User talk:Yom/Archive5

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Al-Qaeda

I updated the al Qaeda talk page and hope this clears things up a bit about myself. Thank you for your contributions.

Sincerest Regards, -- That Guy, From That Show! 03:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ethiopian dynasty name

Hi Yom, I noticed you were recently changing Solomonid to Solomonic. I had been adding Ethiopian Emperors to the new category, but I'll hold off further edits for this. Please note that Britannica Online still uses Solomonid, but personally I know nothing about the naming convention. --Zigger «º» 03:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Continue adding it to the category. I'm going to finish up the spelling changes, and then propose the move at categories for renaming. It's easier for you to add the categories and then I have it renamed, than to wait until the rename and add them, when you might miss some that you would have gotten earlier. I noticed your recent edits on Ethiopia-related articles. You may be interested in WikiProject Ethiopia. Thanks for your contributions! — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's no need to wait for me to finish the categorisation, as there's no guarantee that I'll do them all anyway. My contributions to Ethiopia are more random cleanup than substantial. I saw that the Solomonic dynasty article now lacks any mention of Solomonid. Can you add the alternative name, and why Solomonic is now preferred? While Encarta online also uses Solomonid, Google Scholar has more references for "solomonic ethiopia" than "solomonid". Has this changed over time, or is it a regional variation, or is it an academic convention? --Zigger «º» 15:56, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Demographics of Ethiopia

Yom why did u take out what i included in the demographics? I got it from a link from the caucasoid article. http://www.sitesled.com/members/racialreality/ethiopians.html Unless you prove to me that this is wrong, i will put this back up with every right that i have. I was alsom meaning to ask you (since u know so much about Ethiopians), do you think the Amhara, Tigre have pure semitic blood? Can you be 100% negroid and be semitic at the same time? Please reply on my userpage. Cluckbang 21:52, 23 July 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Replied on his talk page on the 23rd — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 22:37, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

i'm under the impression that someone CAN be 100% negroid and 100% semitic at the same time. but i've still got a lot to learn about semitic peoples... Gringo300 06:23, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They can, since "Semitic" is today simply a linguistic classification. "Negroid," furthermore, is often simply equated with "Black," and its scientific anthropologic usage is increasingly being avoided (except perhaps by Criminal Forensic Scientists). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 04:50, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Solomonic Dynasty

A while ago i asked you whether u believe the claims that the solomonic dynasty made, and you said no. Can you please give me your reason? I myself doubt it too. Cluckbang 00:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

The reason is that there are no sources contemporary to the account. The bible is the only source relatively close to the time period, and it makes no mention of a child of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. Moreover, Sheba was probably referring to Yemen. The fact that the tabot (Ark of the Covenant) was stolen would also have been a huge event and noted by the Bible had it actually happened. Note that the earliest extant Ethiopian source, the Kebra Nagast, is a 13th century work. It was recopied from an Arabic original during this time, which was possibly copied from an earlier Coptic version according to your links, but it's still very far removed from the time period being considered. It's the same reason why the early legendary Greek kings are not considered to be factual - they're too far removed in time to be accurate. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:05, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes that is true Yom, however, there are many things that have not been mentioned in the bible, for example in the book of Enoch (which is in Ethiopia), while many sources say it should have been. Was there any genetic evidence that tested any of the present Emperors of Ethiopia? By the way, doesnt Sheba also refer to Ethiopia (Northern Ethiopia, Eritrea)? Cluckbang 17:50, 24 July 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Sheba probably referred to the Sabaeans. "sh" and "s" switched a lot in Semitic languages. Whenever it was "sh" originally, Hebrew kept it (hence Sheba), while Arabic, Sabaean (and other Old South Arabian languages), and Ge'ez made it "s." Hence Saba' (as opposed to Sheba). Genetically, Ethiopian Jews were found to be the same as other Ethiopians, but I'm not sure about any test on Emperors. If the Beta Israel wouldn't have the marker, then the Emperors probably wouldn't. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 22:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-Christian Era

Before Ezana came from Syria to convert Ethiopia to chrisitianity, there is no evidence, in any books whatsoever of a Jewish Ethiopia. So how is it that the Felasha claim to be descendants of Jews? What evidence/proof do they have?

They only have tradition and the fact that Old Testament influences in Ethiopian Christianity is so prominent. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 22:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New article

Hi there Yom, i wanted to know if maybe, you could write an article on the Turkish Abyssinian wars, so that today's world knows about what happened in the past

I'm planning on it. I wrote a paper in my Ottoman history class on it this year, but I have to get access to it first (I don't want to rewrite an article from scratch that I've already basically done). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 22:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

An Inquiry

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/kn/kn000-1.htm

Due to you ever increasing knowledge of Ethiopia, does this source of Ethiopian history seem factual and ideal to you.

Just a Thought

Hey Yom, you know the story of the Kebra Negest and how it is most likely fake because it doesnt corelate with the biblical life of the Queen of Sheba because they say she lived one thousand years after the biblical queen of sheba. However, i was thinking since there was south arabian migration into ethiopia, and also since it is a fact that her real home was Yemen, the story came from Yemen, which basically proves that the South Arabians had a dominant role in Ethiopia and that they were here for a long time. So, although the story was a bit altered, perhaps some parts of it may be true Cluckbang 17:16, 30 July 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

AID

You helped choose this week's WP:AID winner

Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive.
This week Africa was selected to be improved to featured article status.
Hope you can help.

