User talk:Candidhistorian

April 2022

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
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Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. HistoryofIran (talk) 16:51, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran I didnt understand what I wrote to be discussed or disruptive? You can't argue that there is no Kurdish people in medieaval times. Read the article I showed, the author clearly proves with so many examples i. e. dlrect citations from primary sources. It is an academic and peer reviewed piece. Candidhistorian (talk) 17:05, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not arguing it, the vast majority of scholarly sources are. How is it peer reviewed? Who is Boris James? And why is it sponsored by the Kurdish regional government? Moreover, this is your own personal addition; "It seems that the denialist and manipulative rhetoric of colonialist governments like Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria had leaked into the academic literature." --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:07, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran check the guy's name in google to see his publications. You cannot accuse respectable people of taking bribery just because they write the most natural, normal and obvious facts. It was already written in the article that the Shabankaras were Kurdish according to ALL sources. However you insist that "Kurd does not mean Kurd"! Come on try to be serious. You already brainwash the children in Iran in Turkey in Azerbaijan with such disrespectful denialist aggressive bulshit in offical textbooks and compulsory schools. Let the English version of Wikipedia stay clean please. This should not be that difficult for you. Candidhistorian (talk) 17:22, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I asked you a few simple questions. Instead of answering them, you proceeded to start ranting, nice one. Continue this pattern and you will be reported to WP:ANI. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:32, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to blank out or remove portions of page content, templates, or other materials from Wikipedia without adequate explanation, as you did at Shabankara, you may be blocked from editing. >>> Ingenuity.talk(); 17:26, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran read the explanation above how can I be more explicit? I corrected the wrong and ideological claims with a newer and open academic source. You did not accept it. So I just removed the unnecessary and offensive two sentences from the article. What is wrong with this? You don't have to say that "Kurd does not mean Kurd" in the article on the Shabankaras. If you want to believe that Kurd means something else please do it in your private life. Is it normal if I argue that the English is not a people or ethnicity it just means seamen of unknown origins? Candidhistorian (talk) 17:31, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran also check those very sources it is obvious that even they do not support the denialist sentence in the article text. Pott talks about late antiquity but the Shabankaras well into the Islamic phase moreover he says either Kurdish or Daylamite so he does not rejects that they were Kurdish. The current article text distorts his lines. And read the article whose link I provided. It is very clear that Kurd means Kurd in medieval Arab sources, he gives many direct citations and it is self-critical he says he once did the same mistake but later corrected himself and the literature. Candidhistorian (talk) 17:38, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran it is not a question. You said why is the scholar sponsored by the Kurdish government? I don't have such an information and I don't think that you really know that he is? How do you know that he get money from Kurdistan? Or did he get money for this article? How can I reply such an accusation or libel on behalf of that person? Candidhistorian (talk) 17:43, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran and @Ingenuity Boris James is not Kurdish he is not waged by the Kurdish government or he does not work in Kurdistan. He is a European academic and he is prestigious his book has been translated other languages than English. This article is a conference paper and was read in front of an international academic audience of scholars. Moreover let everything aside, the Shabankaras are not extinct, they continue to live in the same geography with the same name and they are still Kurdish as medieval primary sources mention them. Why is this historical fact makes you so angry? I cannot understand your reaction and aggression. Candidhistorian (talk) 17:53, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fushenjan

This topic is controversial. I would like to show my appreciation for the last edit that you have made here. I have put two tags on the article so that other editors can comment on this matter. Best of my regards to you, Ehsanbasafa (talk) 17:00, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Ehsanbasafa Dear Ehsan Basafa thank you so much. Haji Bektash's place of birth is really controversial. His hagiography states that the grandfather of his grandfather came to Khorasan and ruled that country. Even if we assume that his descendants succeeded him we don't know their seat. They were ruling Khorasan but where exactly was their mansion is not clear. Bektash's mother Hatem was from Nishapur according to the same book. However, she should have moved to her husband's house after the wedding. Her husband Ibrahim, the father of Bektash was not living in Nishapur because he first saw Hatem by chance while returning from a game from a distant forest. They searched to find who is the girl and where she lives then they learned that she is from Nishapur. So the hagiography implies that these guys were living in another town. But Fushenjan is never mentioned either in the hagiography of Bektash or tens of other hagiographies of relevant marabouts or thousands of Bektashi poems. this toponym is completely new and unheard of. I have no idea why and how you relate this place with Haji Bektash.

The controversy is different: we think that Bektash was not from Khorasan or Nishapur. After the victory of Tamerlane in Ankara in 1402, the Ottomans collapsed. The Ottoman Sultan fell hostage to Timur and the Asia Minor became subjected to the cultural hegemony of the Timurids. So a turkification happened, central asian cities flourished, many young Ottomans went to Bukhara and other Timurid centers for education. Naqshbabdism spreaded to the Asia Minor. this is the general atmosphere of the 15th century Ottoman realm. The hagiography was written in this atmosphere and the people of the era tended to include some central asian references, figures personalities place names etc to get legitimacy and prestige. And also they include Sunni Islamic elements at least in their written work. So, to sum up, we question the Khorasan background, Nishapur seems to not being Bektash's home town even according to the hagiography and Fushenjan has never been mentioned anywhere. Candidhistorian (talk) 17:46, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]