Greta G's Reviews > Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith

Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer
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Since Donald Trump took office, Iceland responded by protecting its secular culture. The Icelandic government declared that all religions are considered mental disorders and banned all religious practices.
The Icelandic Psychological Defense Act (IPDA) made it illegal for any American televangelist to set foot in the country. The Iceland Heritage Defense Act (IDHA) strictly prohibits Christians from entering several locations and tourist sites, like libraries, women health centers, Starbucks, hot water springs, and Richard Dawkins Monument to Reason.
In 2019, Iceland placed the Southern Baptist Convention on its list of terrorist organizations, for using fear of eternal torment to achieve political goals.
Visitors who aren’t vaccinated due to religious reasons are prohibited from entering the country. They can be sick elsewhere.
Iceland’s Parliament chose to warn its citizens of the inherent dangers of taking the ‘Good Book’ seriously, and warning labels must be put on all Bibles. Taking the Bible literally can lead to irrational decision making; reading the Book of Revelation is positively correlated with speaking in tongues and other psychotic events. This new statute also demands that every Bible sold must be wrapped in plastic to keep small children from picking up the book and reading verses like Psalm 137:9 “Blessed is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks”.
Reading the Bible has also been shown to cause an outbreak of Donald Trump.

This story about Iceland is of course false. It was originally published on the Patheos website in its satirical section called ‘Laughing in Disbelief’ (https://www.patheos.com/blogs/laughin...), however it became a hoax on social media, with users believing it and commenting on the story as though it was real.

But why am I telling you this story?

Well, for starters, for the shock effect. I anticipate that some readers will be shocked more by reading this false story than by reading the story of the cruel murders by the Lafferty brothers which is the theme of Jon Krakauer’s book. It was just another murder inspired by fundamentalist belief - nothing new here. If that’s the case - if you felt shock while reading that false story - then it should make you stop and think…

Secondly, to compensate for the total lack of humor in the book. Seriously, reading Krakauer’s book isn’t fun at all. When I picked up this book, I expected that I at least would chuckle somewhat while reading about prophets and their divine revelations. I couldn’t. Mostly I felt annoyed by what I read.

Further, I believe that potential readers deserve to be warned about the danger of reading this book. At some point, I couldn't help thinking 'Oh my goodness, suppose this sort of crap is true for all religions, and by extension for the beliefs that define most people's lives’.
I don't think any other book could succeed in making me feel more skeptical about religion in general than this book did. The documented history of Mormonism was quite eye-opening, and I couldn’t help imagining similar origins of other religions.
Of course, religious fundamentalism was fundamental to (pun intended) the violence and repression recounted in this book, but where exactly do you put a moral limit on religiosity?
Honestly, the realization of living in a world rife with religious superstition, combined with my aversion of the current delusional ‘leader of the free world’ made me want to throw up.

Most importantly though, at some point in the court case against Ron Lafferty, the court first needed to determine if he was mentally competent to stand trial. Was Ron in his right mind? Was he crazy or sane?

“Saying that anyone who talks to God is crazy has enormous implications for the whole world of religion. It imposes a secular view of sanity and means that all religions are insane.
This issue was especially germane for Latter-day Saints, given the unusual importance Mormons have always placed on communicating directly with the Almighty. Their entire faith is based on talking to God.

This case potentially had great ramifications for the manner in which American courts would deal thereafter with violent crimes inspired by religious belief.
If Ron Lafferty were deemed mentally ill because he obeyed the voice of his God, isn’t everyone who believes in God and seeks guidance through prayer mentally ill as well? In a democratic republic that aspires to protect religious freedom, who should have the right to declare that one person’s irrational beliefs are legitimate and commendable, while another person’s are crazy? How can a society actively promote religious faith on one hand and condemn a man for zealously adhering to his faith on the other?”

That was really interesting because his defense lawyer said, "Look, how could someone with these extreme beliefs — talking to God, God tells him to kill his sister-in-law and her baby — that's clearly insane." And the prosecution said, "No, no. People have extreme religious beliefs all the time." I mean, most of us believe something that to outsiders would be preposterous — parting of the Red Sea, the virgin birth, going to heaven.

