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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) ミラP 01:21, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

David Chilton

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No evidence of significant coverage by reliable third party sources. Niteshift36 (talk) 12:29, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Weak keep. One book, Michael J. McVicar (27 April 2015). Christian Reconstruction: R. J. Rushdoony and American Religious Conservatism. University of North Carolina Press. pp. 217–. ISBN 978-1-4696-2275-0., mentions him in passing a number of times, and calls him a promising theologian: , but that doesn't constitute significant coverage. However,Tim F. LaHaye; Thomas Ice (2003). The End Times Controversy. Harvest House Publishers. pp. 60–. ISBN 978-0-7369-0953-2. contains one and a half page dedicated to him, and that is something. Add to it the few mentions in passing I see out there, and this is borderline, but might merit keeping. Not seeing any more sources, however, so this may be all we have to work with (well, I wouldn't be surprised if some of his books got some reviews in obscure academic journals, but that wouldn't count for much anyway, as notability is not inherited). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:45, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I struggle with the idea of a dedication in a non-notable book being significant coverage. LaHayne is notable and has written notable books. This wasn't one of them. Further, reviews of his books may make a case for the book being notable, but that doesn't always translate to the author. Niteshift36 (talk) 12:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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criteria 4c "won significant critical attention" Atlantic306 (talk) 15:10, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Jitters (band). Consensus is that the article is not notable. Redirecting to the band's article per comments citing NALBUM. ST47 (talk) 19:12, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Promo Disk 2005

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Couple of very brief blurbs in Muzykalnaya Gazeta, other than that, no significant coverage. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NALBUM. Onel5969 TT me 14:27, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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References

  1. ^ "«За месяц до релиза прислали "OK Computer"». Читатели и создатели вспоминают «Музыкальную газету»" [«A month before the release, they sent “OK Computer.” ”Readers and creators recall the “Muzykalnaya Gazeta”»] (in Russian). citydog.by. 2016-03-10. Archived from the original on 2019-05-18. Retrieved 2019-05-18.
  2. ^ shakal.today (2017). "«Хроники «Нестора». Анонс книги!" [“The Chronicles of Nestor.” The announcement of the book!] (in Russian). Шакал.Тудэй. Archived from the original on 2019-05-18. Retrieved 2019-05-18.
  3. ^ Климов, Олег (2010-11-08). "Олег Климов: «Угадай мелодию»" [Oleg Klimov: “Guess the melody”]. Sovetskaya Belorussiya – Belarus' Segodnya (in Russian). Experty.by. Retrieved 2019-05-18.
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The result was delete. MBisanz talk 03:42, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Alexander Karley

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No indication of satisfying WP:MILPERSON or WP:ANYBIO. Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:19, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) ミラP 01:23, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Assured Compliance Assessment Solution

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There's no coverage of this suggesting it would be notable and there's no reason it would be. The US Department of Defense licenses a small package of cybersecurity products that it makes available for use by its computer network operations, and refers to them internally as the "Assured Compliance Assessment Solution". It's explained here. It's just an internal name for this internally downloadable suite of retail products. Largoplazo (talk) 20:54, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Reference 1 smells very much like Segue Technologies suggesting that it can offer auxiliary services to organizations in the military wanting to implement ACAS. Advertising.
  • Reference 2 is to a website sponsored by the manufacturer of the software that currently constitutes ACAS, essentially an advertisement, not coverage by an independent source.
  • Reference 3 is from Business Wire, so it's already given that it's a press release. In this case, it's a press release by the manufacturer, Tenable. Not an independent source.
  • The sole mention of ACAS in Reference 4 is in the caption to a photo, identifying the subject of the photo. Not significant coverage of this topic.
  • Reference 5 is DISA, the organization that supplies ACAS to military users, supplying ACAS to military users. Not an independent source.
  • Reference 6 is by the US Army, another instance of the military communicating to its members about its own offering. Not an independent source.
  • Reference 7 alone appears to contribute to WP:GNG.
Largoplazo (talk) 01:10, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly disagree with your dismissal of refs 5 and 6: these are official statements published by the Federal government and, as such, are certainly reliable sources. To say they are not "independent" is akin to saying the National Park Service and U.S. Geological Survey are not "independent" of, say, their extensive use as refs in Yellowstone National Park, a FA.  JGHowes  talk 01:53, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You're confusing verifiably and notably. An NPS publication can be a good source to back up assertions about Yellowstone but has no role in establishing its notability under WP:GNG. If my company's IT department has built a system for recording time worked called TimeWatch that all employees are to use, then an announcement of the release of the product by the CEO, instructions and rules from the HR department for using TimeWatch, and an article highlighting TimeWatch in the internal company newsletter produced by the Communications department are reliable sources for information about TimeWatch, but they aren't independent sources establishing the notability of it. Largoplazo (talk) 07:20, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We have different opinions about what constitutes notability. In my view, an infosec program that is mandated by the Department of Defense, the U.S. largest employer, is notable on its face and has reference value for the reader.  JGHowes  talk 14:13, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My opinion is based on Wikipedia's guidelines. Wikipedia supplies no guideline for finding a topic notable based on an arbitrary set of characteristics that seem to make it so on its face. The whole point of WP:GNG is that if independent sources haven't taken note of something, it isn't for us to declare it worthy of note. Right now it appears to be an internal US military detail that's obscure to the rest of the world. Largoplazo (talk) 14:45, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Passes WP:GNG. Being military specific and "obscure to the rest of the world" is not, in and of itself, a reason to exclude Wikipedia content. ACAS is the tool suite specified in USCYBERCOM TASKORD 17-0019, Scanning and Remediation. It is significant in the DoD and elsewhere in the federal government. I feel it has merit and should be retained. I'm not a Wiki editor, but as a longtime ACAS user, military auditor, and expert on Risk_management_framework. Jeremycec —Preceding undated comment added 14:49, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Re "being ... obscure to the rest of the world ... is not, in and of itself, a reason to exclude Wikipedia content": On the contrary: it's the very essence of the Wikipedia:Notability policy with which every article topic must comply, and resonates throughout this project's guidelines on that topic.
That software's users use it and even its actual importance don't make it notable under Wikipedia's definition of that word, which differs from its ordinary usage. "NotED" would be closer. Largoplazo (talk) 16:38, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Passes WP:GNG. My university library system pulled up 29 published references on this topis. Here is a small selection of sources:
  1. "Tenable Network Security Selected for DISA Assured Compliance Assessment Solution", Professional Services Close - Up, Apr 29, 2012 ("Agency (DISA) as the Assured Compliance Assessment Solution (ACAS). In a release on April 23, the company said tenable products will be available to the...")
  2. "Cybersecurity Software protects data across multiple platforms.(SAIC Introduces CyberSecurity Edge(TM))", Product News Network, Sept 3, 2014 ("Security's Assured Compliance Assessment Solution for the Defense Information Systems Agency -- Operation of multiple security operations centers...")
  3. "Defense Information Systems Agency Selects HP to Assess Networks for Vulnerabilities", Wireless News, April 25, 2012 ("terms of the contract, the Assured Compliance Assessment Solution will be available for implementation across the DoD as the compliance solution. HP will")
  4. "Department of Defense Selects Tenable Network Security", Wireless News, Oct 10, 2011, ("Tenable Network Security, a provider of Unified Security Monitoring, announced that it has been selected for the Department of Defense Assured Compliance Assessment Solution...")
  5. "DoD Cyber IA Range open and ready for customers", Gaudreau, Neil ; Combs, Jeffrey, CHIPS, July-Sept, 2012, Vol.30(3), p.22(5) ("Securify * DoD Assured Compliance Assessment Solution (ACAS) * IPSonar *")
  6. "Enterprise security system deployment", Salmon, Scott A., Army Communicator, Summer, 2014, Vol.39(2), p.51(2 ("vulnerabilities that impact mission readiness and the ability to command and control. The Assured Compliance Assessment Solution..")
  7. "Press Release: SAIC Introduces CyberSecurity Edge(TM)", Dow Jones Institutional News, Aug 26, 2014, ("Assured Compliance Assessment Solution for the Defense Information Systems Agency -- Operation of multiple security operations centers, network operations...")
Best.4meter4 (talk) 12:12, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Largoplazo, enough of these are not press releases to satisfy WP:GNG. Source 5 was tagged as peer reviewed journal article. I just copy pasted the first seven of 29 publications without cherry picking the best of the bunch.4meter4 (talk) 17:21, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. MBisanz talk 03:41, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Alexander Watt Beveridge

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No indication of satisfying WP:SOLDIER or WP:ANYBIO. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:11, 21 September 2019 (UTC) Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:11, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete Can't find anything in RS apart from passing mentions, also found someone of same name who may be related to him, but otherwise nothing. There is nothing in the article that suggests notability, failed WP:GNG. Hzh (talk) 09:37, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. MBisanz talk 03:41, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Cinematographic Score: GTA5

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Unnotable album, only sources are Discogs (not reliable) and some personal blog (also unreliable). Lordtobi (✉) 21:09, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Trident, you just copy and pasted the information from Music of Grand Theft Auto V, with no additional sources establish any notability for an independent article. Just because the album is from a well-know band doesn't automatically means it notable for its own article. TheDeviantPro (talk) 04:55, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy keep. Nominated by a confirmed blocked sockpuppet with no other deletion proposals. (non-admin closure) Atlantic306 (talk) 22:53, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ashu

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Ashu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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very poor WP:RS lacks wp:gng, cited links are either the dead links or self published website Worldnpeace (talk) 20:59, 21 September 2019 (UTC) Striking confirmed blocked sockpuppet, Atlantic306 (talk) 22:52, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. MBisanz talk 03:41, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mand Munda

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Described as a village with "a total number of 2 houses and the population of 2 of which 2 are males while 0 are females". Hardly a village; less than a city block even. Seems part of an autocreated run with little attention given to what was generated. Hyperbolick (talk) 20:19, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Make this Keep for now for the reason given unless the nominator can show that this is merely a census tract. Hzh (talk) 11:37, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Elders of the Universe. History is available if anyone wants to merge additional details. RL0919 (talk) 20:26, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Possessor (comics)

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Possessor (comics) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Non-notable fictional character TTN (talk) 20:17, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to List of Marvel Comics characters: M. MBisanz talk 03:41, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Moses Magnum

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Non-notable fictional character TTN (talk) 20:16, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. MBisanz talk 03:40, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I Am Virgin

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This low-budget b-movie is far from notable, per guidelines set in WP:NFO. KidAd (talk) 18:13, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Meatsgains(talk) 20:54, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Moshe Abutbul (politician)

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Non-notable mayor. Meatsgains(talk) 17:53, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Fenix down (talk) 17:32, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kamran Tajali

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Article deleted by PROD in 2010, and then recreated, deleted again, and recreated again a few days later. PROD reason: "Footballer who fails NFOOTY and GNG". I concur. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:49, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 18:01, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Zaman Ali (philosopher)

