Talk:Second Cathedral of Saint Paul (Minnesota)

Second Cathedral of Saint Paul (Minnesota) has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: December 28, 2024. (Reviewed version).

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GA review

GA Review

Passed. IAWW (talk) 14:48, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Second Cathedral of Saint Paul (Minnesota)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Darth Stabro (talk · contribs) 00:08, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: It is a wonderful world (talk · contribs) 00:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This'll be interesting enough :D IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Darth Stabro, review is below. It's nice to see you're giving this diocese's history some great coverage! Spot check was much smoother this time :D IAWW (talk) 00:42, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@It is a wonderful world:, thanks for the review! I believe I've taken care of everything you pointed out. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 19:57, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Darth Stabro you have addressed all my concerns. I think this is now ready for GA. Nice work! IAWW (talk) 14:45, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prose (Criteria 1a, 1b, 4) clock

Lead

Lead needs expansion to summarize the main points of the article IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Expanded a bit more. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 18:40, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Construction

"twenty-two lots" could do with a conversion (MOS:CONVERSION) IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately I'm not sure what that would convert to. I'll have to do some deep digging. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 18:40, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

because of its financial situation: Bit vague, were they in debt or just poor? IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clarified ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 18:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

one building to be a combination church and school: I think "combined" instead of "combination" is more common wording here IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed; changed. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 18:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cathedral

and offices and living quarters for Crétin, his staff, and seminarians: I assume you meant to finish this off with "on the third floor"? IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Correct, changed ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 18:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

summer of 1853 Ravoux: I think Ravoux should be named and linked here, rather than in the paragraph after IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 18:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest linking "Mass" and "confessionals" IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 18:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cretin's School

until necessity required: Bit vague IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Phrasing removed, date clarified ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 18:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This school, while formally known as Cathedral High School, was informally known as Cretin's School: This is the sort of stuff that should be bold in the lead, not in this section. IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

removed ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 18:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"great Chicago fire" is a proper noun that should be capitalised IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 18:52, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

the education of students was moved to a new location: Where? IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 18:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The institution would eventually become Cretin High School: Are you talking about the cathedral building, or the place where the students moved to? This is also quite vague. IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clarified ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 19:09, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources clock

Health/formatting (Criterion 2a) Y

Good enough for GA

Reliability (Criterion 2b) Y

All seem reliable enough

Spot check (Criteria 2b, 2c, 2d) clock

Spot check numbers based on this version.

[1a, 2a]: Y

[1e]: Y

[1i]: Y

[1k]: Y

[1l]: Page 15, not 13 IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 19:11, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1p]: Y

[3a]: Y

[3b]: Y

Copyvio (Criterion 2d) clock

Earwig finds nothing, will check further on spot check.

"The cornerstone was laid in late July or early August" is too close paraphrasing of the source IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 19:12, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Scope (Criteria 3a, 3b) clock

I have a very slight concern that this is lacking some available sourcing, it seems there was a lot of newspapers circulating in Minnesota at the time. Have you looked into these? IAWW (talk) 00:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have a bit, but unfortunately much of what I can find is talking about cathedrals elsewhere; reporting on nationwide and worldwide news was quite popular in the era, it seems. I'll do some more digging but I'm not sure how much I'll be able to find. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 19:24, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stable (Criterion 5) Y

Media Y

Tags (Criterion 6a) Y

Captions (Criterion 6b) Y

Suggestions (not needed for GA promotion)

Inconsistent linking of publishers IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

linked additional publishers ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 19:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Nazareth Hall Preparatory seminary links to the wrong cathedral article I think IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

fixed ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 19:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cathedral of Saint Paul (Minnesota) — the current cathedral: Should be a spaced en-dash, not a spaced em-dash (MOS:LISTDASH) IAWW (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

fixed ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 19:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

The second cathedral of the Diocese of St. Paul

... that despite having built a cathedral (pictured), Bishop Joseph Crétin said his diocese didn't have one?

Source: Nygaard, Robert Christian (1964). The Second Cathedral of St. Paul: History of the Cathedral Parish of St. Paul From 1851 to 1857 (MA thesis). Saint Paul, Minnesota: University of St. Thomas. p. 13. Archived from the original (PDF) on December 11, 2024.

ALT1: ... that Bishop Joseph Crétin believed the cathedral he built (pictured) was so plain that it could hardly be considered a cathedral? Source: Nygaard, Robert Christian (1964). The Second Cathedral of St. Paul: History of the Cathedral Parish of St. Paul From 1851 to 1857 (MA thesis). Saint Paul, Minnesota: University of St. Thomas. p. 13. Archived from the original (PDF) on December 11, 2024.
ALT2: ... that despite having built a cathedral (pictured), Bishop Joseph Crétin wrote "there are about seven Protestant Temples in St. Paul and not yet one Catholic Church"? Source: Nygaard, Robert Christian (1964). The Second Cathedral of St. Paul: History of the Cathedral Parish of St. Paul From 1851 to 1857 (MA thesis). Saint Paul, Minnesota: University of St. Thomas. p. 13. Archived from the original (PDF) on December 11, 2024.
Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Berenice pet cemetery

Improved to Good Article status by Darth Stabro (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 16 past nominations.

~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 17:20, 28 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Review:

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Imzadi 1979 → 05:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]