Emma's Reviews > Allegiant

I agree with you on the pointlessness of her death. There's a difference between sacrifice and suicide -- Tris seemed to refuse to learn this.

exactly. sure, roth has every right to have tris hit by a bus or something. but what is the POINT in the larger scheme of the trilogy? THAT is what is upsetting to me. not her actual death.

Me too. I agree with you on the bus. I would actually prefer it be something like that -- random, senseless, tragic. Because that's life, right? But I just can't deal with the fact that she went out of her way to put herself in the position to get killed, for no real reason. That's not selfless OR brave; that's just being a dumbass. Couldn't Roth have Tris just push someone out of the way of a sudden gunman or something? That's selfless but without the added stupidity of having time to think about the fact that you're going to die and still do it anyway. I'm very sad about this. And I haven't even read it yet!

omg, you haven't read the book?? eek, i hope i'm not the one that spoiled you!

No, don't worry, I was spoiled rather unceremoniously by some delightful person who is going around posting a direct quote that gives away Tris's fate in the comments sections of random articles that have absolutely nothing to do with Divergent. Since I already had it ruined, I threw my hands up and caved on reading some of the reviews.

wow, that sucks. well, like i said. it's not a BAD book. if you've already read the first two and know the ending of this one, i wouldn't say it's a waste of time reading it. however, for those that haven't read any of the books yet.. i wouldn't recommend that they start. if that makes sense.

It totally makes sense. I was actually going to recommend to a friend to start reading the series, but now I'm not sure. I really think he should read Divergent, just because the first book is so awesome, but if he needs to know How It All Ends, then I might suggest that he not bother.

I don't so much mind that Tris ended up dead in the end -- it's bold, it's edgy, and it's obviously sad, and a sad ending can be just as powerful as a beautiful happy ending -- but the way this death came about was just so unnecessary and pointless. It has no resonance and makes the character look bad for making such a dumb and pointless choice.

tracey, lauren, patches - thanks! before allegiant came out, i convinced four of my friends to start the series and they were literally about to begin this week.. but then i told them all to STOP after i read allegiant. i don't want them to go through the same thing i did!

just read a fantastic review.. look for bleuwrites on tumblr!

also, have been keeping an eye on the goodreads rating of this book.. it is steadily going DOWN. (4.46 a couple hours ago.. 4.39 now.. 4.2 by tomorrow morning?)

You know, I teared up at exactly the same spot. Gutted.

dont give this book low rating just because of the ending. Overall it is a great book!

and may I add that Tris didn't exactly went for suicide. She believed she could survive the death serum, and she did. It was David who killed her which no one saw coming.

Thanks, Tahreem. I agree. That's one of the two elements that made the ending work: She knew it was a probability that she would die, they all said that no one can survive the serum, but she still had (inexplicable) faith that she could survive. She wasn't resigned to her death. She had hope. She was determined to live. Not the same as when she went to Erudite in the previous book -- she was going then because she knew she would die and she gladly accepted it because she was just tired of it all. And that's what Caleb was doing now.

tahreem, i did give this book a low rating bc of the ending. i loved the first two books, but honestly they were not great literary works. i mean, i am not a huge reader, but i can see that roth is an immature writer (how many times does she mention grabbing the hem of a shirt for godsakes.. or biting a lip.. and is it a coincidence that EVERYONE bites their nails? where was the editor for that??). BUT, i totally forgave her for those little quirks bc i loved the story and the characters and the plot was fun.

i read books for entertainment and this series (thus-far) had fulfilled that duty quite well. however, this last book had pacing issues, the pov switches were annoying and the deaths were overboard. i could have forgiven it all again if the ending had been satisfying. but it wasn't (to me). it felt cheap and i felt cheated. having said all that, i did fairly give this book 2 stars and not 1 star. there were parts that i enjoyed and i admit that roth has talent. i just did not like this last book overall and there was little contained in it that was redeeming (to me). i stand by my rating.

Yes, I rated the book only three stars because there were many things in the writing that I found disappointing. Most writers have a habit of repeating themselves, and things like continually being told what sounds people's feet are making when they hit the floor, etc, should have been picked up and removed by a good editor. I'd say that they either were in such a hurry to get the book out that they didn't give it a good enough edit, or that they knew the book was going to make a bundle anyway so they didn't bother with any kind of edit. Unfortunately, that happens when authors start to do well. People stop telling them what's wrong with their book because they know it will make money regardless. Those problems should have been dealt with in the editing process.

I agree with you on every point. The ending was awful for everyone. Marcus and Evelyn get to live but Tris dies and Tobias is alone. It's like a betrayal.

Tracy wrote: "I agree with you on every point. The ending was awful for everyone. Marcus and Evelyn get to live but Tris dies and Tobias is alone. It's like a betrayal."

"A fire that bright doesn't last." Enough said.

