Talk:Mark Baldwin (baseball)

Mark Baldwin (baseball) is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on January 18, 2024.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
August 18, 2023	Good article nominee	Listed
October 12, 2023	Featured article candidate	Promoted

Current status: Featured article

Pennsylvania Low‑importance

	Pennsylvania portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pennsylvania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pennsylvania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PennsylvaniaWikipedia:WikiProject PennsylvaniaTemplate:WikiProject PennsylvaniaPennsylvania articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Baseball: College / Old-time Base Ball / Cubs Mid‑importance

	Baseball portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Baseball, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of baseball on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BaseballWikipedia:WikiProject BaseballTemplate:WikiProject BaseballBaseball articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject College baseball.
	This article is supported by the Old-time Base Ball task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Chicago Cubs (assessed as Low-importance).

United States: Pennsylvania State University Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Pennsylvania State University (assessed as Low-importance).

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Pittsburgh Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pittsburgh, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pittsburgh and its metropolitan area on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PittsburghWikipedia:WikiProject PittsburghTemplate:WikiProject PittsburghPittsburgh articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Incorporative sources

"Sporting Notes". The Sunday Inter Ocean. December 1, 1889. p. 23. Harry Stovey quote, Bug Holliday quote
"St. Louis Browns Here". The Galveston Daily News. December 31, 1889. p. 2. "terrific speed"
Tiemann
"Although never known for a good curve or changeup, he had plenty of speed and the gumption to challenge the best hitters"

"With the demise of the PL after one season, Baldwin was theoretically the property of Columbus again, in the AA. But he ignored the fact and signed with NL Pittsburgh."

Won two complete games in one day in 1890

Jail, false arrest, and kidnapping

Homestead strike

Baseball in Columbus 1889 image

Uncited text

"He posted a 25–17 win–loss record for Duluth, where pitched 373 innings in 43 appearances and completed all 41 of his starts." Needs a reference. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:02, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. 123Writer ^talk 07:48, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mark Baldwin (baseball)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: 1TWO3Writer (talk · contribs) 11:39, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Diberoonis. Part of the August 2023 backlog.

I'll get to this soon. Thank you for the review. Therapyisgood (talk) 19:19, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Therapyisgood Check here for issues. Just found that nifty tool. :) 123Writer ^talk 13:11, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@1TWO3Writer: it won't work for me. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:24, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@1TWO3Writer: I believe I've responded to all of your comments. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:39, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox, Lead, Early life, References

Spot-check went well.

Infobox contains portrait and relevant information. Either cited in-line or in article body.

Lead contains only info also found in body. Relevant summary of career. No style issues, and length proportionate to article.

Early life concise. No style issues. Probably doesn't need expansion as focus is on his baseball career.

No formatting issues with references; seems consistent and does not use blacklisted sources. Usage of online and archived newspaper clippings; good and easy verifiability. Notes usage also good.

123Writer ^talk 16:14, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

While spot checking the Columbus Solons and Chicago Pirates (1889–90) section, I noticed reference 40 also being removed. I'll list any I catch here, be sure to check the others:

19, 40

Fixed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:23, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ones I spot checked and are OK (good links and relevant):

1, 2, 3, 5, 9, 11, 12, 15, 21 27, 35, 38, 46, 49, 51, 55, 56, 57, 63, 67, 72, 78, 80, 83, 90, 92, 98, 99, 102

Another issue is an untitled ref: 64

Fixed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:23, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

123Writer ^talk 16:56, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Professional career (Layout, first section)

Length denotes proper focus. Subheadings good. Usage of blockquote and photo good.

Spot-check for initial section went well. Does the team Baldwin debuted with have a name? If it does, I recommend adding it.

- The source doesn't say. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:29, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Chicago wanted Baldwin to play in the 1886 World Series, but the St. Louis Browns, against whom Chicago played, objected, and Baldwin never played. Could be rewritten. Suggestion: ...but the St. Louis Browns, the/an opposing team, objected, so Baldwin never played. Your discretion.