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The subject fails WP:NPOL and WP:NAUTHOR. Ali was a candidate for the National Assembly of Pakistan but was not elected. The article claims Ali received attention "as one of youngest candidate to secure votes", but the cited sources are just routine coverage that contain passing mentions of Ali. Ali is also the author of two books, but I can't find WorldCat entries for either, much less anything that would satisfy NAUTHOR. – Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 17:43, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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If these article is for delete then what about all of these articles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Khaliq_(philosopher) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._A._Qadir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalim_Siddiqui https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaheen_Shah_Taji https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intisar-ul-Haque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saifuddin_Bohra

They don't have even one single good reference and don't have any identifiers from prominent identifiers. so you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lord_Bolingbroke what you say about all of this because u know nothing.

and Zaman ali world cat entry will be here in few days then what? then you have to accept this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danyl8901 (talk • contribs) 08:29, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

See also: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zaman Ali
  • Delete fails WP:NPOL as he did not win any election, he lost one though. dont see any reason for him passing WP:NAUTHOR either.  Danyl8901 please see WP:OSE you can go ahead and delete them if you find them not passing WP:N criteria. regards. --DBigXrayᗙ 12:31, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. People do not get Wikipedia articles just for being candidates in elections they did not win, so he doesn't pass WP:NPOL as a politician — but if you have to source the existence of his books to GoodReads and BookFinder entries, because reliable source coverage about them is nonexistent, then he doesn't pass WP:AUTHOR as a philosopher either. And Dany18901 needs to read WP:WAX if they think their ability to find other articles that aren't better sourced than this means this has to be kept: more likely those other articles need to be deleted too, and just hadn't been noticed by a responsible editor until Dany pointed them out. Bearcat (talk) 16:17, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • KeepSo where is your criteria that many articles are on Wikipedia from years and not deleted despite having bad sources. that mean wikipedia is total fraud, and any admin can delete any article whenever he want and no check and balance on all those articles that are here. and i could show you thousands of worse articles and they all are on wikipedia. so how can we say you guys are doing better work here. that's why wikipedia is losing it's credibility. if you want to delete this then delete all those articles. and i know many paid admin who works for others and make fake articles and because they are admins and know how fake bad sources into good one and then articles don't get deleted. what about them? answer me with valid argument then delete this article. and if you don't have any valid argument then you are wasting your time here. because fake but expert people are making articles here with not any good sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danyl8901 (talk • contribs) 16:36, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Danyl8901, you did create your account on 25 June. Just that day Zaman Ali's d:Q42709759 has been deleted. And - surprise! - just that day you created a new one d:Q64826519. So you shouldn't be surprised, if someone starts an SPI against you. --Achim (talk) 22:31, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Achim watch out man you have some wrong agenda here, you are fake and not the right person here, wikipedia is about putting articles with references but you fake shit you are here to make and delete articles on your personal likes and dislikes, wikipedia should ban you from here. and yes i created articles but with citations and sources and not without that if you have problem with sources and citation then talk otherwise do some right work in life and not waste others time. you are not the only one to delete this, let votes here and if people think article doesn't have right citations or not good enough then delete it on that basis. but your opinion here is fake one and doesn't matter because you are here with wrong intention.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Danyl8901 (talk • contribs) 06:42, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:TOOSOON and WP:MILL - this is a twenty-something writer without major publications. Bearian (talk) 14:35, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete fails WP:NPOL and WP:NAUTHOR, subject wasn't notable the first time the article was deleted and isn't notable now. Best, GPL93 (talk) 22:18, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom but also per G4 and G5. This is obvious sock puppetry and vanity spamming. Praxidicae (talk) 16:19, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sandstein 07:42, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

EndChan

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Not really seeing significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject (WP:N). Specifically, everything that's more than a brief mention is solely in the context of Bærum mosque shooting. As it's mentioned in that article, a redirect is probably in order, but a stand-alone article doesn't seem necessary. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 17:41, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete G5: created by a sock of User:Cuty Pie Sweetu. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 08:09, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Zee Classic

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The article was speedy deleted three times as non notable. The new version, recreated today, contains some sources, which, in my opinion, are not sufficient to establish notability. Ymblanter (talk) 16:43, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Zee Classic is a popular television channel in India. There were no pages for it. That's why created this page with following all guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chitra Saha (talk • contribs)

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 18:17, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of the third-party content in Super Smash Bros.

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List of the third-party content in Super Smash Bros. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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WP:GAMECRUFT. While the third-party characters are notable, their stages and related trophies and stickers are almost never notable, at least in the context of a spin-off list such as this. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 16:26, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi, I created this page by just copy/pasting (and formating) content from List of crossovers in video games to improve visual clarity of the page. This is not the only version of the page which is overloaded with Super Smash Bros. content, it is rather final version. You can check version history of that Page to confirm that. If we delete this page, original author will undo one of the older versions of List of crossovers in video games, and I am not sure do we want that. If you can prevent that or have any other solution, I am fine with deletion. EchoBlu (talk) 19:07, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That list is entirely unsourced and also seems to violate WP:VGSCOPE. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 03:11, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy delete for recreation of deleted material. Article has also been salted. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:10, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Emmanuel Michael

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Emmanuel Michael (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Biography of a person who does not pass GNG or any other notability criteria. Tagishsimon (talk) 14:41, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 20:27, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Martin Dixon-Green

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Martin Dixon-Green (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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The player does not meet WP:NBASKETBALL and I cannot find evidence that he meets WP:GNG either. There are no independent sources on the article. The player has had a relatively unremarkable college and professional career (in a league that is not considered top flight) and in fact I can’t find evidence that he is even still playing since his release from the London Lightning in late 2018. Rikster2 (talk) 12:57, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. RL0919 (talk) 18:05, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mira_Gonzalez

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Non-notable person, does not pass WP:BIO. Published a single book of poems 6 years ago and does not appear to be active. Appears to be a vanity page for the author to link to on twitter. KiTA (talk) 12:39, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - Seems to pass WP:AUTHOR 4)c. Was featured with new poetry in a literary publication 3 years ago [1]. Alternative to deletion: the page should be updated with this content. Linking to her twitter is relevant considering her creation of a poetry book based on collages of her (and others') tweets, which also supports WP:AUTHOR 2.
  • Keep - This article fits the criteria for notability. In particular, the bio receives significant coverage from independent sources that do not come from and are not directly related to the subject of the bio. The sources are reliable mainstream publications such as the Guardian. I agree with what was stated above - this article should just be updated to reflect more recent info about the subject. I should also point out that there is considerable new interest in deletion after comments the subject made against a well-known personality, so arguments favoring deletion may come from a biased intent against the subject rather than an impartial evaluation of the article itself. MindPrism (talk) 19:17, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as per two previous Keep discussions. Notable poet, reviews in reliable sources.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 22:52, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Not notable. 71.103.224.224 (talk) 23:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep - I’ve seen articles on less notable people survive AfDs. I agree that the article now looks like a vanity page. However, the better response is to correct the article, as opposed to delete it. I already tried to do that by deleting all puffery that was supported by ñon-existing articles, but that got reverted. I’ll leave it to other users now. Regards, Jeff5102 (talk) 07:48, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy delete per G5. — JJMC89 (T·C) 03:54, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Natalie Ortega

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Natalie Ortega (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Purely undisclosed COI. Beasteggs (talk) 12:31, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Draftify. Consensus is to draftify. Article will be moved to Draft:International Relations Lecture Series for further work. Note that at least one of the "draftify" !voters has indicated a willingness to review the updated article before it is moved back to mainspace. ST47 (talk) 19:15, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

International Relations Lecture Series

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International Relations Lecture Series (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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This seems like a notice-board announcement of a series of lectures. The only reference is not independent and I could find no substantial coverage in reliable independent sources. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:03, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A primary source citation has been added to the article, so there is now an independent reference. The article is not a notice board post--it purposes to document this speaker series and to present the results of research into its 90-year history. I prefer to build the article in a sandbox, but I'm already working on a major edit of the Deb Lavender/living person/MO State Representative wiki page in my sandbox and do not know how to fork a sandbox so I can work on two articles at once. More boxes of MO Historical Society records are being shipped to UMSL for me to dig through next week. I believe the article should be expanded, not deleted, because it defines and explains an historical St. Louis women's event.PatriciaBishop (talk) 15:50, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

