Talk:Corrective rape

Poor Example

I think the current example of the high profile gang-rape and murder of Eudy Simelane, is bizarre (and wrong, for obvious reasons). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.110.95.245 (talk) 08:47, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not obviously wrong to me. The cited sources discuss the case in the context of "corrective rape", so I'm not clear why it is bizarre and you would say WP is wrong to reflect what the sources say. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 05:13, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

While I can't speak for the OP, personally I do find the example a bit odd as she was murdered. It seems more of an example of a horrible hatecrime sort of punishment then any attempt to 'correct' her sexual orientation. (In other words, corrective rape seems more of a twisted world view sort of hate crime where even if there is some attempt at 'punishment' the offender also has some genuine believe they're going 'correct' the victim. Note that I'm not intended to underplay the horror of either just to say that I find then somewhat different.) However this is moot as we do have to reflect the sources Nil Einne (talk) 19:04, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure that it's wise to ascribe the ability to use basic logic to people who rape and murder other people. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:02, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

You'd be surprised the level of logic some of the most 'disturbed' minds can come up with. Typically it makes sense if the premises they rationalize their actions with are taken as true. Alutard (talk) 01:56, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

No, I wouldn't be surprised. That's why I suggested that it's probably not a good idea to assess their mental processes using normal principles of logic and reasoning. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 05:45, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Nil Einne. Corrective rape is defined as being for the purpose of 'correcting' sexual orientation. Eudy was murdered, so one must assume that the criminals weren't hoping her to come out of it and live life as a hetero. Wikidsoup _[talk] 22:19, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Tell it to the sources. Wikipedia just reports what sources already have. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 22:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I'm not very familiar with Wikipedia politics regarding such situations, but it definitely seems to me as if Ol'factory has some personal bias here. I think your problem is that you realize that without your one reference the article would be almost empty, which would downplay something which you probably view as a very important issue. Still, there is nothing "corrective" about murder - and questioning the sanity of the criminal doesn't help you here. And while WP does reflect the sources you as a serious editor should filter sources which make sense in any given context. I think we should delete that reference, but I'm not going to start an edit war Chymæra (talk) 07:02, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

The example of Eudy Simelane is relevant: if you've read the case, she was stabbed. She was left to die, yes, but her attackers' intentions may not to have been to kill her but to rape and torture her because she was a lesbian - and lesbians don't fit the traditional gender roles/presentation valued in South Africa (arguably, all of Africa). While I'm not trying to downplay what happened to Simelane, I am arguing that it was corrective rape (with assault). This case is important to the fight against corrective rape because it was the first that came with a conviction of the killers, even if there was no mention of homophobia. I think it should stay for these reasons. Rachelpop- (talk) 06:00, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

As a quick note, when I commented above, the article was [1] and I presume similar for the OP 58.... With the current version [2], I don't see an issue since it makes clear corrective rape isn't necessarily about trying to "correct" the victims sexual orientation but could be intended a punishment or to reenforce social norms. Which means whether or not the murder of Eudy Simelane was intentional, the example seems fine even from an OR POV of corrective rape. In fact the murder could be helping to further support the aims of the corrective rape (punishing her, sending a message to others etc). Nil Einne (talk) 14:21, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Article expansion

A classmate and I wish to expand this article because we feel like it is lacking in depth and information. We are in a course in college that has to do with poverty, development, and gender; part of the class is contributing to Wikipedia to increase awareness and knowledge. I attached the banner above (under the WikiProject banners) if you'd like to learn more about the class. We want to reformat the page by adding several sections, including definitions (about rape, corrective rape, and sexuality); prevalence in South Africa and lack of evidence in other countries; social issues surrounding corrective rape, specifically within military and family, while going into reasons why it occurs; and case studies, including Eudy Simelane and Zukiswa Gaca. If anyone has any suggestions, ideas, or would like to give feedback, we would be open to hearing them. We have not yet started the writing process, but these sections will be in our sandboxes for viewing within the next week. Thank you! Rachelpop- (talk) 22:24, 8 March 2012 (UTC) and TasneemIslam1025 (talk)

