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Ferri, Enrico (2021). The Myth of Western Civilization: The West as an Ideological Category and a Political Myth. New York: Nova Science. ISBN9781536188684.
Lewis, Martin W.; Wigen, Kären (1997). "The Spatial Constructs of Orient and Occident, East and West". The Myth of Continents: A Critique of Metageography. University of California Press. pp. 47–72. ISBN978-0-520-20743-1.
Allardyce, Gilbert (1982). "The Rise and Fall of the Western Civilization Course". The American Historical Review. 87 (3): 695–725. doi:10.2307/1864161. ISSN0002-8762. JSTOR1864161.
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Western civilization is mostly defined by a mix of Greek-Latin background (philosophy and values) and Christianity. By these, Romania, Greek, etc is definitely a western country. Your edit is kinda bad and unaccurate. Pleas be kind and fix this. 2001:999:404:2A40:8706:AD1E:B6FE:4013 (talk) 09:09, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What are you talking about? He is right! You show maps that Greece isnt in western world! Is it a joke? And all the information above from where started the western culture and the western world says that comes from Greece! So the maps are showing that Greece isnt in the western world? Are you ok??? Alikakii (talk) 21:25, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. I deleted this map before! There was really! I think it was 1 or 2. Now its okk! Sorry for being rude before!! But the maps were wrong! Alikakii (talk) 01:02, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's confusing to spread this conversation across two sections (especially given that this section is from a nearly year-old edit request). I've moved your recent comments to the new section you created below. OhNoitsJamieTalk21:59, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The reference supporting the opening sentence - the definition of the West - is an opinion piece published in the "INTERCOLLEGIATE REVIEW", whatever that publication is. We need an authoritative WP:SECONDARY source for something this important. 14.2.196.234 (talk) 11:59, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Rim sim The article itself states that the definitions around the 'Western world' are murky and fluid, as well as widely contested, and that many scholarly sources oppose defining clear boundaries of 'the West' altogether. I'm aware there's been a discussion about what countries to include and so on, but I think it's time we at least consider removing the map altogether. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 16:04, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Map is provided to give a generalized idea of the Western world like the one in the article English-speaking world. That being said I understand this is a politically charged article and considerations can be made for removing it. Let's see what other editors have to say about this. Rim sim (talk) 07:06, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The map in English-speaking world is very different to this article because it can point to something that is concrete - whether the majority of people in a country speak English. In this article, the map does not do that. There is no 'official' Western world and scholars agree that there is no set definition of the term. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 12:29, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is more similar to the case of the Arab world, which too has no globally accepted definition. As the concept of the Western world is more abstract, one can argue that a map is better needed. The write up under the map may be improved for clarity or a better map may be placed. Rim sim (talk) 15:15, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You said here that the RfC supported inclusion of Latin America. I agree. And that's why I had restored a map which includes Latin America. But why have you restored a map which has Russia? RfC did not agree with that. Ratnahastin(talk)01:22, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Historian Peter Stearns in his book Western Civilization in World History addressed the issue of including Russia/eastern Europe in the West as thus: But even today, and certainly in modern history more generally, the question of where to locate the West’s eastern boundary – and the question of what criteria to use in trying to define it – is not an easy one. We have to allow for a certain degree of sloppiness, and for the possibility of both fluctuation and debate. The inclusion of Latin America though is not as much disputed as is the case with Russia, but then Latin America and Russia (incl parts of eastern Europe) are the only regions (apart from Western Europe, Northern America, Aus-NZ) that are considered for inclusion in boundaries of the West, so including both Latin America & Russia in the map as contested territories makes it better. Rim sim (talk) 10:15, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is not really about what reliable sources say but what the RfC consensus was. I think you should review the RfC discussion. Many users supported the inclusion of Latin America but any support for inclusion of Russia was almost missing. Ratnahastin(talk)10:35, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry but you write about western world and that western culture comes from Greece and you show maps that dont include Greece to the western world? You know that western civilization started in Greece? How are you showing maps that dont include Greece and include some other random eastern countries? Is it a joke? Please remove the maps! Really is funny that you write that Greece created western civilization and introduced the western culture to the world and then to show these maps that Greece isnt there! All the official sites have Greece as western so you are wrong!Alikakii (talk) 21:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello again! Sorry but because no one is answering me on my requests and on the western world page and on the western culture page please change these maps with other correct maps that shows Greece as an western country. Today i saw the same maps again! But in the talk pages no one is answering me when i ask something! Check all the official sites have maps that shows Greece as western and only here in wikipedia you have it wrong! And in the 2 pages western world and western culture! Alikakii (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The map on the page has Greece color-coded as "countries and territories whose inclusion as constituents of the Western world is contested" and is based a source descripted in the image description here. To change that map, we'd need (1) a consensus here to change the map and (2) a new map based on a reliable source's definition of the "Western World." Also note this comment in the "Modern Definitions" section: Additionally, Latin American and Orthodox European worlds are sometimes either a sub-civilization within Western civilization or separately considered "akin" to the West. In the map accompanying that section, Greece is part of the "Orthodox world." OhNoitsJamieTalk21:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So you are saying that some other random eastern countries that shows this map are more western world than Greece who created the western world! So you are wrong here you are talking me about religion! So the whole article along with the title is wrong! If you want to seperate countries for their religion you should write an article about religions not western world! How western world has anything to do with religions?? Alikakii (talk) 22:14, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Greece is the birthplace of western civilization! You question and the facts here and all the things that are written on the history books? Alikakii (talk) 22:20, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This map probably show how the countries are seperated according to the religions. Like you said orthodox and the other! This map shouldnt be here at all! Make another article to put it! You put wrong maps to wring articles! Alikakii (talk) 22:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And you took this map as an example that this map is about the religion more and not all the other maps that there are on google or official sites that shows Greece as western country and shows the actual western countries! Alikakii (talk) 22:36, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please take the time to read the entire article; this article is about the idea of the "Western world" throughout history, how it's evolved over time and how there are a variety of approaches to it, especially in modern contexts. OhNoitsJamieTalk01:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
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Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Where does it say that Romania and Greece aren't western countries? Liu1126 (talk) 12:14, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