Tahreem wrote: "A fire that bright doesn't last." Enough said.

that's a cop out. it may give readers (and tobias) comfort to think that tris was too *special* to grace this planet for too long, but what if she had lived? what if david wasn't in that room to shoot her and tris ended up marrying tobias and living to a ripe old age? does that mean her fire wasn't bright? i dislike that line and everything it implies.

now that i think about it.. why wasn't there any reconnaissance placed on david or on that room for that matter? wouldn't you think that any human of average intelligence would scope the place out and keep an eye out on the leader of it all?

I know I changed my mind about hating the ending, because I really don't hate it, but there was something nagging at the back of my mind just the same. Something that was bugging me about it, and I think I figured it out, and it's probably what's kept most people from accepting this ending. Here is what I wrote on Amazon:

"Just a little while ago it dawned on me a little exactly what was missing, what was not done quite right, that would otherwise have made more people accept her death. It's the aftermath and the explanation of how things changed after the Bureau's agenda was turned upside down. Veronica gives a brief "so this is what happened to the Bureau and the experiment" explanation, but thinking on it I think she should have expanded it more, even if it meant a whole extra chapter. We should have seen more about exactly how having the Bureau people's memories wiped and rewritten changed everything, we should have seen the steps to shut the experiment down, to "free" everyone from this oppression, and how the first seeds of GD/GP equality were sown in the wake of this move. We needed to spend at least one chapter after her death to see directly, in real time, how everything would change now that the Bureau had been changed, how Tris's death set in motion the winds of this change, to paint a clearer picture of how her sacrifice really saved everyone. I mean, I can pick that out of the final chapters just fine myself, but I think it would have been better if it had been revealed as more than just a couple of paragraphs of Tobias's narration as he summarizes what happened. We should have spent more time on it, maybe actually witnessed the Bureau workers change, seen the first meetings where they shut down the Chicago experiment and decided to push for equality. We needed to see the hope and the promise of positive change that arised after Tris died. That's where Veronica failed, I think. Not by having Tris die, and not for the reasons she died, but by not showing the impact that the mission she died for -- changing the Bureau's memories --- had on everything. I think that would have provided the "hope" that people say they wanted to have in the story's ending."

lauren, that's a good point. but the more i think about this the book, the more things bother me. i can't even list it on here it's too long. but you're right. explaining the aftermath would have at least helped to put some closure to this story. to show that there is a point to the journey we endured through these 3 books. not just the love story. because right now, all i can remember about this book is the love story. and that story is disappointing. not beautiful and tragic. just tragic.

That is a good point, Lauren. Yes, it's like Tris' death made everything pale into such insignificance that it wasn't even mentioned. Now, since those chapters are from Tobias' POV, that might be an explanation, as he would have cared more about Tris' loss than any of the other things that were happening. But I think it still needed to be mentioned, especially in the chapter that took place a couple of years after she died. Tobias should have been able to process it better then.

rating is now at 4.01.. hate to admit some schadenfreude that it will probably hit below 4.0 by tomorrow

I can't understand what made Roth think on killing people and Edith prior lying. She got me a bit hooked on the first two books, she was filling out the characters and here it just seemed her characters were pretty much lame in an all out internal conflict going on throughout the book. She couldn't bring out ANYTHING intense. Even The death was something like - OK FINE PRETTY FEEBLE WHAT NEXT'
This book can be read by authors if they want to know how not to construct a plot!!

Hey, guys, check out Veronica's blog where she explains the ending and how she planned the story to be this way all along:

http://veronicarothbooks.blogspot.com...

That's an interesting read, but as she herself says in the article, there's still the argument that her vision for the book is poorly executed, and I think it is.

Indeed. Most of her explanations, I was able to glean myself, but I don't quite appreciate the idea that only once Tris finally understood the true meaning of sacrifice, that was when she earned her true sacrificial death.

I think if this is what Veronica had been writing toward this entire time, then I think she needs to return her creative writing degree to Northwestern because she did a really awful job of putting her vision to the page. Quite simply, if her point made any sense or was able to be understood, the majority reaction wouldn't be the way it is. The only detractors would have been the petty "I wanted a happy ending, dammit!" people. And honestly I don't know if I even like what her point was. I think this explanation, more than anything, more than the ending, more than the ridiculous explanation about the factions and the outside world, makes me look at the whole series in a different way -- and not in a good way.

And to that grand and apparently distopian plot I could only say 'eh Tris ok' umm and death fumes and gun shots ok and the new bureau the same as old um ok! But really there's nothing philosophically romantic or read worthy about it!!
@Roth: why?

The thing with authors and writing is that it is always a learning experience. Authors learn best by writing books. It is not unusual for an author's first few books or series to be a little dodgy or rough because they're still learning how it all works. Unfortunately, these novels have had a wide audience and that has meant that the problems with the third book are seen globally. The ending hasn't helped in this, because I think most people might have shrugged off some of the problems if they got their HEA.