¶ I hasten to point out that "corrective rape" is not confined to black or 'backward' countries. It has its advocates and examples even in present-day Europe and the US. Both the 1955 novel and the 1964 movie GOLDFINGER used the rape of a lesbian which successfully "cured" her as a plot device. Even more recently it has been recommended by supposedly intelligent and well-educated Americans and Europeans. But apparently it has produced less than zero "cures"; not only has no former lesbian been known to have become heterosexual as a result of being raped by a man, but there are plenty of stories of women who are now dedicated lesbians who say that that they were straight or perhaps bi until raped by a man and thereafter they became entirely lesbian. Sussmanbern (talk) 18:09, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Article Expansion II

I too plan on expanding this article, but with a slightly different goal. I am minoring in Poverty, Justice and Human Capabilities (banner linked above) and majoring in the Study of Women, Gender and Sexuality at Rice University. I truly do not want to steal your (Tasneem and Rachel)thunder, so hopefully all three of us can contribute and make a better page. Personally, I would like to edit the page because corrective rape is a world-wide phenomenon that affects many lesbian, transgender, bisexual, and gender-queer women. The current article is a stub and only addresses a very small portion of the issue, focusing almost entirely on its manifestation in South Africa and its effect on lesbians. This issue is prevalent in many parts of the world, including highly industrialized or developed nations. Indeed, the very existence of this phenomenon indirectly affects all women, especially those that do not conform (either by choice or not) to the normative gender role for women in their community, through the atmosphere of fear and intimidation that it creates. All of this begs further clarification and discussion.

Here is my proposed outline:

I. Definition

The current definition on the Wikipedia page reads: “Corrective rape is a criminal practice first seen in South Africa, whereby lesbian women are raped by men, sometimes under supervision by members of their families or local communities, purportedly as a means of ‘curing’ them of their homosexuality.” After my initial research, a more accurate definition of corrective rape would be: a criminal practice and hate crime first identified in South Africa, whereby women who do not conform to normative gender roles are raped by men, sometimes under supervision by members of their families or local communities, purportedly as a means of “curing” them of their homosexuality.

II. Background

III. Statistics

IV. Medical Ramifications

V. Psychological and Social Ramifications

VI. Case Studies/Testimonies

South Africa

Eudy Simelane

I will clarify the currently contentious inclusion of the rape and murder of the South-African soccer player and out lesbian, Eudy Simelane. On the discussion page this is the only issue that has been brought up as a “bad example” because it is unclear as to whether the intentions of her attackers were to convert her into a heterosexual or to murder her (her naked body was found in a ditch where she died after being stabbed nine times). In the revised page I plan to include her murder but it will not be as prominent because I will be adding other examples and, in general, adding much more content. In the section that I include on Simelane, I plan to state the contention that exists and give other examples of South African women who were stabbed or badly beaten while being subjected to corrective rape like Noxoio Nkosana who was also stabbed several times before being raped. Obviously this debate hasn’t led to the article being taken down because the discussants seem to realize that many sources specifically refer to the incidents as examples of corrective rape regardless of whether the victims survive the attack or not.