Mo'a

Yes, positive, Mo'a is the only spelling you will ever find on His Majesty's correspondence etc.. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 16:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As long as you are talking about Haile Selassie's titles, the only spelling he ever used is ሞዓ አንበሳ ዘእምነገደ ይሁዳ ... -- ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 16:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Eritrean-Ethiopian War

Hi Yom! It appears that the anon editor has backed down for the moment, so maybe my intervention is not needed at the moment. I'm not planning on being online much longer (I have to get up early to catch a plane tomorrow to Wikimania) so if this person returns & continues to be disruptive, post a note over at WP:AN for help. -- llywrch 04:13, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thank you for fixing my user page, i appreciate it. I also wanted to ask you, i think im right when i spelt Akule Guzai, even if u sound it out. The new one you put didnt make it sound better in my opinion. Did you have sources to make you change it, or did you just change it just yourself? Cluckbang 13:41, 3 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

You're welcome. I'm certain of the spelling of the province. Usually it's spelled "Akkele Guzai," actually, but I used "y" because "i" would represent እ or ኢ in Tigrinya, when the word ends with ይ. "Akkele Guzay" is the correct transliteration. The word in Tigrinya is አከለ ጉዛይ, which is transliterated "Akkele Guzay," or, using the older transliteration systems, "Akäklä Guzay." The Encyclopaedia Aethiopica also spells it "Akäklä Guzay," but we're using a newer system, which is why I used "e" instead of "ä." — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 17:54, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ethiopian Wolf Map

Actually, I'm not the creator of the map in question — I only made the map which it's based on (the map of Africa with the borders marked). It was Emuzesto who marked the wolf range — I'm afraid I don't know anything about the subject myself. -- Vardion 06:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey man..

This is Teth22 dropping by to holla. Anyways, I've seen you comment several times that the (native) Ancient Egyptians looked like the modern day Sudanese Beja, which specific study, or studies stated this, or did you simply infer this. Get back to me. Peace. Teth22 17:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity

Hello there Yom. I just wanted to reply to one of the comments you made about how it is impossible to tell between Ethiopians, Oromos, Somalians and Eritrean. I believe this is not true. I can most definitely tell. Especially with Somalians, their head and face shape is most definitely much different than Ethiopians. I agree with you that the Amhara and Tigray are very similar. However, the Oromo, people do look different than Ethiopians, in General. Im not saying all the populations, im just saying in "General" Cluckbang 12:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Theory is widely accepted today

There is evidence to suggest that the Axumite state arose as a result of interaction between migrants from Southwest Arabia, who arrived in the Ethiopian Highlands in the first Millennium B.C., and the peoples indigenous to the area.

http://www.ethioworld.com/History/summary.htm

One of the most significant influences on the formation and evolution of culture in northern Ethiopia consisted of migrants from Southwest Arabia. They arrived during the first millennium B.C. and brought Semitic speech, writing, and a distinctive stone-building tradition to northern Ethiopia. They seem to have contributed directly to the rise of the Aksumite kingdom, a trading state that prospered in the first centuries of the Christian era and that united the shores of the southern Red Sea commercially and at times politically. It was an Aksumite king who accepted Christianity in the mid-fourth century, a religion that the Aksumites bequeathed to their successors along with their concept of an empire-state under centralized rulership.

During the first millennium B.C. and possibly even earlier, various Semitic-speaking groups from Southwest Arabia began to cross the Red Sea and settle along the coast and in the nearby highlands. These migrants brought with them their Semitic speech (Sabaean and perhaps others) and script (Old Epigraphic South Arabic) and monumental stone architecture. A fusion of the newcomers with the indigenous inhabitants produced a culture known as pre-Aksumite. The factors that motivated this settlement in the area are not known, but to judge from subsequent history, commercial activity must have figured strongly. The port city of Adulis, near modern-day Mitsiwa, was a major regional entrepôt and probably the main gateway to the interior for new arrivals from Southwest Arabia. Archaeological evidence indicates that by the beginning of the Christian era this pre-Aksumite culture had developed western and eastern regional variants. The former, which included the region of Aksum, was probably the polity or series of polities that became the Aksumite state http://reference.allrefer.com/country-guide-study/ethiopia/ethiopia11.html Also Yom, is the term Habeshistan still used today when referring to Ethiopia? Cluckbang 16:34, 5 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Semitic

Please notice what has happened at the article Semitic. We have a new editor who insists that no Ethiopian language can ever be in the Semitic family, and is repeatedly blanking them out of that article and Semitic languages, etc.! Where do you start with someone like that! ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 04:08, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yom

Yom, my habesha friend, there is something you need to know. You are a very knowledgable person who knows very much about Ethiopian history from the many articles you've created. However, regarding the Semitic migration, you need to consider all the theories being put out there, you cant put one over another. Its like the Azerbaijani people, there are many theories surrounding where they came from. However, if you look at the article, it mentions all the theories, and puts equal emphasis on each one of them. However, you just completely make the semitic migration look as though it is a fallacy. Although I respect all your works on wikipedia, this i dont agree with. http://www.hmml.org/exhibits/EthiopiaExhibit/Portuguese2.html Cluckbang 13:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Cluckbang, you are misunderstanding the evidence it seems. I never said that there were no Sabaeans in Ethiopia, there was some Sabaean migration in the time period in question, but not to the degree that it was assumed in the past. Remember that in these times, the racist idea that an African country couldn't have a native civilization without outside influence was prevalent. What I'm writing it not theory but instead the most common modern interpretation. It is a fact that there were some Sabaeans in D`mt, we know them from some inscriptions in the Sabaean language referring to places in Yemen like MRYB (Marib). However, we also know for a fact that the inscriptions of the D`mt rulers were in proto-Ethiopic (i.e. proto-Ge'ez or proto-EthioSemitic). Moreover, we know for a fact that Ge'ez is not descended from Old South Arabian as was previously assumed. Furthermore, genetic data shows that recent historic migration from the Middle East is minimal (see Semino et al. 2004). With all these facts, the common modern interpretation is that the migration was minimal in terms of population effect, though the D`mt monarchy was certainly Sabaean influenced (the title mukarrib, the worship of some Sabaean deities like Dāt Ḥimyam and Dāt Ba`adan, and Almaqah). Nevertheless, the common modern view among scholars should be presented with preference over the common uneducated (and more historical) view, a view that should only be mentioned when necessary. For instance, in the Ethiopia and Eritrea articles, there's no reason to get into that kind of depth, though it may be warranted in the Kingdom of Aksum, D`mt, and History of Ethiopia, and History of Eritrea articles. Please talk about your changes on the talk pages of the respective articles. I am going to revert for now, but if you want to discuss the material included, it should really be done on the specific pages I mentioned above, not the general pages like Ethiopia and Eritrea. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 16:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