- Reworked. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:29, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

123Writer ^talk 16:34, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Professional career (Chicago White Stockings (1887–88))

Spot check: 19. Seems to have been moved. Other checks went well.

...Spalding's 1888–89 World Tour, in which he participated, after Baldwin... Probably unnecessary.

- Agreed, good catch, changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:38, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Added a comma. Added a wikilink to the AA.

123Writer ^talk 16:50, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Columbus Solons and Chicago Pirates (1889–90)

Spot-check: 40. has the same issue as 19. All other spot-checks went OK.

...in a showing described as "anything but credible,"... The sudden quote feels a little awkward so perhaps rewrite the sentence or use my suggestion.

- Agreed. Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:30, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

123Writer ^talk 20:44, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pittsburgh Pirates and New York Giants (1891–93)

Spot-check: No bad links. Also all relevant.

...good for fifth in the NL. What does this mean?

123Writer ^talk 21:01, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Realized what it meant. Good according to whom? 123Writer ^talk 21:34, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:31, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Independent ball (1894–95)

Spot-check good. No writing issues.

123Writer ^talk 21:14, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:31, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

After professional baseball and personal life

Spot-check OK.

The first paragraph contains info that happened during his career and should be placed up during that time frame to maintain chronological order. Title could be changed to: Life after baseball and death, or something along those lines.

- I moved everything but one sentence. The problem with calling it "Life after baseball and death" is he was still involved in baseball after his retirement from playing pro ball. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:37, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. Anyways, good job! 123Writer ^talk 07:48, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

123Writer ^talk 21:28, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jump contract

In July 1891, Baldwin was in Philadelphia, reportedly to convince Denny Lyons and Jack Boyle to jump their contracts and join Pittsburgh. "Lyons Remains Loyal: Big Inducements Offered to the Third Baseman and Catcher Boyle to Jump Contracts". The Boston Globe. July 9, 1891. p. 4. Baldwin denied the allegation, saying there was "no truth" to it. "Baldwin Denies A Rumor". The Pittsburgh Press. July 9, 1891. p. 6. Those two lost the train [1] rumor is false Therapyisgood (talk) 09:48, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 18 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below; however, please note that the possible creation of pages in the future is not a factor in the determination of primary topics. Dekimasuよ! 02:19, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Baldwin (baseball) → Mark Baldwin – Primary topic in a TWODAB situation due to long-term significance. Sahaib (talk) 10:35, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment don't move before his days on the Main age are over, three more days. Is it really worth the trouble of misleading links after such move? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:25, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There are already two Mark Baldwins listed in the Mark Baldwin [disambiguation] page. There may well be more in the future. It would be rank presentism to say that this Mark Baldwin is the supreme defining one, now and henceforth. Minturn (talk) 22:01, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Minturn: the future is irrelevant in determining the primary topic per WP:CRYSTAL as the page can always be moved again in the future. I also think it is unlikely that a new more significant Mark Baldwin will appear as although Baldwin is a common surname, according to this website the name Mark has declined a lot in popularity since its peak in the 1960s. Sahaib (talk) 07:29, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sahaib: From the "Primary Topic" discussion (WP:PT1), with relation to a disambiguation, a topic is the primary topic "if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term", or "if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term." Given that this Mark Baldwin has been dead for nearly a century, while the other one on the disambiguation page is still alive, and that this one isn't a household name (the other one isn't, either), I don't think it's right to say that this one is "much more likely" to be the one a reader is looking for. He may well be the most-searched Mark Baldwin on Wikipedia, but per the guidelines, that's not enough. No diss intended, but the "highly" gets in the way.

Leaning oppose, as I am not seeing a clear primary topic out of the possibilities. BD2412 T 01:05, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. An obviously well-documented career. But long-term significance? I don't see that. Tassedethe (talk) 05:33, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.