Noxoio Nkosana

Canada

VII. Activism/Preventative Efforts

Luleki Sizwe

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! 168.7.241.78 (talk) 02:44, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Potential Revisions

This article is well-written, logically organized, and very thorough. I understand that multiple people are currently working on this article, so I suppose that is expected! The only suggestion I have is very minor: it is more consistent with Wikipedia style to just state "Definition" rather that "Definition of [topic]" in your header. I have read through the article twice and I did not notice any other specific revisions. I would only recommend reading through your contributions once more to make sure the writing is as concise as possible. Overall, this is a really well done article. Colleenfugate (talk) 02:23, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for noticing that - I had completely overlooked that just writing "Definition" was more consistent with Wikipedia's style. I will be sure to change that! And since last time I revised this page, I have tried cutting down as much as possible although it's been difficult. TasneemIslam1025 (talk) 22:08, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Suggestions for Improvement

I really like this article! You have a nice mix of history, statistics, examples from a variety of countries, policy suggestions, and organizations dedicated to combating corrective rape, and the entire thing is very well-organized and easy to follow. I only have two comments that could possibly improve your article. (I know there a lot of people working on this article so my suggestions might not align with the work you contributed, but they might be something to go back and address either way). The first is about the use of quotes at the beginning of subsections within your article, particularly in the section that defines corrective rape. I'm not sure if using quotes is standard for Wikipedia articles. To me, it seems to go against Wikipedia's encyclopedic standards, but I could be wrong. The second suggestion I have is about spelling out who exactly Douglass Janoff is and why he is important to your topic. Since your article starts off with a definition from him, it would be helpful for readers to know why he matters. Including his profession would give him more credibility to the average Wikipedia-reader. kebarnes91 (talk) 12:49, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the helpful feedback! An earlier suggestion had to do with the quote at the beginning of the "Definition" section. I will look at Wikipedia's rules about writing and if using quotes are appropriate in the way we did. If not, I will find another way to incorporate that quote if possible. And Douglass Janoff is the author of Pink Blood: Homophobic Violence in Canada which is a book about the murders and assualts that the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered community has faced in Canada. Moreover, this book is the first of it's kind to analyze violence against the LGBT community on a national scale. Janoff himself is a policy advisor for the Government of Canada. If this information seems relevant to include in the definition section, I definitely will add it. TasneemIslam1025 (talk) 22:22, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Peer Review

Overall I think the article is extremely substantive and is an impressive contribution. I particularly like the case studies that you include as well as the activism and preventative efforts discussed at the end of the article. I think it would interesting to see more statistics for corrective rape in Canada. Corrective rape is a particularly interesting phenomenon to take place in a place where gay marriage in legalized. Are the beliefs about sexual assault of gay men described in this section specific to Canada or could this be more generalizable? The same question goes for the prison incidents mentioned in the section. In addition, I’d be interested in seeing more information about the “legal and public policy” dimension of corrective rape in the Canadian context since you include a separate section about Canada previously in the article. Perhaps including canada as well as other countries in the “legal and public policy” section and adding the UK section would make the article more consistent. Ultimately, I think you all did a good job contributing to the article. It is a huge improvement over the article that was previously there before your contributions. Cctomball (talk) 13:31, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Article Review

After reading your article, I only have a few suggestions. In the "Definition" section, I think the quote that you used by the girl was simple, yet powerful, but I don't know if that was the right section to put that quote in. It might be better placed in the section immediately following the definition, under "Why it Occurs". Additionally, the quote in the "Statistics" section doesn't seem to really belong there. I would try to think of a more applicable section to put that quote in, or delete it all together.
Also, because you give Canada its own section, I would think about giving all of the other countries mentioned under "Other Countries" their own section for uniformity and also to not place more severity of the issue in Canada over the other countries mentioned.
Finally, this is a very small critique, but under the section "Health", you can't use the term "woefully inadequate" because it takes away from the neutrality of the article, despite the fact that the issue is tragic. I would just double check the whole article to make sure your word choice remains neutral.
All in all, the article is very well-written and extremely informative. Great job! Hmccann (talk) 21:23, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice! I response to the sections that pertain to what I wrote, I agree that it may be better placed under "Why it Occurs." However, I think that the purpose of the quote is to capture the essence of what corrective rape is: to "convert" a lesbian into a straight girl. I think the quote is powerful in describing the act of corrective rape in a straightforward way, which starts the article off strongly. I will discuss moving the quote with my partners though because I think you bring up a good point although I do not completely agree it should be moved. TasneemIslam1025 (talk) 21:58, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Peer Review