— Note to closing admin: PatriciaBishop (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD.
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@Cwmhiraeth: Hello, thank you for your message. As soon as possible I will add reference sources and facts to further build this article--what I really need is to move it to a sandbox until I can complete it, but I don't know how to do this. On notable coverage by local news sources: Last year local St. Louis Post-Dispatch columnist Tony Messenger mentioned this speaker series in one of his articles because Dr. Jeffrey Winters was one of the visiting speakers. Dr. Winters is an internationally renowned expert on income inequality and professor at Northwestern University, department chair. Dr. Winters' work has been cited in Plutocrats by Chrystia Freeland (who is also internationally famous as a business reporter, member of the Canadian parliament, and because she was the point person for her government explaining to President Trump why there is no trade imbalance) and Dark Money by Jane Mayer. Further, the article is a part of women's history in St. Louis. The event series has been the work of two women's groups for almost 90 years, which is notable for many reasons I won't go into within this format. PatriciaBishop (talk) 00:26, 14 September 2019 (UTC)The series has never been for-profit. PatriciaBishop (talk) 16:01, 13 September 2019 (UTC) This article now has a recent source citation from the Pulitzer Prize winning reporter, Tony Messenger of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Tony interviewed one of the Series speakers because the speaker, Dr. Jeffrey Winters, is a world-renowned expert in international finance and how it relates to power and government. Dr. Winters traveled from Chicago to speak at the Series.PatriciaBishop (talk) 15:02, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak keep The article is just blatant advertising at the moment and will need a complete re-write to be acceptable and as for the comment above, it is irrelevant that a "Pulitzer Prize winning reporter" interviewed one of the speakers. Theroadislong (talk) 15:13, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article is being held to an unreasonable standard. It is difficult to present women's history that is well documented. This subject matter happens to be very well documented in the mainstream press and in Missouri Historical Society records. That this Series ever happened at all--and has endured--is amazing. Women in history were usually birthing, child rearing, cooking, cleaning, sewing, and working on farms & in factories with absolutely nothing notable happening to get them into history books. Everyone seems to want to know what the white men were doing and record their work for history--or give the white men credit for the work others actually performed. This article is about women interested in solving world problems, in seeing and understanding multiple points of view on tough issues. This is far, far more interesting and impressive than Imo's Pizza, HOK, Oldani's, and many other popular subjects that are even less notable--yet somehow are approved for Wikipedia. If this article is deleted, articles Imo's Pizza, HOK architects, Oldani's, and many more must be deleted. Not all history is popular; this should not be a popularity contest. I hope to continue expanding this article with cross-references to historical influences across the decades as these series were being held. I understand the impulse to derisively dismiss this subject matter as unimportant, but I disagree.PatriciaBishop (talk) 13:20, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Theroadislong Hi, I see a point in re-ordering the information, putting an historical overview in the first paragraph. Maybe I should leave out the current day event details; they really aren't necessary. I put the details there originally because I only had the website as a source as I waited for documents to be transferred to St. Louis from Historical Society's main storage in Columbia, MO. Thursday of this week I'll have a chance to dig into the records again, so the results of that dig will change the direction/organization of the article, I'm sure.PatriciaBishop (talk) 13:20, 17 September 2019 (UTC) I put Tony Messenger's interview of one of the speakers in the article because in the Wiki notability guidelines, there's mention of significant news coverage. The other place I'm going with this is that historically the Series has attracted expert speakers who are giants in their fields, and this is part of what makes the Series notable. And, I still maintain if the Series had been produced by white men since 1929--it would already be a Wikipedia page. Women's history tends to get a short shrift.PatriciaBishop (talk) 21:27, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Draftify to allow time for sources to be found per WP:DRAFTIFY - as it stands, I couldn't find any significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources, not newspapers, books on women's history, etc. - the only guideline that may save this article is WP:SUSTAINED, that the lecture series has attracted attention over a sufficiently significant period of time, but there are no obvious sources, possibly because the series pre-dates the internet, but there may be newspaper archives, etc., that provide writeups on the lecture series from the past - the notability of individual lecturers has no bearing as notability cannot be inherited, the lecture series itself must be notable as evidenced by significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources - Epinoia (talk) 02:57, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - another approach would be WP:PRESERVE to allow time for the article to be improved and sources found (but in the absence of sources the article could be up for deletion again in the future) - or finally, Wikipedia:Ignore all rules; if there is consensus that a lecture series that has been running since 1929 is inherently notable then it could possibly be kept under common sense editing - however, WP:ROUGHCONSENSUS says, "Wikipedia policy requires that articles and information comply with core content policies (verifiability, no original research or synthesis, neutral point of view, copyright, and biographies of living persons) as applicable. These policies are not negotiable, and cannot be superseded by any other guidelines or by editors' consensus", so there's that - Epinoia (talk) 01:53, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Hello, Thank you for your comment and suggesting more time for research. I'm going back to Missouri Historical Society at UMSL in St. Louis to piece more of the history together, and have found newspaper articles in St. Louis Post-Dispatch archives, but need to pull together these items now into a cohesive article. I'm also struggling with the idea that a lecture series is quintessentially the speakers it is able to attract and the intellectual purpose & vision its organizers have had to invite certain speakers. Also the presentation topics are weighty, and have tended to be prescient. So I'm kind of going in this direction to establish notability--yet the struggle comes in because, logical as this approach is, it doesn't fit exactly with Wikipedia notability guidelines.PatriciaBishop (talk) 21:18, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Further research reveals this lecture series was chaired at least twice by Edna Gellhorn, the famous St. Louis suffragette who organized the Golden Lane demonstration at the 1916 Democratic National Convention, and later went on to co-found the National League of Women Voters. This discovery speaks to two issues. First, the notability of the Lecture Series is boosted by the fact that historically important people have been associated with it. Secondly, it furthers my previous argument about how difficult it is to document women's history. Facts and events don't make it into recorded history unless, at the time, someone thinks these things were important. Women's activities were not generally considered important. Gellhorn was a particularly good publicist. See her Wiki page.PatriciaBishop (talk) 15:05, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify the editor who created this has said that they are prepared to do extensive further work on it and it sounds as though further sources can be found to improve it. Mccapra (talk) 02:44, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify per Mccapra.4meter4 (talk) 03:09, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I nominated this article for deletion. I am happy for it to be draftified, but that will not actually solve the problem of whether the lecture series is notable or not. Having well-known speakers does not of itself demonstrate notability. The creator needs to find sufficient reliable, independent sources to demonstrate notability. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:43, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment @PatriciaBishop: if this goes to draft and you want help reviewing it before sending it back to mainspace, contact me on my talk page. Mccapra (talk) 05:15, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Additional reviews found during discussion appear to satisfy WP:BOOKCRIT. RL0919 (talk) 18:15, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Before Jerusalem Fell

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Before Jerusalem Fell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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No evidence that the book meets WP:BOOKCRIT or has significant coverage by reliable third party sources. Niteshift36 (talk) 12:21, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Keep - the book is notable as the most cited support for Preterism and Postmillennialism, contrary to the majority view, but nonetheless giving a balance of view. The article needs major expansion. JohnThorne (talk) 19:29, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tough call. I couldn't find reviews in the conventional sources but the article links to an article which discusses the book's arguments at great length.[7] There are 82 citations to the book on Google Scholar which is not amazing but not nothing either. For Gentry's own compilation of comments on it see here: [8] Some of those look like they might go to reviews or other usable coverage. This is as far as I've got. Haukur (talk) 13:11, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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It looks like this review was published in Bibliotheca Sacra, so that would be the second one, as required. StAnselm (talk) 18:56, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I found one from the The Journal of Theological Studies.[9] StAnselm (talk) 19:02, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. MBisanz talk 03:27, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Abeil

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Abeil (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Poorly sourced stub article about a little-known fictional species. I couldn't find any mention of them in any reliable independent sources. Not a very active user (talk) 08:36, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jovanmilic97 (talk) 10:42, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Very unnotable fictional creature, with nothing in the way of reliable, secondary sources indicating any sort of real world notability. The proposed merge/redirect target is already a bloated, border-line unnotable list, so I don't recommend any sort of redirection there. The IP user's suggestion of using this as a redirect as a potential misspelling of Abiel is not a bad one, and can be done after this is deleted. Rorshacma (talk) 16:40, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Fails WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 03:08, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is to delete on WP:GNG / WP:NPOL grounds. There are some suggestions to merge or redirect to 2019 San Francisco mayoral election, but not enough to call that the official "outcome" of this debate. So I will delete and unlink (the only mainspace links are from 2018 San Francisco mayoral special election and 2019 San Francisco mayoral election, and if folks think it should be a redirect, they can feel free to do that. ST47 (talk) 19:23, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ellen Lee Zhou

[edit]
Ellen Lee Zhou (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Unelected politician, passing coverage, seems to fail both WP:NPOLITICIAN and WP:NBIO. De facto electoral advertising, complete with a DYK nomination and the usual red flag of WP:SPA contributions (Pray4america (talk · contribs)). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:39, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. @Piotrus: it should be clear that Pray4america vandalized the page I wrote, no? Did you check the history? They didn't write the article, they just tried to turn it into a campaign ad, which I've reverted as they are a WP:SPA with an obvious WP:COI. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 03:47, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • In what way is anything I wrote an endorsement of Zhou? Certainly I'm helping her campaign by reporting her belief in conspiracy theories and her endorsement of a Trump wall in a city as Democratic as SF? Is it not our aim to feature more women in politics? Psiĥedelisto (talk) 03:56, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: By the way, editors should be aware that Piotrus is trying to get even the image File:Ellen Lee Zhou.jpg deleted completely without merit. Per commons:COM:YT the image is clearly allowed to be on Commons regardless of the outcome of this AfD. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 04:00, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the image is free, I've withdrawn the nomination for it. It is in either case mostly irrelevant to this topic, through it is worth noting that currently, the article at the point of its nomination did not use that more neutral image, but instead an explicit election poster... Now, I see that there is an edit war there between the SPA and the creator (Psiĥedelisto), through I expect the SPA will just get blocked soon for edit warring, solving one problem. I concur that the Psiĥedelisto's version is more neutral, through I still don't believe it passes NBIO.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:47, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Piotrus: I disagree on two counts. A single revert of obviously unencyclopedic content is not an edit war. I'm not the only one reverting Pray4america's improper edits, although you're probably right that they're going to be blocked. WP:POLITICIAN states Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage. Zhou has been covered in World Journal, San Francisco Chronicle, SFGate, Mission Local, San Francisco Examiner, National Review (!!!), and extensively in The Epoch Times, which I realize is a problematic source. There is more than enough coverage for an article Psiĥedelisto (talk) 08:10, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Getting a paragraph or a single sentence quote is very much 'not' extensive coverage. Instead, it is the very definition of passing, minor coverage that is not sufficient for NBIO. Did any of those sources dedicate at least several paragraphs to her? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:00, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The sources are all there in the article. National Review wrote three paragraphs about her. The Epoch Times has covered her extensively. World Journal wrote an article entirely about her. Mission Local wrote a long piece about a protest Zhou organized. KTSF wrote a long piece as well, and regularly covers her in Chinese. SFGate wrote a long piece about her before she was even a politician. The article has 14 sources and I haven't even found everything yet. Did you even check them? Psiĥedelisto (talk) 10:15, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not much of this in in-depth, but I have stricter criteria than some, and this is a borderline type of an entry, in my experience this AfD can swing 50/50. Let's leave this to others and see what they think about this. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:34, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If you will not withdraw, there's nothing else I can do, is there? You've moved the goalpost from "three paragraphs" to "in-depth", whatever that means. There is tons of in-depth coverage in both English and Chinese. I think you opened this against a vandalized article, failed to check the history, and now when faced with overwhelming evidence that I attempted to write this article in a NPOV way with now 15 sources, you can't admit your error. So yes, let's see what others say. 50/50 is being very optimistic on your end. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 10:52, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Piotrus: FWIW I have added the licensereview tag to the Commons pic. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 23:04, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pray4america (talk) 15:33, 13 September 2019 (UTC) I agree that the original picture should be deleted. This is 2019, and Piotrus was still using 2018 picture (out of thousands currently public available pictures, he used that ugly one on purpose). Please remove that picture, and use a latest one. Also, please remove all the unfair labeling words, it's not your role to judge a person to be a far right or leftist, so do not do it! I will for sure add some more neutral materials after this is settled down. Of course your advice will be put into consideration. A simple revert to the last year version doesn't help the world to know a candidate what she is, it was a very politically skewed one. Thanks.[reply]

Hello pray4america. Are you Ellen Lee Zhou? Do you work for Ellen Lee Zhou? You sent an email to OTRS for the picture, that is not something I can do as I have no connection to Ms. Zhou. Please understand Wikipedia's policies on this matter. A free image must always be used if available. Only dead people can have copyrighted images of them used under fair use, as making a free image of them is impossible after their death. I found many pictures of Ms. Zhou in my research, but the only one that was freely licensed was the one I used. Please always assume good faith here on Wikipedia unless you have a good reason to believe the image was purposefully chosen. I don't think Ms. Zhou looks bad in the 2018 image at all. In fact, I purposefully chose a timestamp where Ms. Zhou had a neutral expression. I could have easily chosen one with Zhou having an open mouth, or closed eyes, or any other wacky expression as happens when people are talking. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 02:48, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pray4america (talk) 03:22, 14 September 2019 (UTC)::Hello Psiĥedelisto I am not Ellen Lee Zhou, and I do not work for her. I only wanted to help her to appear the way she should be. Ellen Lee Zhou is still alive, and she has a 2019 campaign site with a lot of pictures. Also she has social media account where you can easily use to contact her directly. For all the personal life, professional experience and media coverage. Yet you didn't do any of these, and you removed all the social media info I put into this page. I understand as the original author of this page, you felt a little at loss when somebody else came and modify it with so much enrichment. Yet I ask you to also understand that this page does not belong to you, and it's not your property. When you contributed to wikipedia, it belongs to the world, and it should be tested by all sides of all the social/potitical/ethnic issues. Yes, that's true that you could easily choose a much worse picture, but you do know that if it's across the boundary, it's not neutral any more even on the looking. Please be open to other people's contribution. Only after hearing more inputs, this page can start to be neutral. The content right now, it very much skewed. And my goal here is to help wikipedia to be true source of truth, and prevent it from being hijacked by a few political views. Thanks.[reply]