The prosecution prevailed. Ron Lafferty was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to death. However after spending 34 years on Utah's Death Row, Ron died a natural death last year.
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Reading Progress

October 29, 2016 – Shelved
July 4, 2020 – Started Reading
July 4, 2020 –
11.0% "“As his sixth wife, Debbie became a stepmother to Blackmore’s thirty-one kids, most of whom were older than she was. And because he happened to be the father of Debbie’s own stepmother, Mem, she unwittingly became a stepmother to her stepmother, and thus a stepgrandmother to herself.”"
July 21, 2020 –
23.0%
August 17, 2020 –
75.0% "“I’ve already had the lethal injection of Mormonism,” Ron barked back. “And I kind of wanted to try something different this time. . . . I’ll take the firing squad. How’s that? Is that pretty clear?”
“That’s clear,” said the judge, and then sentenced Ron to be shot to death for his crimes—underscoring the fact that Mormon Fundamentalists are by no means the only modern Americans who believe in blood atonement."
August 18, 2020 –
100.0% ""Accepting the essential inscrutability of existence, in any case, is surely preferable to its opposite: capitulating to the tyranny of intransigent belief.""
August 18, 2020 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-41 of 41 (41 new)

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message 1: by Licha (new) - added it

Licha Oof! Got a headache just trying to figure out that puzzle.


message 2: by Ram (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ram A very interesting book .... Especially with the weird things happening in the U.S since Trump came into the picture but more intensively since the covid-19 outbreak


Greta G Licha wrote: "Oof! Got a headache just trying to figure out that puzzle."

Hi Licha. I suppose you're referring to my July 4 update? I really had to concentrate to make sense of it also. :)


Greta G Ram wrote: "A very interesting book .... Especially with the weird things happening in the U.S since Trump came into the picture but more intensively since the covid-19 outbreak"

Hi Ram,
I'm totally flabbergasted by this book!


H (is anyone getting notifications) Balikov It is a very scary book, Greta. One that many will find tempting to extrapolate to much of American culture and American politics.


message 6: by Greta G (last edited Jul 23, 2020 09:20AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Greta G HBalikov wrote: "It is a very scary book, Greta. One that many will find tempting to extrapolate to much of American culture and American politics."

Do you think we shouldn't extrapolate this to much of American culture and politics, H.?
More than 50 % of Americans live 'Under the banner of Heaven', compared to only about 11 % of Western Europeans (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...).


H (is anyone getting notifications) Balikov Greta G wrote: "HBalikov wrote: "It is a very scary book, Greta. One that many will find tempting to extrapolate to much of American culture and American politics."

Do you think we shouldn't extrapolate this to m..."



Thank you, Greta, very much for sharing that report. I believe we must be careful here. While over 50% of Americans identify as religious less than 2% are Mormons, the subject of this book. Further, Krakauer does an excellent job of further separating the fundamentalist sects from the LDS. Many Christians in the USA do not consider Mormons to be Christians and so generalizing about Christian politics in the USA from this book is fraught with pitfalls.


message 8: by Greta G (last edited Jul 24, 2020 07:58AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Greta G HBalikov wrote: "Greta G wrote: "HBalikov wrote: "It is a very scary book, Greta. One that many will find tempting to extrapolate to much of American culture and American politics."

Do you think we shouldn't extra..."


I'm afraid that's not exactly what I meant, H. Many Western Europeans do identify as being Christian. Much more than 50% by the way. The big difference is that Western Europeans are much less religiously observant, and that religion isn't very important in their daily life. For 68 % of American Christians, religion is very important in their lives ; of all Americans, 53% find religion very important in their daily lives (same study). That's why I wrote that more than half of Americans are living 'under the banner of heaven'.


message 9: by Greta G (last edited Jul 24, 2020 08:34AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Greta G I wonder how many (religious) Americans aren't worried about getting the corona virus because they think God will protect them (I heard an interviewee at the Tulsa rally say exactly that)?

And how many Americans think that a 'civil war' against the 'radical left' democrats is unavoidable (again, an interviewee at the Tulsa rally)?

I'm not an expert on American politics and culture, but I connect such statements to what's happening in your country at this very moment. Hopefully I'm wrong.


Michael Perkins Several new religions were formed in America in the 19th century: Christian Science, Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter Day Saints. LDS was originally a violent cult, but it's clearly mainstreamed now, but women remain subservient. (I learned the latter from women who left the LDS fold).

I think this is an interesting and accurate take on Evangelicals, who are loyal to Trump....

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...


Greta G Michael wrote: "Several new religions were formed in America in the 19th century: Christian Science, Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter Day Saints. LDS was originally a violent cult, but it's cl..."