What a valuable contribution to Wikipedia! Here are are some suggestions for improvement:

1) Revising grammatical and punctuation errors especially in the stories of Zukiswa Gaca and Zoliswa Nkonyana. The quotations from their stories might reflect colloquial (and subsequently incorrect) speech, but they need to be edited so it reads better on the Wikipedia page. Also, rather using gender pronouns like "He/She said," refer to the individuals by their given names. This will give more objectivity and specificity to these subsections.

2) Citing. The current page has many in-text sources like "....," Jill Henderson from the Triangle Project told BBC. I think that citing in that manner adds unnecessary verbiage to the article. Unless the author or writer is prominent, the name of the author in the Wikipedia article is fairly irrelevant. Refer to this page for the proper protocol on how to cite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources

3) More research on Canadian statistics. You have a well-developed paragraph on South African statistics, which is why it seems imbalanced not to have a proportionally well-developed paragraph on Canadian statistics.

4) Renaming subsections. Prevalence as a title doesn't reveal global statistics of this global phenomenon. It would be more appropriate to label the section "By Country" since you're describing several country-specific examples of corrective rape. Then, as a subsection to "By Country," you can have "South Africa," "Canada," "Zimbabwe," "United States," "Thailand," and "Ecuador." You wouldn't need a separate category for Other Countries this way either!

5) Statistics section was useful. You could rename it "Prevalence."

Also, here's a link to Wikipedia's style guide which will immensely help you during your next revision: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style

Your lead section was amazingly concise! Very easy to follow and read! Good work! Saimatoppa (talk) 00:27, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Peer Review

Great Article! I think this is a valuable contribution to Wikipedia and very well organized and explained. I would like to suggest a few changes that could help with overall cohesiveness. The section of health ramifications describes a number of serious health concerns. I think some statistics with actual numbers of these ramifications particularly in South Africa (because you mentioned it in this section already) might be pertinent and help ground these facts in real numbers.

Another suggestion is under the subsection, global impacts. You talk about patriarchy being worse when nations go to war and then you don’t really address what war has to do with the topic or why this happens. I think you should explain this idea or take that part out. Another suggestion is with this sentence. Heteronormativity is the idea, dominant in most societies, that heterosexuality is the only ‘normal’ sexual orientation, only sexual or marital relations between women and men are acceptable,and each sex has certain natural roles in life, so-called gender role.” This could be reworded to be more clear.

Lastly, you mention the Uzima Collective group based in North Carolina and Edge magazine based in the United States, but the U.S. does not seem to be a significant country of interest for your article. Is there enough information to add the United States under the prevalence section?

Overall, I think you did a great job with this article. I like the use of case studies and pertinent quotations form relevant individuals.

Risadieken (talk) 02:29, 11 April 2012 (UTC)Risadieken

Peer Review

Overall, this is a good article. It's both informative and easy to read, and the case studies and quotes help to humanize the material.

Just a few things to look at:

• The tone here is overall rather casual. Phrases like "Janoff never directly says “corrective rape” either", "What happens is that", and "while gay men are raped by women, sometimes, under supervision of" add to this feel, making the article read less formal than it should. I would give the text another run through and make sure this is addressed.
• "Women who are identified as lesbians" is an interesting phrase. Are you saying "women who are believed to be lesbians" or "women who identify as lesbians"? I think this distinction is important in this case, so I would make it clear.
• You could maybe change "the practice of corrective rape was described but never stated specifically as “corrective rape”" to "...but never stated specifically as such" to avoid the sound of repetitiveness.
• "There are many cases in which the victim does not survive the attack or are maimed/scarred for life" - should be "is" here
• I would be sure to include the US in the list of countries near the beginning that have had instances of corrective rape, especially since you describe American cases later on in the article.
• "She was 31-years-old when she died after being stabbed 9 times, and her naked body was found near a drainage ditch" This sentence should be restructured some; it's choppy as is.
• Try to avoid too many in-line citations; they make the article too verbose. Citations are often enough.