@Pray4america: If you aren't Ms. Zhou, and you don't work for Ms. Zhou, did you take the photo File:Ellen Lee Zhou New Profile Pic.png? Psiĥedelisto (talk) 04:03, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Pray4america (talk) 04:14, 14 September 2019 (UTC) Psiĥedelisto I got this email directly from her. It was simple I just wrote her an email. Do you want to see our email exchange?[reply]
@Pray4america: So you emailed Ms. Zhou, she agreed to license her image under the CC 4.0 license, and then you forwarded that email to OTRS? I don't have a problem with the new image if it is properly licensed. You're under no obligation to show me the exchange (that's what OTRS is for), but if you'd like you can send it to me at Special:EmailUser/Psiĥedelisto and I can tell you if what she wrote to you is enough, and if it wasn't, what you need to get her to tell you instead. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 04:20, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pray4america (talk) 05:06, 14 September 2019 (UTC) Psiĥedelisto Since this picture is from herself, Ellen Lee can give any license you need. That's why I put the license part as: can provide when requested. Thanks.[reply]

Did you email OTRS? I don't tend to make contact with the people I write about. I am not obligated to do so, and if they want to change the photo in their article, they can join the project and upload an image themselves, then let me know on my talk page (or just change the image). I will not be emailing Ms. Zhou. Did Ms. Zhou license File:Ellen Lee Zhou New Profile Pic.png under the terms of the CC 4.0 or not? Or have you uploaded it just on the assumption such license would be provided on request? Psiĥedelisto (talk) 05:28, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 07:35, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 07:35, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 07:35, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Seems well sourced with 3rd party sources to me, I'm not seeing the election advertising that the AFD originally claims in the current version. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 06:24, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. People do not get Wikipedia articles just for being candidates in future elections they have not won; a person has to hold a notable political office, not just run for one, to clear WP:NPOL. But candidates also do not get a WP:GNG-based exemption from having to pass NPOL just because some local campaign coverage exists in the election context — every candidate in every election can always show some evidence of local campaign coverage, so if the existence of that coverage were enough in and of itself then every candidate would always get that exemption and NPOL itself would become completely meaningless. Furthermore, a considerable number of the media hits here are not about her in any substantive way, but just glancingly mention her name in the process of being about somebody or something else (which are not sources that help to demonstrate or bolster her notability, because she isn't their subject) — and several more are primary sources (committees' self-published meeting minutes, raw tables of ballot counting results, etc.), which are not support for notability either. GNG does not just count the footnotes and keep anything that surpasses an arbitrary number: it also tests for the reliability of the sources, the depth of how substantively any given source is or isn't about her, the geographic range of how widely the coverage is spreading, and the context of what she's getting coverage for, and the sources here all fail one or more of those tests. Running for mayor is not an inherently notable context that would get her over GNG just because some election coverage exists in the city's local media, because every candidate for mayor of anywhere can always show that. Obviously she'll qualify for an article on or after November 5 if she wins, but nothing here adds up to a reason why she would already be eligible to have an article today. Bearcat (talk) 16:46, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Bearcat: She is very well known in the Chinese-American community in San Francisco and is always protesting something or another. We have articles about quite a few perennial candidates who became notable just by running for office repeatedly. I cited a few primary sources but respected the guidelines around doing that. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 05:14, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Asserting that a person is well known in one city's local ethnic community is not a notability criterion in and of itself, and neither is "always protesting something or another". The notability test is not measured in terms of counting up how many people in one city you think have heard of her; there are lots of notable people in the world you probably haven't heard of, and lots of non-notable people you probably have. The notability test is measured by whether she has a credible claim of nationalized significance (i.e. a reason why she might be just as important for people in Portland, Maine to read about as for San Franciscans) that can be supported by a nationalized range of media coverage. Bearcat (talk) 13:44, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Bearcat: World Journal and National Review are certainly national publications. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 03:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We're not looking for nationalized sources that mention Ellen Lee Zhou in the process of being about something else — we're looking for nationalized sources in which Ellen Lee Zhou is the subject. Y'ain't shown none of that. Being asked to give soundbite to the media in an article about something or somebody else is not the same thing as notability-supporting sources about her. Bearcat (talk) 04:01, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand why you think that's necessary, I don't see anything in the relevant policy pages to support that being a necessity. Can you point out to me where this requirement comes from? Psiĥedelisto (talk) 05:15, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's right in the basic definition of notability: a source supports a subject's notability if it is substantively about said subject, and does not support notability if it merely mentions the subject's name in passing in the process of being about something else. For an example, this newspaper article is valid support for the notability of novelist Rachel Cusk. It is not valid support for the notability of Nathan Whitlock as its author, and it is not relevant to the notability of William Shatner, D.H. Lawrence, Edith Wharton, Natalia Ginzburg or Elizabeth Gilbert even though their names are all mentioned in it too — because it isn't about any of those people, it is about Rachel Cusk. Bearcat (talk) 14:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Johnpacklambert: At least one source dates from before she ran for office. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 05:08, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We need a lot more than just one piece of pre-campaign coverage to establish that she was already notable enough for an article before being a candidate. GNG is not just "anybody who's ever gotten their name into their local newspaper"; it requires a lot more than that. Bearcat (talk) 13:44, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Apart from what has already been elucidated regarding articles about election candidates, I have concerns about such an article being published during an election campaign - it compromises the perception of Wikipedia's neutrality. I am referring to how it might be perceived; I'm not questioning the creator's intentions. Also, at least one source is not neutral and is clearly poking fun at the woman's inability to draw much support at a demonstration (Mission Local. Crowd of 4 show up). Felixkrater (talk) 08:27, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Felixkrater: Supposed effects on the perception of the project by outsiders is never a valid reason to delete. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 08:43, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
When you are a candidate who runs rallies that get less than 10 at a rally which is then the subject of a mocking article in a hyper local publication you are not fitting the definition of notable. We had way more people are the pro-religious freedom rally I attended in Ann Arbor, a rally that was specifically targetted at angst against the Obama birth-control mandates. We were at over 200 people, maybe even more than that. So yes, even in a bastion of liberalism like San Francisco or Ann Arobor you can get attendance at a conservative rally, doing a rally with less than 10 participants shows you have little pull or organizational leadership.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:23, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no evidence of that in the article. If she really was a notable political figure, it would have been possible to write a more substantial article about her and to find better sources. Note: "Politicians and judges who have held international, national, or sub-national (e.g., province- or state-wide) office" and "Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage" WP:POLITICIAN. Someone who has never held office and who can muster only 4 to 8 people for a demo on the steps of city hall, during an election campaign, is not a major political figure. She does not fit the notability criteria.Felixkrater (talk) 05:52, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Felixkrater: She is a human being with a history, not merely a politician. I don't normally argue with people on Wikipedia because I consider it a colossal waste of time, particularly when it's treated as a political battleground. I'll just note this article about her fourteen years ago[2]. (I live in San Francisco, by the way.) – Athaenara ✉ 08:53, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.fieldsmagazine.com/profile-mira-gonzalez
  2. ^ Vanessa Hua (March 18, 2005). "SAN FRANCISCO / Acting on a teacher's request / San Francisco social worker is returning to her village in China to improve the school". San Francisco Chronicle. Retrieved September 17, 2019.
  • The existence of one 14-year-old article in her local newspaper is not enough coverage to demonstrate that she already had preexisting notability for other reasons before becoming a candidate — and that's the same article that was already profferred and responded to above, so it isn't a new data point. If one piece of coverage in the local newspaper was enough to make a person encyclopedically notable, we would have to keep an article about my mother's neighbour who got into the local newspaper several years ago for finding a pig in her yard. GNG is not just "anybody who can show that their name has ever appeared in any newspaper for any reason whatsoever": as I already explained above, it requires a lot more than just the existence of an arbitrary number of footnotes. It also tests for the reliability of the sources, the depth of how substantively any given source is or isn't about her, the geographic range of how widely the coverage is spreading, and the context of what she's getting coverage for. Bearcat (talk) 15:39, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to 2019 San Francisco mayoral election - Candidate is not inherently notable on her own outside of her candidacy for mayor. Move information about her campaign and the racist op-ed to the article about the election. Bkissin (talk) 17:45, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This has been a somewhat difficult decision, but on balance I think the concerns with GNG are justified. That there are sources that make reference to her with regards to her political ambitions is not in doubt, but the coverage is far too limited. The article hangs the notability squarely on her running for political office, but in the absence of her not yet having held any notable office, there is nothing beyond that. The article is a collection of her campaign work, policies and statements, which any campaigner in this election, or any other would be able to demonstrate, and that does not itself confer sufficiently notability to pass wikipedia policies. Spokoyni (talk) 01:52, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've all but accepted at this point I'm going to need more sources to recreate this article. I'm not happy about it but I'll wait until after the election and see where things stand. Editors should be aware User:Pray4america has admitted the COI I suspected, see evidence at WP:COI/N. I will recreate the article after the election if it is deleted and if in that time a national newspaper profiles her, to meet the request of User:Bearcat, although I don't think that should be necessary. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 03:14, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:Psiĥedelisto "User:Pray4america has admitted the COI I suspected", wow! Good job putting your words into other people's mouth. Getting permission with a publicly available email to contact the person in question, is COI according to your definition? And constantly smering a person with leftist idiologies is "neutral"? I do not understand it, and I do not understand if that's the way wikipedia is functioning. Pray4america (talk) 04:07, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Psiĥedelisto, just to be clear, the thing you're being asked to understand is that every mayoral candidate in every city can always show some evidence of mayoral campaign coverage in the local media — just last year alone, the city I live in had 35 mayoral candidates, the city I grew up in had 11 and the city where I went to university had 12, and since all three of those cities have local media, every last one of those 58 people can be referenced to some evidence of campaign coverage — but Wikipedia has a longstanding consensus that maintaining an article about everybody who ever ran for mayor of anywhere is not our role or mandate. A person has to win the election to clear NPOL, and otherwise candidates are accepted as notable only if they can credibly demonstrate that either (a) they were already notable under another Wikipedia notability criterion for other reasons independent of the candidacy, or (b) their candidacy is much more special than everybody else's candidacies for some nationally significant reason. That's why you need to show nationalized coverage: this article is not demonstrating that she was already notable enough for an article before running for mayor, so it has to show that her candidacy is somehow much more notable than Joel Ventresca's, Paul Ybarra Robertson's, Robert Jordan's or Wilma Pang's; somehow much more notable than the 34 people in my city who ran for mayor last year and didn't win; and on and so forth. And even if "a national newspaper profiles her" between now and November 5, that still won't be the magic ticket by itself: we would still need to see several such pieces, not just one, before the notability equation would start to shift here. If she wins, then yes, things will automatically change and an article will be justified — but if she doesn't, an article about her isn't justified unless you can show convincing evidence that either she was already notable for some other reason, or her candidacy was special. Bearcat (talk) 13:31, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There seems to be sufficient news coverage apart from the campaign-related matters. Of course, the natural stance for Wikipedians is to deny current candidates an advertising opportunity, rather than restoring to a neutral version and protecting it. If this was deleted and then re-created after the election I wouldn't be upset about it. Chris Troutman (talk) 18:15, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Where is the article showing any coverage about her "apart" from the campaign-related matters? Nearly every single footnote here that's not campaign-specific is a glancing mention of her existence in a source whose primary subject is something or somebody else besides her, not notability-making coverage about her — and the only one that is about her in any non-trivial way has already been addressed at least twice in this discussion as not in and of itself enough to make her notable outside of the campaign itself if it's the only "both about her and predating the campaign" source that can be shown. Bearcat (talk) 18:33, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Bearcat: I can understand overlooking routine sources from campaign coverage but I don't think we have to discount all sources that mention the subject is a candidate, as if that doesn't matter. There are multiple citations about the crime perceived to be targeting the Chinese community, wherein Zhou is mentioned. That's not routine coverage. What puts me off from your rationale is the degree to which you argue with opposing views, which leads me to believe you're some sort of partisan. If you think sources from during a campaign don't count, then you need to re-read WP:GNG. This subject doesn't have to pass NPOL if she passes GNG. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:34, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't need to reread anything. We have a long-established consensus that because all candidates in all elections can always show some evidence of campaign coverage, but all candidates in all elections are not always notable enough for Wikipedia, campaign coverage does not establish that a person passes GNG unless it explodes far, far out of scope with what every other candidate can also show. It's the same as the reason why we don't accept most city councillors as notable just because they have some coverage in their local media, and why we don't accept that every restaurant on earth is notable just because the local restaurant critic has reviewed it in the local newspaper — just because local coverage exists, in a context where local coverage is simply expected to exist, does not add up to a reason why the rest of the world needs an article to exist. GNG is not just "count up the media hits and keep anything that exceeds a certain arbitrary number" — it also tests for depth and geographic range and the context of what the person is getting covered for, and being an unelected candidate for mayor is not a notable context where the mere existence of the expected local campaign coverage is enough to make the candidate notable. Bearcat (talk) 22:26, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Borderline personal attack on a user based on deletion discussion statistics. Personal attacks will not be tolerated on Wikipedia. FoxyGrampa75 (talk) 23:56, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I applaud the fact that you're even more of a deletionist that I. Despite that, I've seen GNG swing much lower than this. Further, neither National Review nor NTD and World Journal (all cited here) are local routine coverage. Can the other candidates also show wide coverage? The article about the current mayor is even more dominated by local sources. Chris Troutman (talk) 23:32, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
San Francisco is a large and important enough city that an article about its mayor is expected, so we don't care about the localness or non-localness of her sourcing — London Breed holds an inherently notable role where an article is automatically mandatory, so she doesn't have to pass any nationalizing coverage tests at all. The standard for candidates is different than the standard for actual officeholders is, however — Wikipedia does not accept unelected candidates as inherently notable just because their name is present on a ballot, so an unelected candidate does have to clear much higher bars of sourceability that mark her out as much more special than other candidates. And as for National Review nor NTD and World Journal, those have all already been discussed here: they're not all substantively about her, and even if they were, making a candidate notable enough for an article still requires more than just a small handful of wider than local coverage: it requires nationalized coverage that explodes to Christine O'Donnell proportions, and is not just automatically satisfied the moment you can show a couple of pieces of more than purely local coverage. And no, I'm not a "deletionist", either: I'm an article-quality-matters-ist if I'm anything. Bearcat (talk) 23:56, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment As stated on my user page, I am intermediate in Chinese. I've found some more sources in Chinese or by Chinese publications:
I ask that editors rethink their decisions in light of the multitude of Chinese sources. She is important in the Chinese-American community. I could keep going but let's stick with these. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 00:02, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's already been explained to you that campaign-specific coverage does not bolster the notability of a candidate who is not already established as having already been notable enough for an article independently of the candidacy — every candidate can always show campaign coverage, and you're still not showing any sources which demonstrate that her candidacy is more notable than Joel Ventresca's, Paul Ybarra Robertson's, Robert Jordan's or Wilma Pang's, or the 34 people in my city who ran for mayor last year without winning. So no, showing more articles about her mayoral campaign speeches doesn't change anything, articles which briefly mention her name in the process of being fundamentally about something other than her don't change anything, campaign endorsements from other people don't change anything, and Q&A interviews in which she's talking about herself in the first person don't change anything either. Bearcat (talk) 04:31, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Bearcat: That's simply not what WP:NPOL says. That's just your standard, which I don't agree with. Furthermore, I don't know if you can read Chinese, but some of the sources are not even about the campaign, but rather about the rallies of Ms. Zhou, mostly for gun rights and against crime in San Francisco. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 06:23, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Also, you ask me, why is Mrs. Zhou special? Let me try to answer, but these are just my opinions, what motivated me to research her and write the article. For one thing, she's the only Republican running. For another, she's not ordinary—hanging around with far-right YouTubers like Stefan Molyneux (and making documentaries with them where she accosts homeless people and says they want to be homeless), spouting baseless conspiracy theories, and getting a lot of the Chinese community around her. She also says a lot of thinly veiled racist messages. This makes her interesting, she is like the mythical fed up Chinese–American so often in the right wing imagination, she even wants a border wall...as an immigrant herself! National Review and The Epoch Times love her for that. None of the other candidates are interesting at all. We all know she'll lose, but after she does the Chinese press will keep turning out new articles and I'm sure she'll keep holding rallies and doing whatever she can to advance right-wing politics in San Francisco. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 06:33, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It most certainly is exactly what NPOL says, and is most certainly not just my personal standard. It's not sufficient to stand on just the letter of what you think a notability standard technically says — you also have to understand the established consensus around how notability standards are actually applied at AFD when differing interpretations have come up for consideration, because all of our notability standards can be read in self-serving ways by people who are trying to oversell their pet topics. Every candidate in every election can always claim that they've been exempted from having to pass NPOL because campaign coverage exists to get them over GNG, for example — so if that were how it worked, then NPOL would literally mean nothing anymore and Wikipedia would just be a database of campaign brochures rather than an encyclopedia. So we have an established consensus that candidates for municipal office are accepted as notable only if they can be properly demonstrated as already having been notable for other reasons prior to their candidacies, or if their candidacies can be demonstrated as much more special than other people's candidacies, and are not automatically deemed to pass GNG just because some campaign coverage happens to exist. And whatever you think the distinction between "campaign coverage" and "coverage of rallies" would be, it's undercut by the fact that the rallies are campaign rallies.
People are also not special just because of what political party they happen to be associated with, or who they happen to hang around with, or who thinks they're "interesting". It is not our role to keep an article about everybody who happens to pop up in the current news cycle; our role is to keep articles about people whose notability claims pass the ten year test for enduring significance, and none of what you're saying constitutes strong evidence that she has attained that: nothing here suggests that people will still be looking for an article about her in 2029 even if she loses the election and fades away. Bearcat (talk) 06:50, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I know your position, and your interpretation of the current consensus. I disagree, I think even if Mrs. Zhou, God forbid, dropped dead tomorrow, San Franciscans will be interested in her mark on American history in 2029. I don't think you can be convinced, and I don't wish to argue with you further. I understand you think I'm not interpreting the guidelines right, and you understand I don't think you're right about the current consensus (even not assuming WP:Consensus can change). I don't see any point in further argument; you're likely to win anyway as I already pointed out in a previous comment. It's up to the closer what happens now, and other editors to consider my evidence. I knew when I posted it you would not accept it, but you're not the only one that's pro-deletion here. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 07:22, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jovanmilic97 (talk) 10:41, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Trillfendi: The percentage of votes gotten has absolutely nothing to do with notability. Vermin Supreme never even gets that much of the vote, he's lucky to receive half of a percent. See perennial candidate for a long list of other notable people who are lucky to get even 1% of the vote in their elections. Zhou is notable whether or not she becomes mayor, that's my position—if anything, her ability to get 5% of the vote bolsters her notability as it shows she has more support than her fellow perennial candidates. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 08:49, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Vermin Supreme's article is demonstrating notability for much more than just being a losing candidate. In actual fact, even most perennial candidates are not kept either, unless they can demonstrate notability for much more significant reasons than just being a perennial candidate per se — John Turmel, for example, doesn't have an article just for being a perennial candidate, he has an article because he has been verifiably named to the Guinness Book of Records as the single most perennially losing candidate in the entire worldwide history of politics. Bearcat (talk) 16:10, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Psiĥedelisto: The point is, if it wasn’t obvious, that she isn’t a notable politician, having lost her initial attempt at political office so disastrously. Is she notable in other areas? From what I’ve seen, no. Not enough for an article. If by an act of God she wins something then refund, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Trillfendi (talk) 04:15, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. MBisanz talk 03:26, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2019 Belgian F-16 crash

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2019 Belgian F-16 crash (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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WP:GNG WP:NOTNEWS Military aircraft crashes are non-notabler unless notable due to other factors such as notable casualty or casualties on the ground Petebutt (talk) 09:55, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Try and avoid invoking WP:AIRCRASH as it is only an essay and not a proper guideline, though it is more or less exactly what is required to assess if articles are noteworthy.--Petebutt (talk) 14:10, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Accidents involving light aircraft and military aircraft are mostly non-prominent. They account for many more accidents and incidents than larger civil aircraft. Military aircraft accidents may be suitable for inclusion in the relevant List of accidents and incidents involving military aircraft. For accidents involving light aircraft (maximum gross weight of 12,500 lb (5,670 kg) or less) or any military aircraft the standard for inclusion is:
  • the accident involved the death of a person of sufficient individual notability to have their own biography page in Wikipedia (and the biography is not solely due to them being an accident victim), or
  • the accident resulted in a significant change to the aircraft design or aviation operations, including changes to national or company procedures, regulations or issuance of an Airworthiness Directive (or the equivalent to an AD in the case of non-certified aircraft).
I concur with Petebutt that WP:AIRCRASH is only an advice essay, and not a formal policy or guideline, and that there may be other reasons why a crash is notable, but I'm not seeing any here. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. MBisanz talk 03:27, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Roshan Atta

