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mark monday's Reviews > Leviathan Wakes
Leviathan Wakes (Expanse, #1)
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EH? EH! this so-called space opera is anything but. no sense of wonder, no sense of truly divergent civilizations, no galactic span. and a clear lack of operatic emotions on display as well. perhaps this is due to the characterization, which is rote, uninteresting, and badly developed, with sub-par Firefly-style dialogue along for the ride. perhaps it is also due to the subject matter, which is confined to purely in-system politics between Earth and Mars (the two reigning superpowers) and the asteroid colonies (plucky upstarts, proletariat underdogs, and possible terrorists)... the scope here just seems so EH WHO CARES. there is a nuts-and-bolts approach to the technology that has a glimmer of hard science to it, but this is not a hard science fiction novel by far. overall, it is not terribly written per se - it just is the very definition of flat and uninspiring. maybe i've been too spoiled by the likes of Iain M. Banks, Vernor Vinge, Peter Hamilton, and now Alastair Reynolds; i am unable to be impressed by something that is so lacking in genuine excitement or genuinely complex world-building. there was nothing at stake for me and my mind was definitely not blown. each time i re-opened this novel, it was like buying a first class ticket to snoozeville. in the end, i gave up on page 162 - and i want those hours back!
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Reading Progress
Finished Reading
September 21, 2011
– Shelved
September 24, 2011
– Shelved as:
i-gave-up
April 29, 2012
– Shelved as:
scifi-modern
Comments Showing 1-50 of 153 (153 new)
message 1:
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Brad
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Sep 26, 2011 08:33AM
Whoa! Yours is the first voice against Leviathan Wakes that I've read, mark. But also the one I trust most of those I've read. I wasn't convinced about reading this in the first place, but now you've placed a major impediment up for me. Cool. You saved me some bucks.
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i'm really surprised at the overwhelming acclaim at this novel. spend those hard-earned dollars on something good!
Eh! Sorry you didn't like this! I did, very much, but I don't have much actual sci-fi background.
Eh? alas, i am in a very distinct minority.what really got to me the most was the wannabe breezy dialogue. i said This Is The Last Straw about a dozen times at various groaners. and finally it was actually the last straw.
i thought the dialogue was fun. but moreover, i liked this book because of the small scale. i appreciated a "space epic" that was more realistic in scope. also i find the endless zaniness of reynolds (who by the by writes absolutely atrocious dialogue) and banks and their overlong books so tiresome, even though i am more or less positive on them as writers overall.also it was nice that the characters, while certainly archetypal to a point, were fun to read about and not all amoral rapists and murderers.
i also thought the world-building was perfect, in that new and unusual technologies and cultural histories were introduced gradually in a way that never left me feeling confused. what is "complex world-building"? does that mean you have to read 300 pages before you know what is happening?
i thought the world-building was an issue. the different cultures felt rote and simplistic to me - and i didn't get a sense of genuine difference, other than the obvious physical differences. i also thought the characterization was uninspiring, predictable and just blah overall.but my main problem was the dialogue. HATED IT! i did not think it was fun.
although i agree that Reynolds does write some pretty bad dialogue at times (at least from reading Revelation Space), i can be easily distracted away by that due to the amazing world-building that is happening all around that annoying dialogue.
i think we may just have to disagree about long, long books filled with zany hijinks - i often love them. i can have a lot of patience for epics, particularly if the ideas and world-building are intriguing enough to carry me through.
i thought the fact that belters had entirely different non-verbal gestures because of wearing spacesuits, and the observation that people from a planet would show their otherness by, say, a shrug that would be invivible in space, to be an example of the kind of excellent, subtle world-building i actually like.
i actually thought that was interesting the first time it was mentioned - but then that shrug is noted like a half dozen more times! i thought there was more needed than that, a lot more. Different bodies, resentment towards the planets, and a new kind of shrug just wasn't enough for me to see them as being as differet as the author wanted them to be. or who knows, maybe that's what the author intended.i'm actually a wee bit frustrated that i didn't read more than i did, because now i've noticed in reviews that apparently there was some zombie action. i'm sad i missed out on that. ah well, it was sent off via BookSwap.
you didn't read all of it? WELL THEN YOUR OPINION DOESN'T MATTER.
ha! we are enjoying the same comments from a certain review thread. BUT IT DOES MATTER IT DOES MATTER IT DOES MATTER IT DOES MATTER!have you read the comments on Keely's A Game of Thrones' review? hours and hours of entertainment, the fun literally never ends.