These are easy fixes, however, and I can see that you've already begun working on the suggestions sent to you, which is only making the article stronger. Great job! Scb3 (talk) 04:53, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Sources and original research

I just finished cutting some material out of types of rape as the sources didn't use the words "corrective rape" or Simelane. I'll try to do some citation improvements on the article over the next little while and will do my best to also check the sources to make sure there is no original research or other problems with the citations while I do so. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 22:29, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Zwelixolile (talk) 19:16, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Incorrect information

The information stated on the article in the United Nations section (5.2) is the absolute inversion of what is stated in the .pdf it's taking information from. "In 86 UN member states, violence towards a person based on the his/her sexual orientation is illegal, and in seven countries, it is punishable by death" whereas the .pdf says that in 86 of the UN nations homosexuality is illegal and in seven nations punishable by death.

Also this was written in 2009 so some of the information is now out of date (especially compared to this article on the topic of sexual orientation in the UN: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_and_gender_identity_at_the_United_Nations).

"Sixty-six countries have signed the declaration, including six countries in Africa. The United States, India, and South Africa are among the countries that have not yet signed." The US signed in October 2009; South Africa in 2011 and I have no idea about India.

That whole section needs to be redone, basically. I (as my writing proves) know nothing about wikipedia's formatting so... yeah. Hope that helps.

12,19, 30 April 2012 (GMT) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.39.143 (talk)

I was struck by the following line "The term was coined in South Africa after well-known cases of corrective rapes of lesbians like Eudy Simelane and Zoliswa Nkonyana became public." It's very passionate, but not correct.

I have been digging in google trends searching for "corrective rape" and it was being used in South Africa since 2008 - you can see more from this link to a copy of the google webtrends stashed in webcite.org http://www.webcitation.org/680AEgHGK it can be used as a ref - and it should not suffer link rot.

It's a useful reference as it links to coverage in 2008 - The Times. I have not been able to locate the actual source - you may have better luck. I'm not in South Africa. As the source pre-dates both Eudy Simelane and Zoliswa Nkonyana it shows that the claims are wrong. Sorry! P^(

It is interesting that the first recorded media source concerns schools in South Africa ""‘Corrective rape’ in SA schools"" - The Times - Mar 12 2008. I have been looking for the source online but it seems to have been removed from the Times Website. If someone can check printed copies of the paper it would be valuable.

The web trends graph shows that there is a massive usage of "corrective rape" concerning South Africa too. That shows that the term is being used to reflect the seriousness of the situation in South Africa.

I have to say that you can't claim that "corrective rape" was coined. It was an uncommon term but I was using it back in the 1980's dealing with the UK police over LGBT issues. I'm still looking for an original citation.

I would rewrite the lead so that it says that term corrective rape became linked to South Africa's growing rape crisis from 2008 onwards.

I would also shift the section on prevalence into the lead as the term is not used solely about South Africa. The issue does exist in other countries, even if the incidence is not as high as South Africa.

I have been working on additional material concerning rape culture and South Africa - you can see it in my sand box on this link. I have located many other sources too.

Hope that helps! Media-Hound 'D 3rd P^) (talk) 17:04, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Is Corrective Rape in the Penile Code of any municipality on the planet?