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Roshan Atta (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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No references found in google about Roshan Atta پاک آرمی زندہ باد (talk) 08:27, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment There are no notability guidelines that require google search results. This actress had obituaries in two major newspapers, Dawn and The Sindh Times. The latter's website seems to have some problems, so I am unable to access it. I find it difficult to assess whether she meets WP:ACTOR for several reasons, including that the romanised titles of the films she appeared in are spelled differently in this article from the List of Sindhi-language films, and there are very few WP articles as yet (in any language Wikipedia) about the individual films - which is not evidence that they are not notable, just that no-one has yet written the articles. Also, while there are indeed few search results on Google for "Roshan Atta", the reasons for that could include that contemporary sources (in English or other languages) have not been digitised, or that a different romanised spelling is used. I will search in other databases, but at the moment, I would be reluctant to delete a pre-internet actor with two obituaries just for lack of other online sources. RebeccaGreen (talk) 10:29, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - In addition to the long list of film credits in the second obit, it is noted that she received a "life Achievement Award by the PTV, besides a number of awards by some private organiosations." It would be helpful to see if the first citation is archived somewhere. Netherzone (talk) 12:06, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Thesindhtimes isn't notable website and it is same as thekarachitimes or thetimesofkarachi it is user blog. according to wikipedia policies actor/actress must comply with wikipedia policies. And the result you seeing on google of roshan atta has been adjusted with roshan atta shops in india. The word 'atta' known as for wheat or bread so you are getting results of roshan wheat or roshan bread (when someone search for roshan atta).

If two articles are okay then dawn news and the news are fine i have added one more reference let see if someone add more.پاک آرمی زندہ باد (talk) 19:41, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep I have replaced The Sindh Times reference. I see no evidence that it is a user blog (although it has a blog, as many news sites do), and it is cited in many Wikipedia articles. I have added the PTV award to the article, and now that we have 3 news sources writing about her death, that is enough to Keep. RebeccaGreen (talk) 00:44, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Total three references added 1)thesindhtimes website has error [an error occurred while processing this directive] 2)dawn is fine 3) thenews added by me but where did you add PTV award to the article ?پاک آرمی زندہ باد (talk) 08:18, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. MBisanz talk 03:24, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Claudette Cain

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Claudette Cain (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails WP:POLITICIAN, along with her fellow mayors of Gloucester, Ontario, who are also up for deletion. Local coverage only. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:08, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete Not that notable. I agree with the nomination. It clearly fails WP:POLITICIAN. I mean Gloucester today, is a suburb of Ottawa. Not even its own city anymore and even if it was, it would not be a major one (10th largest, if you compare it to the other cities in the province). All the sources are from local news agencies and the individual, Claudette Cain, has not received significant news coverage because a quick Google search has revealed nothing of key importance. LefcentrerightTalk 09:40, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Google news is NOT a reliable metric for news coverage of events before 2010. For example, Caludette Cain is mentioned in a Globe and Mail article from 1997:"Mayors reassured taxes won't rise: But Ontario won't revive subsidies" on page 1 (photo on page A6) on 12 Aug 1997. Some Wikipedia editors appear to be under the mistaken impression that if it isn't available to them online, then it doesn't exist. Coverage of subject went beyond the Gloucester region even based on the existing references. --Big_iron (talk) 19:40, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As stated, this was in support of my first point, that Google News is woefully inadequate as a measure of news coverage other than for recent events. My second point was that the Ottawa Citizen which is already cited hardly qualifies as a local paper, being the primary English-language printed news source for eastern Ontario including the Ottawa valley as well as for western Quebec. --Big_iron (talk) 23:28, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The question of whether a newspaper is "local" or not, for the purposes of demonstrating the notability of a person who has to pass notability criteria that depend on having more than just routine local coverage, is not a question of the newspaper's distribution range — it is a question of the context of what the person is getting covered for. Even The New York Times is not "nationalizing" coverage for the purposes of making a municipal councillor in Yonkers or New Rochelle more nationally special than other smalltown municipal councillors — those towns are inside the NYT's local coverage area, so even the NYT is still just local coverage in that context. Bearcat (talk) 14:15, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Also GNG specifically states Notability is based on the existence of suitable sources, not on the state of sourcing in an article so this nomination is seriously flawed. --Big_iron (talk) 11:10, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I disagree. I mean Gloucester today is a SUBURB of Ottawa. If it still was a "city", it would not be the largest. It would have been the tenth largest. Just being a mayor of a city (not even the largest, if it still existed. It doesn't even exist anymore, so that is enough reason for the article not existing) is not enough reason for a Wikipedia article to be created. WP:POLITICIAN reads: "Just being an elected local official...does not guarantee notability." WP:POLITICIAN also reads: "Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage." A mere mention in a newspaper could not possibly be considered significant press coverage. LefcentrerightTalk 11:19, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • To be fair, a city's ordinal ranking in a list of cities-by-size is not part of Wikipedia's notability criteria for mayors at all. Neither affirmatively ("largest city in X" is not a notability freebie that exempts a mayor from having to be substantive and well-sourced enough to clear NPOL) nor negatively (ranking tenth is not a demerit if the article is substantive and well-sourced enough to clear NPOL.) It's simply not relevant whether a town or city ranks first, tenth, fiftieth or five millionth on any given list. Bearcat (talk) 14:20, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • NEXIST only applies to the extent that suitable, notability-improving sources are demonstrated to exist, and does not magically shut down an AFD discussion if all you do is speculate about the possibility that suitable sources might exist. Bearcat (talk) 14:15, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Again please read the standard: "before proposing or nominating an article for deletion, or offering an opinion based on notability in a deletion discussion, editors are strongly encouraged to attempt to find sources for the subject in question and consider the possibility of existent sources if none can be found by a search". Also, on a separate point, news items on the contest for mayor of Ottawa were classified as news of "national" interest by the CBC. Also, the point that Gloucester is now a suburb of the city of Ottawa is not relevant since that does not relate to the post of mayor at the time that this person held the post. --Big_iron (talk) 17:14, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Political notability is judged exclusively in terms of offices that the person held, and has absolutely nothing to do with any office they ran for but lost. So the fact that the Ottawa election got more nationalized coverage than Gloucester's mayoral elections ever did does not contribute any new notability points, because she didn't win the Ottawa mayoral election. Bearcat (talk) 22:44, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Gloucester is large enough that its mayor would have enough reliable sources to have a Wikipedia page. Of course there's not going to be that much on the web, she was mayor in the 1990s.-- Earl Andrew - talk 05:26, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Articles are not exempted from having to be substantial and well-sourced just because their notability claim predates the Google News era. We are allowed to cite print-only coverage, such as newspapers and books, but we judge notability based on the depth and quality of the sources that are shown to exist — merely speculating about the possibility that better sources might exist does not change the equation if you don't put in the effort to find and show them. Yes, poorly sourced articles can be kept if better sources can be shown — but we still only consider sources that people show, and not sources that people merely speculate about. Bearcat (talk) 14:15, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Glouchester is not a city that gives the mayor default notability. So unless actual sources are produced we delete the article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 07:04, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless article sees significant improvement. The old idea that a city's population size confers an automatic "inherent" notability freebie on a mayor regardless of the article's quality and depth was deprecated nearly a decade ago, as was the idea that mayors are automatically notable just because the local media routinely reports the election results. The notability of a mayor, rather, is demonstrated by writing a substantial article about their political significance — such as actually addressing specific important projects that they championed, specific issues that they were involved in, and on and so forth. For an example of a good article about a mayor of a place much smaller than Gloucester, ponder Marie Curtis — Long Branch was far too small to confer inherent notability on its mayors just because they existed, but an editor was able to find enough sources to support a genuinely substantial and detailed article that makes a strongly credible claim that she's much more special than the norm for smalltown mayors. And for an example of a city about the same size as Gloucester where the mayor's article is still clearly superior to this, consider Nancy Diamond, where the sources were carefully selected to ensure that the article's content addressed specific things she did as mayor (which not nearly enough articles about mayors do) rather than simply to verify and reverify that she got elected and then re-elected and then re-elected again (which is what far too many articles about mayors actually do). And conversely, places much larger than Gloucester have had their mayors deleted if the article just stated that the person existed as a mayor, and couldn't be improved with substantive content about their political importance.
    The notability test for mayors is not simply the ability to write and source that they existed, it is the ability to write and source that their mayoralty was important in a substantive and informative way — but this article, as written and sourced, is doing the former, not the latter. No prejudice against recreation in the future if somebody can find enough sources to support enough substance to move it from the former to the latter, and I'm certainly willing to reconsider this if somebody can get her over the real notability bar for mayors before this discussion closes — but local reportage of local election results doesn't do that, glancing mentions of her name in coverage of other people or things besides her don't do that, and on and so forth: we need sources that analyze and contextualize the importance of her mayoralty, not just sources which verify that she existed. Bearcat (talk) 14:36, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I know you do have an imaginary population limit (or perhaps an arbitrary limit of a city's "importance"), because you have created near-stub mayor articles before for medium sized cities (larger than Gloucester, granted, but not cities of 1 million people either). Anyway, I'm fairly certain a well written article can be created on Claudette Cain, if User:Big_iron is willing to do the research in time. -- Earl Andrew - talk 13:54, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Sure, I used to, just as we all did, back when a population test was the consensus. As soon as it got deprecated, I stopped, and only very rarely create articles about mayors at all anymore — I now only do it when I'm motivated to put in the kind of work that the current notability standard for mayors now demands, and there are only a very small handful of cities that I have anything approaching enough knowledge about to bother trying. I've even happily nominated some of my own past work on mayors for deletion if I couldn't get them from the old "population = automatically in" standard to the current "sourcing and substance has to be on point" standard. Under the current consensus for the notability of mayors, when I start an article about a mayor it looks like Doug Craig (politician): significant content about his mayoralty to make the article substantive and informative, and referenced to sources that support a lot more than just "he was elected and then re-elected and then re-elected again". Bearcat (talk) 15:48, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. MBisanz talk 03:24, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mitch Owens