YOm i understand that i am being repetitive and that we have discussed this many times. However if (according to what you said), Sabean migration was minor, why is it that Ethiopia was heavily influenced by the Sabeans, even the Kebra Negest came from Yemen. Why is it that the culture of Yemen/Saba became so dominant if migration was only minor for only a few decades. A great example of this is Queen Sheba who is belived to have most likely been in Yemen. And yet! She has a prominent role is founding the Ethiopian empire. Everything you have said makes a lot of sense. Its only this that I have problems believing. Please bear with Yom. I am not doing this to annoy you. Take Care Cluckbang 21:07, 7 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Ethiopia wasn't "heavily" influenced by the Sabaeans. There was substantial Sabaean influence during the time of the D`mt polity only, and that was not due to migration (actual Sabaean presence is attested only at a few sites - Met'era, Yeha, and just a couple other cities. The reason for Sabaean influence is because they were the dominant sea power on the Red Sea trade routes at that time. The Kibre Negest is not from Yemen. It may have been translated from Arabic, which in turn may have been translated from Coptic, but nothing is certain, and for the time being, it can be seen only as an original Ethiopian composition. The centrality of Ethiopia makes that pretty certain, actually, as well as the fact that there is evidence of the myth existing before the 13th century which is the time period that the current earliest copy is from (give me some time to find the source I read it in). The Queen of Sheba is believed today to have been from Yemen, but in Ethiopian tradition she was from Aksum. Still, even with an earlier date for the synthesis of this national Epic, there is a clear end of Sabaean influence in the 5th/4th c. BC (transition from D`mt period to proto-Aksumite period), where earlier pre-Sabaean cultural traits are manifested (e.g. the ancient practice of using stelae for marking the dead, dating back to the 3rd millenium BC). For Sabaean influence to manifest later in late antiquity and Medieval times is improbable. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 02:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You have a good point. However that doesnt give you any right to change what I put in there. What do you think gives you the right to take out what I put in? What I put was fair to both you and me. I even said "the theory that is more accepted to today" for you. I dont see anything wrong with what i put in. I am reverting to what i put in before. If you would like to change it, discuss it on the talk page. Please dont immediately just delete before discussing. By the way, i dont see anything wrong with Megalommatis. Just because you dont like him, does that make him a historian not to put reference to? I dont think so. He is a reknown historian who has much more experience than you think Cluckbang 18:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

As I said before, I have no objection to talking about Sabaeans in all the individual articles. It is very appropriate and would in fact be pretty inappropriate not to discuss it on thos pages. I do not, however, believe that it should be discussed on the main pages of Ethiopia and Eritrea. I removed all references to the indigenous and Sabaean views, leaving the discussion for the specific articles, but Codex reverted me. I blieve that not including either view is the best way to settle this, since we obviously won't be convinced of each other's views. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 04:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ennerea/Innarya/etc.

Hi Yom, I just noticed that we mention this kingdom in three different places with a different spelling each time in the article Monarchies of Ethiopia. Which form of this name do you think we should standardize on? -- llywrch 04:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Using the transliteration system we agreed upon it would be Innarya, which is what I'm trying to use throughout for now. Limmu-Ennarya should also be at Limmu Innarya, but I'm knee-deep in categorizing the Gibe states and other Southwestern kingdoms right now. On a tangential note, check out Ashama ibn Abjar, there's another article at al-Negashi covering the same subject. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 04:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism

Im so sorry man, that was my friend. Please dont block me from wikipedia. Plus he got all the information from a book, and you have to admit, it was pretty funny! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.248.80.83 (talk • contribs) 17:39, August 9, 2006 (UTC)

Etiops

Why is it that uyou havent mentioned etiops the one who is mentioned in Ethiopian legends about being one of the unmentioned sons of Ham? Please reply on my talkpage from now on. I find it tiring to have to check your talkpage when looking for a reply Cluckbang 13:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Re: Hosaena

So are you saying that it should be spelled "Hosa'ina" or "Hosaina"? I picked "Hosaena" only because I thought it was more familiar (for admittedly dubious values of "more familiar"). If you don't mind, I'll probably wait until I have an article written for the town before I change it back -- I was just trying to point all of the links to one namespace for convenience. -- llywrch 20:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

RE: Your edit to Unas

As far as I am concerned, you vandalized my article on wenis. It took me an hour to write, and you overran it with an article about an Egyptian king nobody knows about. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.248.80.83 (talk • contribs) 16:22, August 11, 2006 (UTC)

Please. "Wenis" is not a valid encyclopedia article unless it is a redirect to the valid Egyptian king Unas. That you don't know about him doesn't mean that he's a nobody, and while he's certainly notable and encyclopedic (as well as verifiable), your "wenis" joke is neither. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 20:03, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

History. great job

Hello there Yom. I just wanted to congratulate you on the new changes youve made to the history. It is GREAT. It is accurate and 100% fair on both sides of the theories. I will make sure that no one changes this. By the way, dont forget to add this change to the Ethiopian history, and the Eritrean, and Eritrean history articles. Cluckbang 01:15, 12 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

I think I gave undue weight to the last hypothesis. Megalommatis is literally the only historian with that view, and he's very controversial with some very "out-there" views. I will incorporate this version (without Megalommatis) to the Eritrea article. The specific history articles, however, require a more detailed explanation, in which I'll include a casual mention of non-mainstream views like those of Megalommatis. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 01:34, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest Yom, i liked the one you put before. Although you didnt make a lot of changes to it, and even though Megalommatis is a kind of weird historian, i think it is still fair to put him there. Yom, please revert to what you put first. And also you took out the part that said "a small minority even believe ethiopia is a sabean transplant in africa". Cluckbang 14:27, 12 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Black Stone, Kaaba

Yom, do you think you could monitor those articles and keep out the Black Stone material? Bookworm keeps inserting it.

