Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cheese sandwich

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Views are split fairly evenly between keep, redirect and delete and I don't think there's going to be any agreement soon. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 11:24, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cheese sandwich

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This one seems to be a catchall for any sandwich made with cheese. All of the mentioned sandwiches also have their own articles, and there is no source that ties them all together as a single topic or supports the first-sentence definition of a "basic" cheese sandwich. Any content that could be added here should instead be used to expand the main Sandwich article. –dlthewave ☎ 16:39, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. –dlthewave ☎ 16:39, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:37, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The nomination does not seem to contain a reason to delete; it seems to be a vague sort of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. In that spirit, let me commend the following droll item by James May: The Cheese Sarnie. See also WP:NOTCLEANUP. Andrew🐉(talk) 20:33, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as it stands this article is really nothing more than an eleborate dictionary definition. Nothing suggests this can easily be changed.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:52, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The title of the article is not a word; it's a phrase. It contains no etymology, pronunciation, spelling nor grammar. It could hardly be less like a dictionary entry. See WP:DICDEF for an explanation of the difference and the "perennial source of confusion". Andrew🐉(talk) 21:06, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Andrew. ser! (let's discuss it). 01:07, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Don't you need to declare a conflict of interest here? Phil Bridger (talk) 09:12, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ha! Didn't even know that one myself, that gave me a good chuckle. ser! (let's discuss it). 13:47, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - The issue here is that there are no sources talking about actual Cheese Sandwiches here. Almost all of the content of this article, which also accounts for most of the sources, are on Grilled cheese sandwiches, which already has its own, separate article, making most of this page redundant. The other two sources are also not on "cheese sandwiches", but on sandwiches that just happen to include cheese on them (the source on the "pickle and cheese sandwich", for example, is actually on pickles). I'm not discounting there being some sources on "cheese sandwiches", but just a cursory look for sources just turns up results that are either just recipes, or talking about Grilled cheese. Unless sources turn up during this AFD that actually talk about cheese sandwiches as a distinct entity, separate from Grilled Cheese, then the content here really can't stay. If nothing else, then it could probably be Merged & Redirected to that article. Rorshacma (talk) 01:21, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of sandwiches or Grilled cheese. There are a wide variety of sandwiches, many of which include cheese as an ingredient, but that doesn't make all of them "cheese sandwiches" or that a notable topic to collate together under such a name. Rorshacma notes we already have Grilled cheese a specific type of sandwich, but we shouldn't have a duplicative article for any arbitrary food that can be put in bread in various combinations just to say "you can eat cheese on bread." Reywas92^Talk 02:32, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Grilled cheese, the only really notable example, per Reywas92. A ham and cheese isn't a cheese sandwich, any more than a BLT is a lettuce sandwich. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:01, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak, weak keep. Besides grilled cheese, the British seem to like the humble ungrilled variety a lot: The Guardian calls it a "British lunchtime staple".[1] Delete the ham and cheese and breakfast sandwiches as blasphemous abominations. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:14, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of sandwiches, which I think is the better target, since there can be a simple ungrilled cheese sandwich. But the points brought up by others, that this isn't really about "cheese" sandwiches is valid. If better sourcing on the simple cheese sandwich is available then I would change my vote, but I can't find any (searches only turned up grilled cheese examples).Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:34, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Seems like a viable article. Counterproposals such as "redirect to list of sandwiches" would cause a loss of meaningful content, redirecting to "grilled cheese" fails a basic test since a grilled cheese sandwich is actually be a subset of cheese sandwiches. — Preceding unsigned comment added by IHateAccounts (talk • contribs) 15:49, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
delete outright Having looked the article over a couple of times, I am just not seeing the notion of cheese sandwiches as a whole as being shown to be notable. Once grilled cheese is taken out of the picture, none of the examples in the article actually are cheese sandwiches: they are all cases in which it is combined with some other filling. I could support a list of notable cheese sandwiches, were there one, but right now we are reduced to repeating the content of the grilled cheese article, and the obvious, banal, and uninformative statement that people use cheese as an ingredient in sandwiches. I don't see the point of redirecting to the list of sandwiches given that, it would appear, only a single entry in the list is a cheese sandwich. Mangoe (talk) 16:42, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This is so obviously going to be sought after by students - our core readership - that deleting it seems as cruel as I can imagine. There's also whole cookbooks on the variety of cheese sandwiches. Improve it, don't delete it. Bearian (talk) 17:56, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Could you give an example of a cheese sandwich cookbook? I didn't find anything like that in my search (just loads of stuff about grilled cheese), but it would certainly contribute to establishing notability. –dlthewave ☎ 18:19, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - As duplicative and trivial. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:39, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of sandwiches. This is not notable for its own article unlike its cousin the grilled cheese. There is little to no significant coverage in reliable secondary sources about a basic cheese sandwich. Missvain (talk) 01:41, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There are international agreements about this even. https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/eu-affairs/146285/banned-after-brexit-entering-the-eu-with-a-cheese-sandwich/ Google news shows 49,400 results. There are news articles in reliable sources about various types of cheese sandwiches, how to make them, reviews of them, etc. Dream Focus 13:33, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Cheese sandwich is very notable. Also, even if the current article is below par. It can be improved rather than be deleted.Kieran207 (talk) 17:38, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. While the topic may be notable, or at least of some interest, as noted by Mangoe above this article contains no worthwhile content, and there are no obvious venues of improvement or expansion. Sandstein 17:58, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete there's no content in here other than summaries of other articles. At best, this is a disambiguation to Cheese and pickle sandwich / grilled cheese. Shooterwalker (talk) 18:53, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I see this as a high-level article that likely won't include a great amount of text on its own apart from summaries of subtopics. We have cheese sandwich, grilled cheese, cheese dream, cheese on toast (?), melt sandwich, carrozza (sandwich), not to mention sandwiches which focus on the cheese even if there's also a protein like chopped cheese and others listed at Category:Cheese sandwiches. It's hard to argue that these sandwiches aren't related, but "grilled cheese" doesn't seem like the top-level subject that the rest grew out of. There are some sources, but it's a hard one to search for. It seems like if anything grilled cheese would be merged here, no? I'm not arguing that we should do that -- it's certainly independent notable -- but it seems odd to not have this article. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 20:07, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Convert to dab or convert to list, sort of per Rhododendrites. We have lots of articles about cheese sandwiches, and this is an extraordinarily plausible search term. Might as well give readers some place to find articles like: Cheese and pickle sandwich, Cheese dream, Grilled cheese, etc. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 23:17, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- You're thinking of List of sandwiches. Maybe that should be organized some way by ingredients rather than alphabetically. Reywas92^Talk 23:47, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Fair enough—in which case, a redirect to List of sandwiches would not be amiss either. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 00:07, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of sandwiches, to cover all types of "cheese sandwich". Organizing by ingredients could create duplication, so creating a List of cheese sandwiches could work as well with sources like The Guardian one above. We can discuss organizing List of sandwiches on its talk page. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 03:21, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.