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Fails WP:POLITICIAN. An interim mayor of Gloucester, Ontario (pop. 133K in 2016) who lost the subsequent election to Harry Allen (Gloucester, Ontario politician) (whose article has also been nominated for deletion). Clarityfiend (talk) 08:06, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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@SimonP: I do not know how you could consider Gloucester as a "sizeable town" when it is frankly no longer one (it is now a suburb of Ottawa) and even if it was, it would be the tenth largest in the province. Just being a mayor of town, is not enough reason for a Wikipedia article to be created. Mitch Owens is not notable at all. He has received no major news coverage at all. The reference section clearly suggests it. LefcentrerightTalk 19:30, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless the article sees significant improvement. The idea that a city's population hands its mayors an automatic notability freebie regardless of the article's quality or sourceability was deprecated almost a decade ago now — regardless of a town's or city's size, the notability standard that a mayor has to clear to earn an article in 2019 is the ability to write and source a substantive article that contextualizes and analyzes his importance. But that's not what this article does; it literally just states that he was appointed mayor after his predecessor's death and then was defeated in the first subsequent municipal election, says nothing whatsoever about anything he did in the mayor's chair, and then goes on to list a bunch of minor awards that aren't instant WP:ANYBIO passes. And the referencing isn't solid enough to get him over the bar that mayors actually have to clear, either: five of the nine footnotes are primary sources that are not support for notability at all, two of the four that are real media just go to verifiability of election results and don't speak to the notability of the people named in the election results at all, and the two sources that are actually about Mitch Owens in any non-trivial way aren't enough since it takes a lot more than just two sources to get a mayor over WP:NPOL #2. Mayors are not automatically notable just because you can verify that they existed; they are notable only when you can add enough sources to demonstrate that their mayoralty was important in some substantive way. Bearcat (talk) 15:30, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete the sourcing is inadequate to show notability, and being interim mayor is not a default sign of notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:49, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV and WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 02:49, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Robin and Linda Williams. MBisanz talk 03:23, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sugar for Sugar (Robin & Linda Williams album)

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Sugar for Sugar (Robin & Linda Williams album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Insufficient reliable sources after a web search to determine notability. Fails WP:NALBUM. Consider merge with Robin and Linda Williams. Willbb234Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 07:11, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Tracy Von Doom (talk) 11:13, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bihanga (disambiguation)

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Bihanga (disambiguation) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Unneeded per WP:Disambiguation, as there's only one Bihanga here. A {{distinguish}} or {{for}} hatnote at Bihanga and Bihangal would suffice, and we don't add terms to a disambiguation page for which a reference is needed for verification, as is the case with "bird" here. Tracy Von Doom (talk) 06:01, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 05:17, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

BoAt

[edit]
BoAt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails WP:ORGCRIT and WP:CORPDEPTH. GSS (talk|c|em) 05:10, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Based on my assessment of this discussion, the delete argument is based on concerns that the topic violates WP:NPOV and relates to an unused term, with another argument that even if used the term does not meet WP:NEO and WP:GNG inclusion guidelines. There is also concern that a number of keep arguments are being canvassed to the discussion. The keep arguments mostly rely on the term being used by non-social media sources, that NPOV issues can be resolved by editing and a number of claims about "truth" and that using the term highlights the misdeeds of the Chinese government. There are also a few merge arguments, which have been contested on the grounds that the relation of the term to any specific merge target is not clear from the sourcing.

On balance, even ignoring the canvassing concerns this seems like a delete consensus as the concerns based on WP:NEO and WP:GNG have not been satisfied; as noted on both pages a term being in use on its own is not sufficient to establish notability and the few sources provided have been contested on the grounds that they are overly short. The deeds of the Chinese government are also not a policy/guideline-based reason for keeping this; in general most of the keep arguments here are not grounded in policy and guideline. Finally merging has not gained a consensus and there are some valid concerns against a merge. Given the massive canvassing, I'll take the advice offered in the discussion here and salt the page after deletion; if folks want to restore it they ought to go to WP:DRV. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 12:00, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Chinazi

[edit]
AfDs for this article:
Chinazi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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There is no mention anywhere of the actual term "Chinazi" and the only non-social media sources that I could find that even mention the term is from Russia Today and Le Figaro. Seems to be a hashtag and different from the last AfD. — MarkH21 (talk) 04:35, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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References

  1. ^ Yu Jie. 納粹中國.
  2. ^ "反送中》新標籤#CHINAZI：抗爭失敗將送集「中」營". Liberty Times.
  3. ^ "La bandiera cinese con la svastica: i manifestanti di Hong Kong associano Pechino al nazismo". Rai News.
  4. ^ "„Chinazi" Hongkonger demonstrieren am 15. Wochenende in Folge". Berliner Zeitung.
  5. ^ "修例風波：遊行人士展示仿五星旗　砌納粹標誌". Oriental Daily News.
  6. ^ "ม็อบฮ่องกงชูธง "Chinazi" ไม่สนคำสั่งตำรวจห้ามชุมนุม รวมพลประท้วงต่อเนื่อง". โพสต์ทูเดย์.
  7. ^ "香港再发警民冲突 又有示威者眼睛被打伤". Radio France Internationale.
  8. ^ "El barrio de Wanchai en Hong Kong trata de recuperarse tras un sábado de violencia". Swissinfo.
  • Hardly "in-depth" - on the topic of "Chinazi" itself, the articles just verify its existence with 2 sentences each. The Rai News article is 4 paragraphs, with 3 paragraphs about one day's protests and 2 sentences about the existence of the "#chinazi" slogan. The Liberty Times article gives 2 sentences that states that the hashtag is spreading in social media, followed by an interview of a social activist who believes that China conforms to Nazism plus another person who believes that Hong Kongers will be sent to re-education camps. — MarkH21 (talk) 03:56, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @MarkH21:I agree your point and they did not have in-depth coverage. But WP:NOTNEO is written that "To support an article about a particular term or concept, we must cite what reliable secondary sources say about the term or concept, not just sources that use the term (see use–mention distinction).". I think "in-depth coverage" is not the important factor of support this term. --SCP-2000 (talk) 04:56, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • That appears to be a WP:SPS - at least I don't see evidence of peer review. Furthermore the article only makes passing mention of the term as creation of a single blogger as part of an overall section about the tension between the Leninist multiculturalist framework of the Chinese legal apparatus and Han racism. So it doesn't really contribute to WP:GNG per WP:SIGCOV. Simonm223 (talk) 14:43, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following set of comments were added by new users with few or no edits outside this topic, and are likely the result of off-site canvassing. ST47 (talk) 03:21, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

References

  1. ^ https://twitter.com/hashtag/chinazi
  2. ^ https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/chinazi/top/?hl=zh-hk
  3. ^ https://scontent.fhkg10-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69954212_10158060289767448_8532047039964381184_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQn5e2OsirRjOpDNuGVzYKbKW9yNuz1oVu_2CyS614VzQgy39MdoVaCTHmB58aBR1cc&_nc_ht=scontent.fhkg10-1.fna&oh=b07bad73a7de4aa31f18a18c428e2528&oe=5DFCEA75
  • It should be kept as it is a trending word, people have the right to know more about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChongDon2000 (talk • contribs) 02:56, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The term is gaining popularity in Hong Kong. While we do not have to endorse the use of the term, Wikipedia should keep the entry as it has enough significance. Hsk0114 (talk) 03:04, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • This entry shall be kept because the term is associated with many incidents and people, not only limited to HongKongese but also people in other parts of the world, it is a witness of history. An entry shall not be deleted simply because it describes unpleasant matters, or else entries relating to Nazi, KKK and so on shall be deleted as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Billy B870 (talk • contribs) 03:04, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • This entry shall be kept because the term is already widely spread all over the world and is recognized as a meaningful word. The word is already there and Wikipedia is a platform to explain such words. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lcklouis (talk • contribs) 03:07, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • This entry should be kept. Since it already became a well-known term to descibe the current Chinese government's negative action towards Tibet, Xinjiang and Hong Kong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.215.188.30 (talk) 03:08, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • This entry shall be kept on Wikipedia because it is exactly reflecting how China reacts to Hong Kong in extradition bill, internally to XinJiang, globally to other countries. They are repeating the human’s mistakes in Nazi and destroying human rights and dignity. Keeping this word could help the world to better understand what China is doing now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kayanskayans (talk • contribs) 03:09, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • This entry should be kept as it makes people understand the level of severity about human rights in China. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kanema (talk • contribs) 03:10, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. POV problem can be solved without deletion.Tommy123ng (talk) 03:10, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Deletion should not be used as a way to improve an article, or a reaction to a bad article.--HKUarhcer (talk) 12:22, 24 September 2019 (UTC) — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that editors have been canvassed to this discussion. [reply]
  • Keep - There has been an increasing use of the term "Chinazi" in both real life and on the Internet basis. Examples are, this has been on Twitter trends in certain regions, has been mentioned by multiple magazine columnists, as well as having published books focusing on this topic. As for the issue of having a biased POV, I believe this problem can be solved by adding in EVEN more sources, instead of deleting the article altogether. Keep in mind that the Chinazi term might have an increasing popularity and influence as the Hong Kong crisis continues. In my point of view, I would hope for the page to be kept and constantly edited and updated in order to let it reach sufficient quality. But if you have other opinions, I am all ears. --Huggaso (talk) 15:14, 24 September 2019 (UTC) — Huggaso (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Delete besides some edits that violated WP:NPOV and WP:OR, I am not seeing very few reliable sources that are covering this term (or even including the term in their coverage). -- LuK3 (Talk) 03:34, 24 September 2019 (UTC).[reply]
  • Keep. The imperfect writing and content within the page can be further modified and developed with reliable reference and descriptions. Deletion is not a beneficial way to deal with such newly developed idea which is not any sort of spam or fake fact.Tree♔ 06:36, 24 September 2019 (UTC) — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that hf9631 (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. [reply]
  • Off-topics. To lihkger, I know that you are following this Article deletion discussion and you want to keep this article , but now your action is off-site canvassing.It will not have any effect of this Article deletion discussion. If you really want to improve "Chinazi" this article, I suggest you can translate that article in Chinese Wikipedia into English. I hope you can understand. Thank you!--SCP-2000 (talk) 08:15, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Wikipedia is about the truth and reflect the truth. If the page is dectribing what happen in the world, it should be kept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ojvolleyball (talk • contribs) 12:51, 24 September 2019 (UTC) — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that editors have been canvassed to this discussion. [reply]
  • Delete and salt WP:NEOLOGISM is, as others have pointed out, the key policy, along with WP:RECENTISM in general. Furthermore, with sources mainly from RT, there's the question of whether this neologim is part of a WP:FRINGE worldview, in which case the question would be whether sources not expressing that view exist to validate it is a notable fringe position. Simonm223 (talk) 14:21, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I modified my !vote to include that this article should be salted prior to deletion. With the number of SPAs who have been canvassed into this discussion, I'm pretty certain we'll be back here for a third deletion in no time if we don't nip this nonsense in the bud. Simonm223 (talk) 13:01, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep It is questionable to say this article breach the rule neutrality.--Fourthbus Talk 20:01, 24 September 2019 (UTC) — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Bdgzczy (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. [reply]
  • Keep, the term has been grown to public and it can be easily found and featured in various news reports. FYI the Chinese version is sound as sufficient reliable references are cited. Btw, as a HOF editor in the Chinese Wikipedia, yet I'm not very active here, I believe myself familiar to the Wikipedia policy. Hope my voice would stay.--JAK (talk) 20:42, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Almost all of the Keep comments here are not making any argument on the points of notability (need reliable sources with significant coverage) and WP:NOTDIC (being a popular word does not merit inclusion in Wikipedia). Any editor wishing to effectively contribute and make an argument for keeping the article should do more than say that the term is becoming increasing popular on social media. Bringing up "mentioned by multiple ___" without giving any actual reliable sources with in-depth coverage does not do anything to that effect either. — MarkH21 (talk) 21:02, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "反送中》新標籤#CHINAZI：抗爭失敗將送集「中」營". Liberty Times.
  2. ^ "La bandiera cinese con la svastica: i manifestanti di Hong Kong associano Pechino al nazismo". Rai News.
The Rai source is valid but not significant coverage for "Chinazi". It has one paragraph about the "Chinazi" flag in connection to reporting about a Hong Kong protest. That's it.