I'm starting to understand a little, after following one of the links he/she gave, to a Hindutva site. I think that there might actually be more than one Hindutavadi who believes this, but I don't think it's a mainstream belief even for the RSS or BJP. It strikes me as an attempt to generalize the Babri Mosque thing ... we tore down the mosque that was built over a temple, and we can do the same thing to the Kaaba.

There's something kinda awesome in such fuggheadedness. Zora 01:12, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why?

Yom i just wanted to ask you why did you take out this little harmless sentence that doesnt make a big difference

a very small minority even views the kingdom as wholly Sabaean and Ethiopians as the descendents of ancient Sabaean immigrants.[4]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. And the most surprising thing about it is that you wrote it. So why did you take it out Yom, why? You wrote it so well so that it was fair to all of us and we all agreed on it. Then all of a sudden you take out a major part of it. Readers on wikipedia deserve to know that some historians (including Megalommatis) believe that Ethiopia has some citizens who are descendants of Sabeans. The reader must know this. By the way, you mentioned a VERY SMALL minority, so what makes you think the reader will believe this? However, you should still include it. I still dont think you should take out Megalommatis out of the article. megalommatis may be off on some theories. However, his works are still published, because they think that he deserves to express his point of view. Did you realized that when you were editing, you were doing it in your favour most of the time except for recently, when you made it in the favour of me also. But now you are going back to your old ways of doing it in favour of yourself. By the way, I am sure that Megalommatis is not the only historian with that view. Cluckbang 13:24, 13 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Yom, could you please notify me when you add the Ethiopian-Ottoman war article? Thanks Cluckbang 18:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Straw poll on Giza Sphinx

I note your comments, but I don't see a vote. Is that what you intended? deeceevoice 09:20, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. It's late. Saw it. Thanks. :) deeceevoice 09:22, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yom, I believe we can prove the fact that the ethiopia that the bible is talking about is the present ethiopia!! The reason being is that it refers to the Gihon river or lake. The Gihon lake as you know is in present ethiopia. Thus proving the fact that ethiopia today has the same meaning as the ethiopia yesterday. I was thinking if me and you could start an article on this river and how it shows ethiopia's significance in the bible. Also I wrote one sentence in the religion section of the article. So maybe you could expand it and write a paragraph on it. Take care. Chaw Cluckbang 15:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckang[reply]

Gihon! How come theres no mention of it?!?!

Yom, I believe we can prove the fact that the ethiopia that the bible is talking about is the present ethiopia!! The reason being is that it refers to the Gihon river or lake. The Gihon lake as you know is in present ethiopia. Thus proving the fact that ethiopia today has the same meaning as the ethiopia yesterday. I was thinking if me and you could start an article on this river and how it shows ethiopia's significance in the bible. Also I wrote one sentence in the religion section of the article. So maybe you could expand it and write a paragraph on it. Also here are some sources more legible than Megalommatis. Take care. Chaw

http://www.ethiopians.com/bayeyima.html, http://ethiopianhistory.com/articles.php?id=Ge'ez, http://www.kidusmichael.com/EthiopianChristianity.htm http://www.selamta.net/history.htm

Are you trying to give me evidence of Gihon's existence in Ethiopia or convince me of the Sabaean theory? I don't understand what those links are supposed to show me, as we've gone over the issue too many times to count. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 04:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well as I recount, you said that you wanted me to show you some more legible sources other than Megalommatis, so you have them, and yet you dont seem to want to read them so, what am i to do

Re: Afar Sultanate

Hi Yom! First off, I agree with you that the article should be renamed: "Aussa Sultanate" (or "Awsa Sultanate") is the name that I have seen used to refer to this polity in the literature. I thought about moving the article, but I had made enough changes for the moment & decided to see what the response to my work would be.

As for your other comments, from what I've read, there were two different polities based on Awsa. The first was an outgrowth of the original Adal state: it was founded by a descendant of Ahmad Gragn, the Imam Umar-Din bin Adam, who met the threat of constant Oromo raids by moving his capital to remote Awsa -- which proved a mistake in 2 different ways. The first was that it wasn't far enough from the Oromo to discourage their raids (Awsa was attacked several times by the Wollo Oromo); & the second was that it was too far from both Harar & Zeila to keep control over them. I haven't yet read Pankhurst's book, but from what you excerpted it seems to be correct.

The last secure date for the Imamate is 1672 -- a fact which I took from J. Spencer Trimingham, who added that this was the year the last Imam of Awsa took the throne & met an obscure end. However, Mordechai Abir quotes a local Afar source who lists a few more Imams after him, which would push the date of the end of the Imamate to perhaps as late as 1700.

The Sultanate was an entirely new creation, an Afar dynasty & state whereas the Imamate was a Harari dynasty & state. Abir's source provides the length of the reigns of the first several Sultans, which allows us to date its official creation to 1734/1735. No matter how we juggle the numbers, there is clearly a gap a generation long between the two states. My guess is that when the feeble Imamate of Awsa collapsed, the region lasped into anarchy because none of the local Afar groups was powerful enough to assert control: for a generation tribalism ruled the lower Awash river valley, perhaps acknowledging some token overlordship to Harar or Zeila.

As for control of Assab, I suspect that the earlier Imamate did control it -- at least in the first decades of the 17th century when Jeromino Lobo landed at Beylul. As for the later Sultanate, although Trimingham states that the Afar acknowledged Awsa as the primary monarch of their people, it was largely a token submission -- he did not expect his orders to be obeyed by the other Afar Imams & Sultans. I remember reading -- I haven't been able to find my notes on this -- that the Italians bought Assab from the local Sultan. Awsa was never involved in this transaction. (But until I can find my notes -- or the book I read this in -- I won't be adding this point to the article, just removing what I felt was wrong from it.)