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
although now that i think about it, you may find that comment thread to be a bit zany and overlong.
i read some of it. not so much when it turned into an epic-length redundant flamewar. i had to stop subscribing to the updates actually.
happily, Keely has his defenders as well as his angry flamers. i'm always impressed by how he (and Ian on his Name of the Wind review) manage to remain thoughtful and responsive, no matter the level of comment made. i'm a bit jealous of their patience. the rare times i've been flamed, i usually just delete the comment if it is offensive and move on to more positive matters.
oh, don't get me wrong, i find both sides of that thread tiresome. ;)
mark wrote: "ha! we are enjoying the same comments from a certain review thread. "I could use some entertainment, which review is that?
a review of Name of the Wind by an excellent reviewer, Ian Foster.http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
enjoy!
although if you are a Name of the Wind fan (as i am, shamelessly), at times you may have to do some kind of internet version of putting your hands over your ears and chanting LALALALALA NOT LISTENING LALALALALAL. you've been duly warned!
talk about a book that i found rote, uninteresting and badly developed.
oh, joel! our tastes in books are like two ship passing in the night. so close yet, at times, oh so distant.
Joel wrote: "you didn't read all of it? WELL THEN YOUR OPINION DOESN'T MATTER."
Hahaha.
Yeah, this isn't very, what, zany? Compared to Banks, et al. More like Stross or Scalzi. I dig that, but yeah.
Hahaha.
Yeah, this isn't very, what, zany? Compared to Banks, et al. More like Stross or Scalzi. I dig that, but yeah.
Ha! Name of the Wind is to me what this book seems to you. I don't get all the fuss! I'm convinced I have to reread it, maybe it just wasn't the right time?
i think the thing with Name of the Wind is that you'll only like it if you respond to Kvothe (i did). if not, i can imagine the experience being frustrating and just sorta tiring & eye-rolling.
who wouldn't respond to kvothe? he is good at all the things and excellent at sex with ninjas!SARCASM
Joel, you Troll! look, a rhyme. leave poor Kvothe alone, it is a heavy burden being awesome at all things. i really empathize with the guy. believe me, it's tough.
people, have you even read what the authors have said about the novel? that most SO are set either in the distant future in the stars with alien civilizations or on eart but with many new technologies. The Expanse series covers the missing link between those two. Plus, fuck wonder next to realistic space battles anyday. And what's really interesting is how they describe the problems the humans bring with them and which I'm sure will be explored more in further books. I can't wait to see how they will portray first contact with the creators of the protomolecule.
actually, i have not read what the authors said about the novel. that's interesting, and helps with my irritation at this novel being considered a 'space opera'. although a reader shouldn't have to read an author's comments to enjoy a book. and it doesn't help me with my complaints about characterization & dialogue.
I agree that characterization is archetypal and at times trite, but I still liked Miller a lot, he's the right archetype in this case, and I many times wanted to smack Holden one. I mean, the dude's just plain irritating at times.
And yeah, I admit dialogue was really stale as a whole, It wasn't bad per se, but compare this dialogue with the one from The First Law or ASOIAF.
That's funny; I felt completely opposite about Miller and the Holden one. Or I started with liking Miller's character and disliking Holden's, and then this switched by the end. I thought some things about the third act having to do with Miller were way annoying.
compare this dialogue with the one from The First Law or ASOIAFdefinitely agree!
yeah i'm at page 156 right now......and while nothing about the book is bad, it's just very "eh..."