Thanks Michael.

Well, I'm curious but also deeply worried about what will be 'John Wayne's' next step in his war against democrat-run cities.

He called China's treatment of Hong Kong 'a tragedy', yet he seems to be acting in an equally tragic way in his own country.


message 12: by Fred (new) - added it

Fred Shaw Hi Greta. Excellent choice. I enjoy Krakauer.


message 13: by Licha (new) - added it

Licha Greta G wrote: "Hi Licha. I suppose you're referring to my July 4 update? I really had to concentrate to make sense of it also. :)"

Yes. lol.


H (is anyone getting notifications) Balikov Your clarification is much appreciated, Greta


message 15: by Jenna (new)

Jenna ❤ ❀  ❤ This looks like an interesting book.

As for what you wrote above, "I wonder how many (religious) Americans aren't worried about getting the corona virus because they think God will protect them" -- unfortunately a whole lot of them. The fundamentalist baptist church a block away has their parking lots full every sunday morning, sunday night, and wednesday night. NOBODY wears a mask going in or coming out (I've barely left the apartment since March so I'm allowed to spend my time spying on insane people :-D)

They truly believe "god" will protect them because they're in church. No doubt they're sitting in there patting themselves on the back for their "pious faith". (I wouldn't call it that)

They aren't the only insane people though. Barely anyone in the town I live in wears one (which is why I stay home), despite the numbers of infection rising rapidly the last couple of weeks. They trust in trump that this is all just going to miraculously go away and any politician who suggests wearing a mask and social distancing in public is a dictator who is oppressing them.

And as for what you asked, "Do you think we shouldn't extrapolate this to much of American culture and politics?". Yes, you should. Our culture of extreme capitalism, mass entertainment, individuality, and irrationality has gotten us where we are.... and it's not a place anyone with any intelligence or ability to think rationally sees as positive. It's terrifying.


Greta G Fred wrote: "Hi Greta. Excellent choice. I enjoy Krakauer."

Thanks Fred. It's the first book by Krakauer I've read and it's one that will stay with me forever. Not necessarily in a good way though ; my religious tolerance has been severely put to the test. This was a sobering read about the (F)LDS, but it could have been any organized religion.


Greta G Jenna wrote: "This looks like an interesting book.

As for what you wrote above, "I wonder how many (religious) Americans aren't worried about getting the corona virus because they think God will protect them" ..."


I feel your frustration, Jenna.
Whoever still trusts delusional Trump at this point, or thinks that God will protect them from getting corona, must be completely out of his mind.
In which city/state do you live, Jenna?

America is a great country in many ways, but I'm really sorry to say that I look at it in disbelief right now, and that is mainly thanks to Trump and his supporters.

The book was interesting, Jenna. Yet sometimes it was hard for me to pick up the book to continue reading, because there was so much detailed information on the history of mormonism. I learned much more about crazy prophets and divine revelations than I care to know! :)


Numidica Greta, my favorite book by Krakauer is Into Thin Air, though I also enjoyed Into the Wild and Under the Banner of Heaven. Into Thin Air was quite a page turner; you might like it. The Mormons are quite an enigma, I agree, though no more than most other organized religions, I suppose. We are simply closer in time to the foundation of the religion, and thus we are more easily able to see the hucksterism of the founders via extant documentation. Krakauer did a good job of documenting the hypocrisy and deceptions of the founders.


message 19: by Greta G (last edited Aug 26, 2020 02:55PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Greta G Numidica wrote: "Greta, my favorite book by Krakauer is Into Thin Air, though I also enjoyed Into the Wild and Under the Banner of Heaven. Into Thin Air was quite a page turner; you might like it. The Mormons are q..."

Hi Numidica. I don't know exactly why I didn't read Into Thin Air: A Personal Account of the Mount Everest Disaster first, since I already bought that book years ago.

I think I just wanted to know more about Mormonism, a religion I knew very little about. This religion hasn't been very successful in my country nor in the rest of Europe (with a few exceptions, I believe).
You are right, the fact that the origin and history of this religion have been documented, makes it quite eye-opening, and I agree that you can probably extrapolate a lot of this to other religions. While reading the book, I couldn't help thinking 'Oh my God, is this sort of crap really what defines most people's lives?'
I don't think any other book could succeed in making me feel more skeptical about religions than this book did.