BTW, although I accumulated enough material to write the article many months ago, I delayed in doing so because I was not clear just where "Awsa" is located. However, I found a few clues that point to a possible identification of "Awsa" with Asayita, the current capital of the Afar Region -- & then found that someone beat me to the creation of this article. -- llywrch 16:34, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Anon SBB editor

I blocked him for 30 minutes, & hope he either posts on the Talk page or goes away. Sigh. This is getting monotonous. -- llywrch 20:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Rating

I guess great minds think alike. ;-) As for cities/towns/villages, I've listed a few obivous candidates as "Top", but otherwise if I think it is a city (e.g. Bahir Dar, Dire Dawa), I'm rating it "High", towns (unless of significant historical importance) as "Mid", & villages (unlessagain of significant historical importance) as low -- does that work for you? BTW, I didn't know we could find any information on any of the kebeles of Ethiopia. -- llywrch 20:05, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was just pondering the issue of the importance of Emperors. My first instinct is that we should rate them in proportion: only a very few are "Top", about twice as many are "High", twice again are "Mid" & the rest "Low". After all, genius is rare & so are the important rulers. However, the fact that the Emperor of Ethiopia is a notable person -- he is the subject of many of the Royal Chronicles & had power over his subjects, then even the most obscure ruler should be of some importance.

I'm conflicted about this issue. Some choices are easy, such as almost all of the Emperors of the Zemene Mesafint are properly "Low" importance (short histories of Ethiopia omit almost all mention of them). Some pose more of a challenge, for example is Lebna Dengel properly "Mid" or "High" (I can think of arguments for both choices). Maybe the best thing to do is to just start grading them, & if someone disagrees to bring it up on the Talk pages. Will anyone get angry if we grade an Emperor as "Low" before the Zemene Mesafint, like for example Za Dengel? -- llywrch 23:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just saw you question about the Kings of Axum: I would rate those as "Low" for whom we have almost no information. For example, Zoskales, who is only mentioned in one source; we don't even know if he was a king of Axum, let alone the first. -- llywrch 23:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't describe my comments as "insight". They're just my opinions. -- llywrch 01:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Red Sea

If you read carefully the Gulf of Aden is technically referred as part of the Red Sea, and there is no need of you deleting Somali translation {as Djibouti borders the Red Sea and has a majority of Somali speakers} only for the reasion that the translation in Amharic is not there. I sugguest you think about what you are doing before you actually do it. Get you facts right!!! Abdullah Geelah 18:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I ve been to that country twice and I ve seen a majority speaking Somali because Djibouti is part of what is known as Greater Somalia and it use to border the Red Sea, and you might as well write the Amharic traslation as it use to boder the Red Sea so therefore write both traslations.

Languages

Hi There! Can you translate my name in what language you know please, and then post it Here. I would be very grateful if you do (if you know another language apart from English and the ones on my userpage please feel free to post it on) P.S. all th translations are in alpahbetical order so when you add one please put it in alpahbetical order according to the language. Thanks!!! Abdullah Geelah 18:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Name

I m just new with archiving business apparently some one told me that instead of deleting messages archive them so from that day on I archive by messages. Anyways my first name is Arabic and second name comes from the Somali/Amharic name Gailah/Geelah meaning both joy and the camel herder or something like that. I prefer it if you write my name in both scrpts/languages and then update it.

Your translations was really helpful but it came up as sqaures why is that?

Template:Somaliland and Somalia

Can you wikify that template above, the flags seem to be wondering of the box Abdullah Geelah 11:52, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Shivaling

I'm not saying that the actual stone is a shivaling, I'm saying there is a lingam inside the stone. Pre-Islamic Arabians were pagans and housed their idols in the Kaaba. Since there were probably a good amount of Indians trading at the time, its entirely possible that a lingam was placed with the pagan idols.Bakaman _Bakatalk 13:40, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ge'ez

hi Yom -- the {{lang}} template helps Microsoft browsers choose the right font. This is just a workaround around the world's largest software company being unable to fix their software. If there is no Ge'ez font installed on the system, no amount of wikisyntax will succeed in displaying Ge'ez text: using the template means that it will be very likely that if there is a Ge'ez font on the system, it will be displayed. Regarding your other points, I will not be around as much as I used to over the next few days. It's true that we dropped the question of S and W Semitic glyph cognates. It remains on my todo list, but I have no sources handy, and I do not know when I will be able to seriously research it. regards, dab (ᛏ) 08:51, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Free will

You nominated the article Free will for a FAR. Several peopl have worked to address your specific and general concerns and would like your feedback on the current revision. Thanks. --Francesco Franco aka Lacatosias 12:53, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please be polite enough to respond to your messages. I know that are on-line, I know that you have been on-kine even today. I suspect that you know that I know this. What's the problem? There are now close to 100 references in that article. It is well-organized and well-writen, comprehensive, neutral. Hmmm???--Francesco Franco aka Lacatosias 13:02, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Haile Gebrselassie

Hi Yom,

You reversed the information regarding Haile's record in Alphen aan de Rijn. The previous edit however was correct. This is a recent event and widely reported in the press. See news.google.com

BTW impressive amount of info on Ethiopia. kudos

greetings,

Raindeer

Arabs

I have read yourcomment to me on Arabs:

"rv - Arab league, please see talk page, and talk pages of images, they are inaccurate. Once we get a more accurate image, we will use it.) "

what seems to be "inacurate"??

thank you..

i was supprised from your quick response, but also suprised of how agressive it was... but perhaps this is because it was my own "piece of art"..

After re-checking your Notes, i will include the following:

Pushing the Boundries of South Sudan more to the north, using your included map as a trusted referance.

new included areas will include the following states of Sudan:

Warab, Shamal Bahr Al Ghazal, Gharb Bahr Al Ghazal, Al Wahda, north Junqali, and A'ali An Nil.

Areas in Egypt's red sea coast to sudan and furthur south of Sudan's Red Sea Province has a predominant Arab Population.

The Languages spoken in these areas are not majorities.

Adding Somalia,Djibouti Chad and Eritrea as countires with Small Arab Influence, perhaps the reason of why i included Somalia was there Arab Membership in the League.

As for Mauritania, the Majority of Mauritanians area Arabs, the minorities of Pulaar, Soninke and Wolof all live in areas with majority of Arabs Live. no changes will be included.