Happy, sad, the entire city gets blown to smithereens -- I'm fine with either as long as it made sense.

thanks for the link, lauren! while i appreciate that roth respects her fans enough to try and explain why she wrote the ending as she did, i still do not find her argument compelling. it only reinforces the fact that she had a certain ending in mind and forced the story into that mold no matter what.

i don't think this is what she meant, but what it SOUNDS like roth is saying is that tris's life goal is to die in a selfless way. roth's arguments about the other "selfless acts" in previous books actually being destructive and not actually selfless are a little weak in my opinion.

but my biggest problem is with roth's apparently proudest moment -- when tris says "am i done yet?" this seems to imply that she is okay with dying now when she wasn't at the end of insurgent. just because she believes this time it is for a noble reason, she is ready to just go? asking "am i done yet" implies that she WANTS it to be done. i don't think that is tris's character. i think tris would fight until the end for life. for tobias. that she would have to be dragged to death kicking and screaming.

i've since cooled down in the 10 days since i wrote my initial review. i am not devastated any longer. but i am still very disappointed with this book. at what it could have been.

Yes, I worry that choosing death as the option means that it can be seen as the only way to be truly selfless. While there's no doubt that giving your life for someone you love is the ultimate in selflessness, focussing on it tends to play down other selfless choices.

Yes, I had a problem with that line too. I can see, after reading the article, that VR was paralleling it to what Tris had said near the end of Insurgent. However, it still implies that Tris wanted to go, in spite of the fact that she just told Caleb to tell Tobias that she didn't want to leave him.

Every aspect of your review sums up my feelings EXACTLY!

Emma, you and I have discussed this a lot, I just want to say your review really is spot on

and I want to take it a step further, it was 4.74 when I finished the book, now it is 3.91 not bad, but not great either

thanks, jennifer =) i realized yesterday that although i had commented on your review, i forgot to like it!

and yes, it is really interesting how quickly the rating has dropped. i'm curious about where it will land. i'm guessing around 3.0?

well I know we have talked on multiple reviews, but then I saw the discussion on this one and I was like so many people agree with us.

yeah I suspect it will be down to 3.0, plus when the movie comes out it will cause another surge of people reading the book... and it will likely drop again... IMO

Yeah, I'm thinking of moving my own rating from three down to two. The more I think about the overall story, the more I realise it doesn't work.

glad I'm not feeling alone on this one. I love the "love story" glimpses of the first two. I never felt overwhelmed by it. but tris dying and the ending overpowered well... everything. yet I still feel horribly sad.......

I used to be fricken obsessed with this series then I found out they were making a movie and was I'm done with this. Then I saw allegiant was out and said all right I will read it for the heck of it. I seriously wish I wouldn't. I fucking cried. Like after she died I stopped reading and literally threw my kindle and said I'm done. I fucking hate Veronica Roth.

This review was everything that I felt about the ending of the book. Hate it hate it hate it

I totally cried when Tris died. I hate that part. It didn't ruin it for me, but ugh. :(

I agree with a lot of what is being said here but just wanted to respond to Lauren about the aditional explanations needed. That is one of the drawbacks of first person POV. There was no way to show what was happening in the compound and still show Tobias' complete state of shock. He was beyond caring or knowing what was going on around him. I just thought the whole part about them all splitting up when such an important plan was in the works was unrealistic and contrived.

I agree, Judy. Why do they all need to go to inoculate the ones left in Chicago, especially if their aim is to stop them all receiving the memory serum anyway? It would have seemed better to stay and help with that. Of course, VR couldn't do that, though, because if Tobias was there, he would have stopped Tris replacing Caleb, or would have gone with her into the room, thereby either killing him too or saving her, or both.

I agree, Judy. Why do they all need to go to inoculate the ones left in Chicago, especially if their aim is to stop them all receiving the memory serum anyway? It would have seemed better to stay and help with that. Of course, VR couldn't do that, though, because if Tobias was there, he would have stopped Tris replacing Caleb, or would have gone with her into the room, thereby either killing him too or saving her, or both.

"That is one of the drawbacks of first person POV. There was no way to show what was happening in the compound and still show Tobias' complete state of shock. He was beyond caring or knowing what was going on around him. "

I thought about that, but really, I can literally think of 17 different ways these details could have been inserted into those chapters in the middle of Tobias's numbness and shock anyway.

Just finished the book....so upsetting!!!! After Tris was rescued from the Erudite compound she found out that she didn't really want to die after all. She had found that there was so much reason to live. I really thought the character Roth created in the first two books would finally fight for her life in the third book. Her willingness to die so easily in earlier books was somewhat selfish and She realized that. So not only am I upset that she died, I'm also upset that she was so WILLING to crossover into the "afterlife". She was eager to join her parents there, but not eager enough to fight to stay with the people she loved here? It doesn't make sense to me.

You said it, Melissa.

you know what i didn't catch on my first read? (yes, i read it again.. well, listened via audiobook) right before tris enters the weapons lab and meets david, this happened: "I am dimly aware that I left my own gun in the hallway behind me, sure I wouldn’t need it if I made it this far."

1. REALLY?!; 2. if tobias were with her, he would NOT have left his gun. ugh.

Killing both would have been better in that case!!