If not I don't see why this shouldn't be rolled into the rape article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.104.177.124 (talk) 14:01, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Furthermore, I don't see why corrective rape is indicated on here as a "hate crime", but being homosexual is not considered a hate crime, although punishments for the latter are often worse than for the former? --107.212.21.56 (talk) 23:11, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

furthermore I see that you are using multiply different ips to talk on here. That is not allowed by policies. Please use one ip or make an account. NathanWubs (talk) 12:56, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

To clarify, per WP:SOCK and Wikipedia:Why create an account? it's not forbidden to use IPs even multiple ones to comment or edit. In some cases IPs may be blocked because someone using that IP is creating problems or in a small number of cases the risk of editing from that IP is too high and in other cases IPs may be forbidden from editing a page due to problems or potential problems from that editing. If an editor is intentionally changing their IP to make monitoring difficult or if an editor is using multiple IPs to pretend to be different editors, that is a problem but not simply editing from multple IPs which can easily arise unintentionally due to the policies of ISPs. Nil Einne (talk) 14:39, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

• "Is Corrective Rape in the Penile Code ...". Oh my. My, my, my. Too good. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 19:18, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Gay men?

The article, citing a 2010 US State Department report on human rights in Zimbabwe, states that women perpetrate corrective rape on gay men. But neither the cited report nor a 2012 update gives examples, and they lump corrective rape and forced marriages together as something to which LGBT people are subjected. Other reports that I found in a very brief search mentioned the rape of lesbians in South Africa. Certainly, gay men in many countries are forced into marriage, but I don't think we have established that women are raping them. Probably many more are raped by men, but that kind of rape seems more opportunistic and punitive than corrective. Peter Chastain (talk) 21:19, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

If it's not supported by the WP:Reliable sources, I support removing it. That is, if you can't find WP:Reliable sources somewhere about this. Flyer22 (talk) 21:25, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I removed the simple statement in the definition section and added a new section about gender. I hope someone else will clean up redundancies with other sections and redundant wikilinks. Peter Chastain (talk) 07:52, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

At least one Zimbabwean journalist thinks that gay men are raped by women, so I guess we now have a reliable source. Peter Chastain (talk) 16:34, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

New Category:Violence against trans men

Article to back up new inclusion http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/12/05/south-africa-lgbt-rights-name-only

--Drowninginlimbo (talk) 00:54, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Violence against women template

Is the Violence against women template really appropriate for this article? --Padenton (talk) 23:01, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Of course it is, given that the vast majority of sources/content in this article concerns women. Flyer22 (talk) 00:14, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

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"Intersectionality" section is biased.

" In South Africa, black lesbians face homophobia, sexism, racism, and classism. Research in 2008 by Triangle, a gay rights group, revealed that black lesbians were twice as afraid of sexual assault compared to white lesbians." This acts like it has something to do with racism. It's really because black south Africans are just more homophobic on average. African culture is generally more opposed to LGBT rights than white, western countries. Alex of Canada (talk) 07:52, 26 August 2017 (UTC)Alex of Canada

That invites a rather obvious question: If your premise is correct, how do you suppose that situation came to be? The legacy of colonialism in Africa includes an inextricable tangle of prejudices not dissimilar to that of other western countries some decades ago. In any case, even if it were as simple as you suggest, it isn't clear that the wording is problematic. Feel free to propose an alternative. Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 15:37, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Alright. I really don't see how this has anything to do with colonialism. What I'm, saying is the page seems to act like black LGBT people are worse off than white LGBT people in SA because of racism. The thing is, I never see white people attacking LGBT people. Yes, most of the victims are black, but so are most of the perpetrators. Perhaps the page should mention that? Alex of Canada (talk) 01:03, 28 August 2017 (UTC)Alex of Canada

Inconsistent information

In the 'Prevalence' section', Thailand is listed as a country where preventive rape happens, but there is no subsequent section on it. But Jamaica is not listed, yet there is a section on it. This strikes me as inconsistent.213.127.210.95 (talk) 17:18, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Added Jamaica. Thanks. (Note: Ecuador is also listed without a subsequent section.) Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 16:38, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Is it not a hate crime when done to heterosexual but "non-conformist" women?