Western Africans calling themselves Sahrawi doesnt make them "non-Arabs", i call my self an Egyptian, but yet i am an Arab. i really dont think you meant it that way, so please inform me more about this point if i understood you wrong..

i will also be dividing Palestine into Israel and Palestinian Territories, with no boundries as there is no official borders drawn to date.

including Israel as a state with Arab Influence, and Palestinian Territories of Gaza Strip and West Bank as Arab States with Arab Majority.

thank you for your remarks, i would always like to help you out, especialy in Maps, im pretty good with them. thank you again.

salam

Your edit in Jerusalem

Hi, sorry I have reverted your addition of Ge'ez language to the intro of Jerusalem because I don't think it belongs there. Please consider Names of Jerusalem. Thanks and happy editing. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 01:15, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't add it to Jerusalem. Hebrew, Arabic, Greek and Latin are there because at some point these were official languages of the rulers of the place. If we list all the langs whose liturgy includes Jerusalem, the list would be way too long. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 01:28, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cushitic

Would you say that the habesha are cushitic people? Cluckbang 15:10, 26 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Legible Sources that you asked for earlier

This is the most important website: "It has been held that the home of the Semites was in Africa; and if that were the case, the people who spoke the Ethiopic language may never have migrated very much. But the majority of scholars who have expressed their opinion upon the subject believe that Asia was the home of the Semites; this is the opinion of the writer of this article also. Then the Semitic inhabitants of Abyssinia must have come from across the Red Sea. Their migration must have begun many centuries BC. It has hardly ever stopped, since Arabs in smaller, and sometimes in larger, numbers have been drifting into Abyssinia at all periods."- http://www.searchgodsword.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T3236 "The Semitic colonization of Ethiopia was established (10th cent. BC) from Sheba."- http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/S/Sheba-rgn.asp

"The descendants of Cush may have split, one part remaining in Asia, the other migrating to Africa to become the Ethiopia we still know to this day. In any case, we do know that more than one "Cush" existed."-http://nabataea.net/eden4.html

This is the most important source that I want you take important notice to Claude Sumner (1986). The Source of African philosophy: the Ethiopian philosophy of Man. Franz Steiner Verlag Wiesbaden GmbH. ISBN 3-525-04438-8.

"By mid first millennium BCE, clear evidence of close contact between the Ethiopians and the south Arabians has been found. The immigrants, though probably not entirely, mostly came from a region of western Yemen associated with Sabean culture. It has become a rather difficult task in assessing why the Arabians originally left their homes to an entirely new culture, which had very little connection to their own. Perhaps, conditions were extremely harsh in their homelands such that the only means of escape is a direct route across the Red Sea into Eritrea. Over time, as their social and perhaps economical connections in the Ethiopian region became vast, it was safe to assume that migrating from the harsh desert would only be in their best interest. When the south Arabians crossed the Red Sea, they found the tribes of the Beja, Agaw, and Sidama, to name a few of the major groups (Tamrat 5-6). The south Arabians brought with them a writing system, from which Ge’ez takes its origin. "-http://www.ethiopianhistory.com/articles.php?id=Pre-Aksum

Ancient Ethiopia Aksum Its Antecedents & by D W Phillipson ISBN:0714125393

According to tradition, the Ethiopian kingdom was founded (10th cent. &BC;) by Solomon's first son, Menelik I, whom the queen of Sheba is supposed to have borne. However, the first kingdom for which there is documentary evidence is that of Aksum (Axum), a kingdom which probably emerged in the 2d cent. &AD;, thus making Ethiopia the oldest independent country in Africa and one of the most ancient in the world. Immigrants (mainly traders) from S Arabia who had been settling in N Ethiopia since about 500 &BC; influenced the economy and culture of Ethiopia. Aksum controlled much of the Red Sea coast and had links with the Mediterranean world. http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/search/search.php?searchtext=Abyssinia&word=Ethiopia "Evidence of pre-humans has been discovered in the Buia region of Eritrea. The discovery may be one of the oldest ever found, and is similar to the famous “Lucy” find. Evidence of human presence begins in the 8th millennium B.C., beginning with Pygmoid, Nilotic, Cushitic (the Afar) and Semitic (Tigrinya) peoples. In the sixth century B.C., Arabs spread to the coast of persent day Eritrea, in search of ivory and slaves for trade with Persia and India. Their language evolved into Ge’ez, related to today’s Amhara, still spoken by Christian priests in Eritrea and Ethiopia. " http://www.dehai.org/demarcation-watch/articles/Meeting_Point_International_Eritrea.html By the way, please respond on my talkpage Cluckbang 14:28, 27 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Negus

Yom, what will it take to convince this Fastifex guy that "Negus" is not a Latinized word? The only source he has provided is a link to a page that when you click on it, claims that the Amharic word is pronounced "Negush" (which is of course wrong) and it says nothing at all about Latin. "Negus Negorum" is of course a bastardized combination of Ge'ez and Latin that is completely unattested as far as I know, I think he made it up himself, but even if it actually appears somewhere, it should have no place in the article as it is completely erroneous. The point is, you can't decline a Geez word as if it were a Latin word, just because it happens to end in -us. (If Negus were Latin, the form "Negorum" would indeed be the expected genitive plural, ie "of kings", but the Ethiopic and Latin languages are not to be mixed up like that!!) I think he has also broken 3RR in the last 24 hrs, or is close to it. Thanks! ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 15:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yom, he is still adding this 'Negus Negorum' stuff to the Viceroy article...! I just removed it again... ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 14:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lalibela

Hi Yom -- I've made a few changes to this article that I think you might like; please have a look. Also, I saw Codex Sinaiticus's note above, & made a few changes to that article -- could you or her kindly add the proper word for "drum" to that article? I can't find my notes that document it at the moment. PS -- if someone persists in being a nuisence & breaks 3RR, this can always be reported at WP:AN/3RR. -- llywrch 23:03, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Footnote questions