I just finished the book, I did a lot of skimming. It was so wordy, you could read every third page and not lose any story. I'm with you, I like hard sci fi. This was drama, long and drawn out. The writer(s) just don't have the talent to draw you in. I have a stack of new Skalzi, Card and Niven to get into. I need to get some good stuff back into me.
I am struggling with this book since June. I am way too much in to give it up now. :(
you are a stronger person that me, Veeral!
No Mark. I am a victim of the circumstances. I have crossed the point of no return!
I loved the book. Personally, I think a lot of 'space operas' tend to be way too similar in that they all focus around massive ships cruising through massive space around massive planets and blah blah, I persoanlly loved that Leviathan Wakes chose not to copy this, instead going for a much more HUMAN flavour. Sure, it's in the future. Sure, there are spaceships, space travel, laser guns and aliens. But you know what the characters say? "Same shit. Different day." And it's beautiful, because it's right on the money. People aren't going to change, two years, two hundred years in the future. So there's realism. The characterization was great.
Veeral, please see Matthew's comments! i think they may help... unfortunately it is too late for me because my copy is gone gone gone. i have also been led to believe that because i stopped where i did, i entirely missed out on the zombies in space. sigh. impatient me!
Matthew wrote: "I loved the book. Personally, I think a lot of 'space operas' tend to be way too similar in that they all focus around massive ships cruising through massive space around massive planets and blah b..."i must admit that i am a sucker for all of that!
:::pat pat pat:::
It's okay. You were wearing your cranky pants the day you tried to read this. It happens to us all.
It's okay. You were wearing your cranky pants the day you tried to read this. It happens to us all.
mark wrote: "Veeral, please see Matthew's comments! i think they may help... unfortunately it is too late for me because my copy is gone gone gone. i have also been led to believe that because i stopped where i..."I am afraid it is too late for me too, Mark. My copy is also gone! And despite my pompous claims, I couldn't finish it either.
Well, if I can remember the plot, I would try to read it some other time from where I left it.
I've finished the second book and it leaves you on such a massive cliff hanger. Waiting for the third will kill me.
What was the cliffhanger? I read it two months ago, but I forgot. :D And the second book, while interesting, I found somehow less engaging than the first. It was still a pretty good read though. But Corey can't write political intrigue it seems...
If anyone still cares about this review thread, I also loved the book BECAUSE of the small scale, not in spite of it. Too often sci-fi is set on too grand a scale. The thing that stuck out to me about Leviathan is that each of the colonies/planets/what-have-you is self-governed, something you also don't see very often; no United Earth Forces or Terran Alliance or any such bullshit. In addition, I always love sci-fi that deals with the tedious every-day jobs of people living in space, a-la Firefly and Planetes, although Leviathan does head into a much more grandiose story fairly quickly.
i get what you are saying. i did enjoy the small scale, everyday-job elements of The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. my reaction to the lack of a grand scale was from how this book has been marketed: as a "space opera". which i really do not think it is. that label is everywhere, including - if i recall correctly - on a blurb on the back or front cover.however, equally problematic to me was the rote characterization and the sub-par attempt at Firefly-like dialogue.
Eh, I didn't get the feeling that it was trying to emulate Firefly with its dialogue, sub-par or otherwise. The characterisation was natural and well done, in my opinion.
The author in general always seems to produce quite humane characters. I've read through his other series "The Dragon's Path" in Daniel Abraham's name, I think, and I loved it. A lot of authors tend to make all the charatcers say much the same thing, EVERYONE is snarky and "cool" with "badass quips" etc. I feel it just makes the entire novel sound like one persona exploring their own schizophrenia.
(Plus, I REALLY loved the book covers for this series. Badass pastel, it reminded me, somehow, of Cowboy Bebop. Any connection to that show is a positive value.)
Matthew wrote: "The author in general always seems to produce quite humane characters. I've read through his other series "The Dragon's Path" in Daniel Abraham's name, I think, and I loved it...."i have read so many good things about the author's first series, the name of which now escapes me. i plan on reading it someday. hopefully i won't have the same problems with it.