The article appears to contradict itself on this point, as both the lead and the "Definitions" section define it as including rape of heterosexual, cisgender women to force them to conform to "traditional" gender roles (Corrective rape is a hate crime in which one or more people are raped because of their perceived ... gender identity. The common intended consequence of the rape, as seen by the perpetrator, is ... to enforce conformity with gender stereotypes.; Corrective rape is the use of rape against people who do not conform to perceived social norms regarding human ... gender roles. The goal is to punish perceived abnormal behavior and reinforce societal norms.), but in the "Contributing factors and motivations" section appears to be calling a hate crime based on sexuality as opposed to gender (Corrective rape is a hate crime. However, due to homophobia and heteronormativity, hate crimes based on sexuality (as opposed to race, gender, class, age, etc.) are often not recognized by authorities.).

I'm not sure how to reconcile these: is it not considered a hate crime when it is not based on sexuality but is instead committed against a woman who doesn't conform to non-sexuality-based gender stereotypes? Or am I just reading that in to the wording of the lead and opening of the body, and the term actually doesn't cover that in the first place? If so, I kinda feel like the definition needs to be reworded.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:02, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

The wording probably could be clearer. One thing to keep in mind is that the definition of "hate crime", like the definition of "crime" itself, differs from place to place. Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 04:40, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Add gender expression and the desire to turn someone cisgender

Hi! I would like to start a discussion about change the article lead to:

"Corrective rape", also called curative[1] or homophobic rape,[2][3][4] is a hate crime in which one or more people, typically actual or perceived lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender (LGBT) or gender non-conforming[5] people, are raped because of their actual or perceived sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression[6]. The common intended consequence of the rape, as seen by the perpetrator, is to "turn" the person heterosexual, cisgender or to enforce conformity with gender stereotypes.

Sources in the edition I did below: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corrective_rape&direction=prev&oldid=930107690

I specially think it would be important to put gender expression as one of the "causes" of the rape, as well that this kind of rape is also used to try to "turn" the person cisgender.

I'm sorry that I forced the changes.

Pedrovariant (talk) 20:40, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Not a common definition of corrective rape. Poor sourcing. Not necessary. The gender expression piece certainly doesn't belong in the lead. And "gender expression" is already covered by "gender identity", and by "gender roles" mentioned lower in the article. And, yes, I stand by my statement in the edit history that gender expression is barely distinguished from gender identity. This is why that article can barely be expanded without engaging in WP:Synthesis and adding related material rather than material explicitly about gender expression. As for your comment in the edit history that me stating that gender expression is barely distinguished from gender identity is like stating that "gender roles and gender are almost the same"? Gender roles are one aspect of the definition of "gender" since "gender" is defined in more than one way. And as for trying to turn people cisgender? That's why "gender identity" is included in the definition. And if the source doesn't state "trying to turn people cisgender" or use similar wording, neither should we. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:53, 10 December 2019 (UTC) Updated post. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:23, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Belgium

Can we please add Belgium to the countries? There is a lot of medical malpractice in the country including high prevalence of LGBT imprisonment and corrective rape because of the problems we are facing with corrupt courts at the national and local level. 188.188.139.174 (talk) 15:59, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Of course you can add Belgium to the countries list, if you have reliable articles or other sources, even if they aren't in English. I can help you add some information about Belgium. Or you can yourself, if you'd like. For help editing Wikipedia, see Help:Introduction and Wikipedia:Teahouse. Iscargra (talk) 03:54, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program course assignment

This article is the subject of an educational assignment at Rice University supported by the Wikipedia Ambassador Program during the 2011 Q3 term. Further details are available on the course page.

The above message was substituted from {{WAP assignment}} by PrimeBOT (talk) on 16:25, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program course assignment

This article is the subject of an educational assignment at Rice University supported by the Wikipedia Ambassador Program during the 2011 Q3 term. Further details are available on the course page.

The above message was substituted from {{WAP assignment}} by Primefac (talk) on 16:36, 2 January 2023 (UTC)