Yom, I was going to update the articles Lake Hayq & Istafanos monastery, & I noticed that you had added sources at the end of each article. Normally, I would think this wasa good thing, but the numbers of the notes don't connect to anything in the text. I'd fix it, but I don't happen to have the sources at hand to make the corrections with. Do you remember how these notes are supposed to fit into the text? -- llywrch 03:13, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I just saw your messages from the weekend on my talk page. I have installed the Ge'ez fonts on the computer I use at work which runs Windows, but haven't figured out the steps to do this in Linux. As for extracting the Ge'ez text from the CSA pdf file, what I have been doing is using the "Edit" -> "Select all" function in the Acrobat Reader 10.0 & pasting it into an open text editor like Notepad; I don't know if the Unicode part of the pdf original survives this manipulation in a usable form. Let me experiment with it a little & see what I can find; otherwise, I have a lot more typing to look forward to. :-/

In response to your more recent comment, I take it you knew about the recent translation of the Futuh al-Habashi? Darn, I hoping to suprise you. -- llywrch 15:23, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Slavery

YOm i wanted to ask you (this is no sarcastic question). Why is it that Ethiopia used to sell slaves/ promote slavery if they (as you said) were a native african civilization? I mean were'nt there slaves that looked like themselves? By the way, please respond on my talkpage

Cluckbang 21:00, 29 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Aksumite kingdom article

Yom, we NEED to further improve the Aksum article, so that one day (as i dream of it), it will be mentioned in the main page. Not ENOUGH people know about this prosperous civilization that was one of the four world powers. However, I also realized that there is NOT ENOUGH information on the article so far. I will do whatever i can to add as much more info that is more specific about the kingdom. I know youve contributed to almost all of the article so far, but there is much more info we need to add to it. So i was thinking we could maybe ask other users, just like the wiki project ethiopia, to make a wiki project about the aksumite kingdom, and we could make it as nice looking as the ancient egyptian, ottoman articles. Again please reply on my talkpage Cluckbang 15:07, 31 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Responded at his talk page. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 19:25, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Post-Aksumite History

If no one has genealogical information going back to Biblical times then I guess you are admitting that much of Ethiopian history harking back to the union of old testament King Solomon and Queen Sheba is pure hogwash? Well, no need to answer that. But by the same token, many of your sources regarding "Eritrean" and "Ethiopian" history are of the same quality. Let me explain: after the fall of Axum, there was no one single authority uniting the region currently known as "Ethiopia" or "Eritrea". These are modern concepts, as is the nationalist construction of a "glorious multimillenial Ethiopian history" quite reminiscent of fascist Italy and its references back to the golden era of Rome (which was no more an Italian Empire than Axum was an Ethiopian).

Most of them are, though there is some kernels of truth hidden in the legends (why shouldn't I answer that?). Why are my sources regarding history hogwash? There's enough evidence showing that the central region of Aksum remained under its control throughout the little documented 7th c.=11th/12th c. period. Most of Axum's territory remained intact, with expansions to the south (but the loss of Beja lands and the Nubian states in Sudan), with the only "Eritrean" territorial loss (temporary) being that of Dahlak between 702 and the 9th c. (800s), restored and held again for most of the period until the Ottoman invasion in 1557. Rome was a sort of Italian empire for most of its history, but it had substantial Greek influences and with its expansion came a blending of cultures. Moreover, with the fall of Rome, no major state truly based in Italy until 1855, as before then it was mainly fragmented small regional states and foreign-based powers (e.g. the Holy Roman Empire) controlling the region. Unlike that situation, the transition of Aksum to the modern day state of Ethiopia was a continuous one, and Aksum in fact referred to itself as "Ethiopia" from Ezana's reign onwards.

Both "Ethiopia" and "Eritrea" are ancient Greek terms adopted by Abbyssinian Kings inspired by the Bible in one case and Italian colonialists inspired by the glorious age of antiquity in the other case...Much of what is known as "Ethiopia" today was only incorporated in an increasingly cohesive "Abbyssinia: during the 18th and even as late as the end of the 19th centuries. As far as "Ethiopian" control over what is now known as "Eritrea" from the end of Axum and upto Italian colonialism, the search for sources to prove that are pointless since neither Eritrea nor even Ethiopia (as a concrete nation state) existed beyond the 19th century.

Of course "Ethiopa" was originally a Greek term and Ezana's adoption of it (which had previously referred to all of Africa south of Egypt, or specifically Kush) was influenced by his Christianity, but the fact is that from then (4th century) onward, that was the native name of the state and continued to be so without break, whereas the adoption of the term "Eritrea" as a term for a land area is recent (the Red Sea was sometimes called the "Sea of Ertra" in Ge'ez sources from the Greek name, but never the land bordering it). Ethiopia has never been a "nation state," so there's no need to say that it existed as such. From its earliest history it has incorporated multiple linguistic and cultural groups, as made very clear from Aksumite (and even D'mt to a degree) inscriptions, which list a number of people and tribes under Aksum's control. Ethiopia in fact did control most of the region controlled by Ethiopia today, in its "Golden Age" from 1332 to 1527, with the exception of the Ogaden, the most southwestern parts of the SNNPR, Gambella, and some of the western borderlands, but with the addition of Eritrea and the western part of Somaliland.

1. Foreign references to "Ethiopia" are often translated from the Arabic references to "Habashat" or European "Abbyssinian" and they were as so much else, based on racial misconceptions rather than accurate geopolitical data. Any Abbyssinian authority figure in contact with these foreigners was deemed the "King of the Habasha" (which is a racial term kind of like "scandinavian" or "germanic" denoting a population group who share a fair amount of physical and cultural traits, but not necessarily a ruler and country).

What do you mean racial misconception? I hope you're not insinuating that Habeshas aren't black (or maybe you're referring to the fact that Ethiopia/Abyssinia was said in maps to extend to most black-inhabited areas south of the Sahara outside of West Africa?). Of course the 'King of the Habasha" was equivalent with the ruler of a country, as it corresponds with the Ethiopian data, which makes that very clear. Note that the area was often called "Bilad al-Habasha," meaning the "Habasha country." I won't say that foreign sources wouldn't confuse servants of the Emperor as being the actual King, but Arabic references to the Emperor are only important in identifying who the ruler of Ethiopia was in two instances (disregarding identification that helps in chronology, but not in naming): regarding Queen Gudit (for whom the Arabic doesn't even provide a name, so it shouldn't actually count) and regarding Ashama ibn Abjar (Ella Saham). What foreigners called Ethiopia (which was sometimes indeed "Ethiopia," as evidenced by a late Medieval/Renaissance French work referring to "Ethiopie," clearly referring to Ethiopia proper as it said the queen had an "aquiline" nose) means nothing, as the native name is known to be Ethiopia from the 4th century to the present day.

