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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Armbrust, B.Ed. Let's talkabout my edits? 16:04, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Marcel Gleffe

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Marcel Gleffe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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This article is about one of the many hundreds of people that participated in rescuing youth from Utøya during 22/7, which he was awarded the Officer's Cross of the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany. He was also awarded "Årets Nordmann 2011" (Norwegian of the year) by the magazine Ny Tid, but in my opinion neither makes him notable for an article at wikipedia. Mentoz86 (talk) 11:55, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. —Mentoz86 (talk) 11:58, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Norway-related deletion discussions. —Mentoz86 (talk) 11:58, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The nominator fails to mention the German awards. On the face of it Marcel Gleffe satisfies WP:GNG and WP:ANYBIO and I think that the grounds for challenge could only be that none of the awards are significant, or that he played only an incidental part in one event. I might be persuaded on that, but only by Norwegian and German residents with intimate knowledge of the media coverage and the significance of the awards in question. I understand that he has an entry in both the Norwegian and German WPs though, so it points to a clear keep. --AJHingston (talk) 12:23, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:04, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment He is one of 10 nominees for Dagbladet's "Norwegian of the Year" award, [1]. And he is the only nominee who is currently on the main page, of the Dagbladet website [2]. "... it points to a clear keep", said AJHingston — and I concur. (Somewhat interestingly, the Norwegian wikipedia article has failed to be nominated by the allegedly Norwegian nominator — or anyone else. Good to know that our wikipedia is more important to Norwegians, than Wikipedia in Norwegian.) One of the arguments for keep, in the now closed discussion [3] on German wikipedia, was that it would be inappropriate to keep the article about Anders Behring Breivik, while deleting the article about Gleffe.--Riambrid (talk) 11:11, 21 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Though there may be other concerns, I don't think notability should be in question, given the extent and nature of worldwide media coverage that he got. I have listed some more sources on the article's talk page. Being named "Norwegian of the year", though he is a German national, also makes him quite notable. In addition, he received the Officer's Cross of the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany. This is two levels up from the ordinary medal, so it's not something you get free with a packet of cornflakes. He also received a number of lesser awards.--Boson (talk) 22:28, 21 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I refrained from voting initially in order to allow some opportunity for the nominator or others to explain further in the light of the WP guidelines why the article should not be kept, but in the absence of that this has to be a clear keep. Mr Gleffe plainly meets WP:GNG, and although it can be argued that his presence close to the scene of the shootings initially was mere chance and others acted in a similar way, his actions on the day have been picked out internationally as exceptional. When judging notability Wikipedia does not concern itself with whether other people better deserved to be US president, have a music hit, make a sports team, etc, it records those who did make it. And Marcel Gleffe has attained the ranks of those who have become notable through showing exceptional courage in the service of others. --AJHingston (talk) 13:49, 24 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Marcel Gleffe was one of many, maybe hundreds, people saving youth in boats on 22/7. But because he is a German, he received the Order of Merit, (which is given to 3000 and 5000 Germans every year). Ny Tid is a magazine with very few readers on the left side of the political specter, and the person who receive their award "Norwegian of the year" is usually not very known in Norway, (last years winner Maria Amelie got known after the award, when the police realized that she wasn't allowed to be in Norway) and this year Marcel Gleffe was one of three non-notable people that received the award. But the coverage after 22/7 have been huge in Norway, and it might be that Marcel Gleffe is notable through WP:GNG, but that would make a lot of the other minor actors in the 2011 Norway attacks notable (This should be reverted). I read a lot of newspaper in Norway, and when my first "meeting" with a guy is an article on wikipedia, then it's a clear delete for me, especially when a blocked user have made the article and another blocked user is the main contributor. Mentoz86 (talk) 00:21, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BusterD (talk) 12:26, 29 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment:: If somebody is trying to say that national newspapers in Norway were not writing about Gleffe, before the wikipedia articles were made, then that somebody is wrong. (This artile in the Guardian about Gleffe, already on July 24 was referring to Dagbladet's article about Gleffe..
"3000 and 5000 Germans every year" getting the Officer's Cross (or higher), is nowhere near correct (so please stop using numbers that include recipients of the lower "rungs" of the award). Do you have a relevant number — such as how many received the Officers Cross (and above) in 2011.
The guy was the first on the scene, he saw the perpetrator, his boat was shot at, later he was not invited to the ceremony in Oslo Spektrum for the rescuers because authorities "could not find his address".
But maybe we should delete this article, and replace it with an article about stars and starlets from Norwegian reality TV.--Aksstar (talk) 13:10, 30 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The award ceremonies for the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany May to December 2011 are listed here]. The number of awards for the Officer's Cross (Verdienstkreuz 1. Klasse) were:
  • May: 25
  • June: 2
  • July: 1
  • August: 4
  • September: 11
  • October: 15 (including Gleffe)
  • November: 6
  • December: 13
--Boson (talk) 22:35, 30 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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