Elyse✨ Your logic is interesting and convincing. I gave this book five stars because it was so mind blowing.


message 21: by Jenna (new)

Jenna ❤ ❀  ❤ Such an interesting review, Greta, and you had me going in the beginning! I knew it couldn't be real but at the same time was wanting to start packing my bags for Iceland 🤣

I think your review of "The Hiding Place" might have some competition with this one..... or maybe not. Fundamentalists probably won't be picking this book up any time soon so perhaps they won't see your review. I can just imagine the proud sense of martyrdom that would fill their comments!

I love the questions you raise.... "How can a society actively promote religious faith on one hand and condemn a man for zealously adhering to his faith on the other?”

Such food for thought.


message 22: by Max (new)

Max Great review, Greta. You grabbed my attention and kept it.


message 23: by [deleted user] (new)

Howling primates lurching into the abyss.


message 24: by Ned (new) - added it

Ned Great review!


message 25: by Fionnuala (new)

Fionnuala Love the way you opened your review, Greta—and I can see that the whole thing inspired a very interesting comment thread!


Greta G Elyse wrote: "Your logic is interesting and convincing. I gave this book five stars because it was so mind blowing."

Thanks Elyse. I agree with you on the mind-blowing part, but there were also (historical) parts in the book that could barely hold my attention. I think the book will appeal more to American than to non-American readers.


message 27: by Greta G (last edited Sep 07, 2020 05:55AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Greta G Jenna wrote: "Such an interesting review, Greta, and you had me going in the beginning! I knew it couldn't be real but at the same time was wanting to start packing my bags for Iceland 🤣

I think your review of ..."


😁 If it weren't for the cold climate in Iceland, I would have packed my bags too, Jenna. Iceland officially supports the Evangelical Lutheran Church, so it turns out that it isn't a secular paradise after all .

I also doubt that Evangelicals will be interested much in this book. Everything that distracts them from their Path of Righteousness seems to be a NO GO.

The chapter about determining whether Ron Lafferty was insane or not, was in my opinion the most interesting part in the book. There's a thin line between sanity and insanity, but in the context of religion, this line is blurred altogether.


Greta G Max wrote: "Great review, Greta. You grabbed my attention and kept it."

Thank you for such kind words Max.


Greta G Peter (Pete) wrote: "Howling primates lurching into the abyss."

From their (fundamentalist) point of view, I guess that would be us.


Greta G Ned wrote: "Great review!"

Thank you Ned


Greta G Fionnuala wrote: "Love the way you opened your review, Greta—and I can see that the whole thing inspired a very interesting comment thread!"

Thanks Fionnuala. Never in a million years did I think I would be discussing religion, let alone Mormonism.


message 32: by Caroline (last edited Sep 08, 2020 07:42AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Caroline Gosh, what an amazing review. You certainly had me sitting up in my chair! Loved the way you used the story of Iceland as a backdrop. So much to think about - and thank you for that.


message 33: by Beata (new)

Beata A story hard to believe ... Fine review, Greta :))


Greta G Caroline wrote: "Gosh, what an amazing review. You certainly had me sitting up in my chair! Loved the way you used the story of Iceland as a backdrop. So much to think about - and thank you for that."

I'm glad you liked it Caroline, thank you. I heard about this hoax at exactly the right moment and it was easy enough to find it on the internet.


Greta G Beata wrote: "A story hard to believe ... Fine review, Greta :))"

Thank you Beata. I appreciate it.


Mikey B. Unique review Greta

I was believing you on Iceland - and was ready to book my flight!!!


Greta G Mikey B. wrote: "Unique review Greta

I was believing you on Iceland - and was ready to book my flight!!!"


Perhaps it was only wishful thinking on your part :)
Thank you Mikey.


Petra It's a year now, still in a dark place That was a good read. I'd live in Iceland despite the climate if it was really like that.


Greta G Petra X needs new friends after pruning the FrList wrote: "That was a good read. I'd live in Iceland despite the climate if it was really like that."

Hello Petra. That would certainly be worth serious consideration.


message 40: by Shankar (new)

Shankar Religions are mental disorders…. What a review …. Sounds a shocker


Greta G Shankar wrote: "Religions are mental disorders…. What a review …. Sounds a shocker"

I guess that anyone who reads the book will feel distressed at some point. But then again it's not only overly zealous adherence to religious ideas and prophets that can lead to atrocities.


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