2. The previously Axumite and surrounding regions inhabited by Abbyssinian and non-Abyssinian peoples was never a united area after the fall of Axum. Even during the Axumite empire and the proceeding power struggles, the structure of the region was not based on unity but on a central focus of power (which constantly moved after the fall of Axum) and a varying extent of several peripheral tributary states, who in all respects were independent and at times enemies of the power that demanded tributes from them.

Your comment regarding unity is incorrect. Those areas continued to be ruled by Aksumite/Aksumite-descended Emperors (when "Aksum" ends and the medieval period or Zagwe dynasty begins is uncertain, and the transition may have in fact been smooth). Regarding "Central control," such control has never existed in the Ethiopian region. Emperors have always been the supreme power, but controlling various areas with substantial local autonomy, with many of them simple vassals. These vassals often coveted the title of Emperor themselves (e.g. Sabr ad-Din, who wished to defeat Amde Tsiyon and become "King of Zion") and rebelled, but were never successful and only ceased to be tributaries with the invasion of Ahmed Gragn (but later restored for most areas).

3. Abyssinian peoples independent control of the coastland waned to all but nothingness after the fall of Axum, despite sporadic expansions of inland based "Kingdoms", no Abyssinian nation ever posessed a significant navy or a port after the fall of Axum (elephants are not considered naval vessels). The entire coast was dominated by islamic powers and their local vassals who at times may have been doubly taxed for tributes also from inland "Kingdoms" in order to serve as trading conduits. Within the "Abbyssinian" context, Eritrea's highlands were designated as a separate entity (Baher Meder, Mereb Mellash etc) indicating that a) they were somehow connected to the sea (Baher) and that the river Mereb even in pre-colonial times also served as a natural boundary of some sorts. It is perhaps best to regard certain aspects of post-Axumite "Ethiopian" history as that of regional cultures or civilizations that transcend national boundaries rather than that of a specific "country" named "Ethiopia".—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.49.250.12 (talk • contribs) 19:01, August 31, 2006 (UTC)

Not true. As I noted above, even Dahlak was, except for about 100 years in the 8th and 9th century, part of and tributary to Ethiopia up until the 1557 period. A Muslim expedition attempted against Adulis in 640 failed miserably, and the coast remained under Ethiopian control throughout the period. For instance, al-Ya'qubi refers to Massawa in 891-2 as part of Ethiopia (Bad.i`, the Arabic version of Tigrinya Batsi`), reaffirmed by al-Mas'udi in 935 (with "ts" as in Tigrinya, but the "b" corrupted to the very similarly written Arabic "n"). I don't see what relevance your reference to "elephants" has, but it's true that Aksumite naval power waned after the conquest of Yemen in the 6th century, though Ethiopian pirates continued to have power in the seas for some centuries afterward (even sacking Jedda in 702, resulting in the punitive expedition capturing Dahlak). The coast, contrary to the post-Ottoman situation, was actually inhabited by Christians up until the capture of Massawa and Hergigo by the Ottomans. See e.g. Taddesse Tamrat's Church and State in Ethiopia: 1270-1527, where the situation is extensively discussed. Only in Dahlak (in the north, there were Muslim Sultanates in the South as well) was there substantial Muslim presence and local Muslim sultans (but tributary to the Emperor of Ethiopia). Don't confuse Eritrea with the territories of "Bahr Midir," "Mereb Mellash," "Bur," and "Ma'ikele Bahr." They were not one in the same. These territories were not the northern-most province of Ethiopia. North of them were the provinces of "Marya" and "Bogos," which contained Bilen lands. Moreover, they did not exactly fit the boundary of even the highlands of Eritrea excluding Bilen lands. The province of Bur, for instance, included the Buri peninsula, Akkele Guzay, and Agame (divided into "Upper Bur" - the highlands, and "Lower Bur" - the Afar lowlands). the land of the Bahr Negash, for instance, was not just those lands bordering the sea, but also included Shire in Western Tigray far from the sea. Moreover, the Tigray Mekonnen (governer of Tigray), included the province of Bur (in modern-day Eritrea, but probably not including Buri peninsula) after the defeat of Bahr negus Yeshaq in 1578. As you can see, the historical data does not support your revisionism. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 22:25, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Habesha article

hi there Yom, i am creating a new article on the habesha people (User:Cluckbang/Habesha people , and I was wondering if you could give me some feed back on it. However, I dont want you to edit anything YET since I'm still working on it. I just want you to give me a knowledgable feedback on it. Also I was wondering if you could help me and L. Dingley expand the Coptic christian articleUser:Ldingley/copt people. Take care

Cluckbang 19:16, 1 September 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Responded at his talk page. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 19:50, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sheba Legends

In one of your conversation on your talkpage, you mentionned that the Queen of Sheba legend has some truth to it? What do you mean by this? Cluckbang 12:52, 2 September 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Responded at his talk page. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 19:59, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sabean language

Hi there Yom, i found a reknown historian in language in Ethiopia who believes that Sabean was introduced to ethiopia and later modified "The Ethiopians are the only people that differ from the users mentioned above. The difference lies in the fact that our writing system, unlike the Greek and the Latin which use the alphabetic system, is the prior syllabic system (6). This system was introduced to the northen part of Ethiopia approximately 2500 years ago by the Semitic Sabean people of Southern Arabia. As a result, this version of the Feedel (script) is also known as a Sabean script (7)." Baye Binyam, Phd, are you familiar with this historian?

http://www.ethiopians.com/bayeyima.html

Responded at talk page. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 19:14, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]