Durante la manifestazione vietata di oggi a Hong Kong, è stata avvistata una bandiera nella folla: una bandiera rossa come quella cinese ma le cui stelle formavano una svastica. Uno slogan formato dalle parole "Cina" e "nazista" era associato alla bandiera: #chinazi. Lo slogan #chinazi è diventato popolare tra gli oppositori per accusare il regime di Pechino di violare i diritti umani. Altri hanno criticato la mancanza di rispetto per le vittime del secondo conflitto mondiale.

It is a good source for a mention in Tactics and methods surrounding the 2019 Hong Kong protests, which is already present. But I don't think it is significant to sustain notability for a standalone article. --MarioGom (talk) 18:55, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)The existence of a single article on Liberty Times and a few passing mentions elsewhere do not make for WP:LASTING WP:SIGCOV of this neologism. Furthermore, if the only coverage of this is in explicitly pan-green sources, WP:FRINGE arises again as it could be argued that their perspective is clouded by their bias toward the government in Beijing. Do you have any evidence that anybody who doesn't have an axe to grind with Xi Jinping has noted any significance to this neologism? Simonm223 (talk) 18:59, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I just reread the article, and it, along with its sources, is very definitely about a word, not a concept. The concepts involved are the current PRC regime and the Communist Party, about which we already have articles. As I said before, if there are realiable sources writing about encyclopedic topics, which do not include words, that compare them to the Nazis then their content can be considered for inclusion in such articles, in the light of WP:WEIGHT. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:34, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Simonm223, MarioGom, and MarkH21:I found a source Quartz[1] that have in-depth coverage about "Chinazi" this term and it's background. --SCP-2000 (talk) 21:06, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: In addition to what others have brought up, I do not believe that the term ChiNazi is independently notable from the ongoing protests in Hong Kong. Much of the article, namely the Background section, is entirely irrelevant to the term, after this irrelevant information is removed, all this "article" amounts to is 'ChiNazi is a term used to compare the government of the PRC to that of Nazi Germany, mainly used during the Hong Kong protests of 2019". If the information that the term exists is useful, it can be merged into one of the pages on the 2019 Hong Kong protests, such as Tactics and methods surrounding the 2019 Hong Kong protests, which already has info on the ChiNazi protest banner. -Thespündragon 01:21, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: This article provides good introduction for the term from both historical and etymological approach. If we need to delete it due to NEO, probably we also need to delete Selfie, Singlish and Black Lives Matter.-Angelalive (talk) 02:14, 25 September 2019 (UTC) — Angelalive (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Comment Well, it seem canvassed everywhere. See the thread at hkgolden.com https://forum.hkgolden.com/thread/7121207. Matthew hk (talk) 03:19, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge: With Tactics and methods surrounding the 2019 Hong Kong protests. That is where it is relevant. Widespread use outside the context of those protests could be reason to keep a seperate page, but I don't see evidence for that. Information on intent and use of the flag and the phrase in relation to those protests is useful. Hence it should be merged with the page that already covers its use, albeit in less detail. Additionally, sourcing an explanation on why this specific comparison between PRC and Nazis is being made would be preferable to the current WP:SOAP original argument in the article. Tophattingson (talk) 12:29, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I agree with you. Merge to Tactics and methods surrounding the 2019 Hong Kong protests can improve that article quality and update that article. --SCP-2000 (talk) 13:20, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Throwing the canvassed template on anyone here who puts anything other than Delete is really quite inappropriate. I am here because I saw a Chinazi flag on twitter and wanted to see if there was any context behind it, looked the subject up on wikipedia, and saw this mess of an article and a deletion discussion about it. It's clear to me that there's insufficient notability for this to be a seperate article but that the topic would warrant a section on an article describing tactics used by Hong Kong protesters.Tophattingson (talk) 15:38, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • [11] When an editor shows up for the first time since April just to participate in this AfD, and in the process logs more edits to said AfD than they'd logged in the year previous, and when there's extensive evidence of canvassing, I'd say my suspicion is appropriate. Simonm223 (talk) 16:41, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • Being a frequent editor is not obligatory for participation in this discussion. I do not edit frequently because my limited edits are usually from correcting issues as and when I see them while casually browsing Wikipedia. I believe my explanation of why I am discussing this topic should be sufficient reason to end this suspicion.Tophattingson (talk) 16:52, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • Note: I think we can all stop adding further canvassing notices here unless a very obvious case comes up. The bulk of obvious cases are hidden under the hat notice already. These happened before the page was protected. Since then, a small number of later comments are from apparently canvassed users, but that should be harmless. We should trust the closer on reading the discussion carefully and pondering the merits of the arguments. Not a vote after all. --MarioGom (talk) 16:39, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Further suggestion on what information would be relevant as part of the merge. 1 - Timeline of Nazi comparisons by the Hong Kong protesters. Seems to involve reference to events on the mainland, as part of the increasing scope and ambition of the protest. 2 - The specific flag design, origins, use. 3 - Possibly finding sources on the protesters reasoning behind the comparison. 4 - There seems to be an attempt to organise a specific Chinazi-focused protest on 29/09/2019 , if this happens and is substantial, then explaining the use of the term is important. I would point to Media portrayal of the Ukrainian crisis as an example of useful inclusion of explanation of Nazi comparisons in an article. I would also suggest that context of nazi comparisons is useful for a general audience, and not merely those involved with the protest, because of how provocative such a comparison is. Indeed, the provocative nature of it has been a focus of recent reporting.[2]Tophattingson (talk) 16:17, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Hui, Mary. "How Hong Kong protesters are defending their use of Nazi imagery". Quartz. Retrieved 2019-09-27.
  2. ^ https://qz.com/1715719/hong-kong-protesters-defend-their-use-of-nazi-imagery/
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The result was speedy delete. The article was speedily deleted by Justlettersandnumbers at 22:03, September 21, 2019 (UTC) per WP:CSD#A7. Mz7 (talk) 23:41, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

NolaCon (infosec conference)

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NolaCon (infosec conference) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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I found no notability for this conference. SL93 (talk) 02:21, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of Friday the 13th characters. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:31, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tina Shepard (Friday the 13th)

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Tina Shepard (Friday the 13th) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Proposing merge into media franchise's article. I believe that a lack of sources covering her in particular is a major indicator of this. From AnUnnamedUser (open talk page) 01:24, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Galactus#Heralds. MBisanz talk 03:22, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tyrant (Marvel Comics)

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Tyrant (Marvel Comics) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Non-notable fictional character TTN (talk) 01:15, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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(UTC)

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The result was redirect to Galactus#Heralds. RL0919 (talk) 04:47, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Red Shift (comics)

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Red Shift (comics) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Non-notable fictional character TTN (talk) 01:12, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 01:01, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Assyrian Jews

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Assyrian Jews (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Duplicate of History of Jews in Kurdistan, most references used in Assyrian Jews even describe this subgroup as "Kurdish Jews". The creator of the page also furthermore made some suspicious edits here[12] which makes me wonder why this page was created in the first place. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 23:55, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Parts of the article can be copy-pasted if its neutral and not POV. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 08:47, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kurdish history doesn't extend far back enough to encompass the Assyrian identity, so mislabeling these people "Kurdish Jews" would not only rewrite their history, but reduce it by thousands of years. Furthermore, Assyrian Jews speak Assyrian Chaldean Aramaic dialect, which has no linguistic ties to Kurdish people. Feel free to watch the video on the page to witness it yourself. I have a whole library of books on Assyrian Jews that I can share with you via email anytime, and they're all primary sources from hundreds of years ago. Information is power. Please let me know if you're brave enough to view it. 0limits (talk) 07:59, 21 September 2019 (UTC)0limits[reply]

First of all, the article is named History of Jews in Kurdistan and not Kurdish Jews, so there's no rewriting history there. It's becoming clear that this is POVFORK. I would support a redirect if not a deletion. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 08:47, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as WP:NPOV and WP:OR. I first commented on this when it was in draft. The specific words I objected to were changed, with the edit comment, Please let me know if any other words in this article lack a neutral tone. NPOV is not about vocabulary, it's about intent. The goal of this was obviously to promote a particular viewpoint. The original edit comment, I recently stumbled upon this ancient group of people while doing research on the ancient people of antiquity. To my surprise, they still exist to this day, and I have communicated with many of them on Facebook. In honor of them, I spent a lot of time putting together this short excerpt and hope that others can help me expand on this article of significant cultural importance makes that clear., as does this talk page comment.

    The sourcing is horrible. We've got File:Assyrian National Anthem in Hebrew & Aramaic.jpg, which is stated as "Own work". What does that mean? Did 0limits create it from scratch? Is this some piece of printed material they photographed, and if so, where was it published and who wrote it? The description field itself is a political statement. Similar comments can be made about the video. And looking through the more conventional sources, none strike me as solid WP:RS WP:SECONDARY sources. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:07, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

PS, this seems like a perfectly reasonable search term, so I'm fine with turning this into a redirect to an appropriate target. I'd also be fine with a new article at this title, but it would need to be WP:TNT, with good sourcing, and careful attention to WP:NPOV by a disinterested writer. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no such thing as Assyrian Jews Please delete this entry. It was made as an effort to use many people as possible for Assyrian agenda an for that matter describe the Jews of Kurdistan as Assyrian. History of Jews in Kurdistan is a neutral source and there is a entry in Hebrew for the Nash Didan Jews "נאש דידן" wich are part of the Jews of Kurdistan. In my community website at http://nashdidan.co.il/en/nash-didan/ there is a short translation to English of this entry. In no way we describe ourselves as Assyrians, and History shows we lived as separate communities in northern Persia. In our Facebook group I and other Admins delete Assyrian propaganda posts daily. Sorry if This is against any guidelines this is my first Wiki Post.... NashDidan(talk) 22:02, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I know little about this subject, if it's even a subject at all, but I do know that it's a red flag when people cite genetics in support of an article about an ethnic/religious/cultural group, as this article does. One thing that modern genetics has shown us is that it has little relevance to those other fields. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:50, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:TNT. They might exist, but this is a huge mess, starting with the video and most of it synthesis or original research. Bearian (talk) 14:26, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was procedural close. Please discuss at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sylvie Silva (2nd nomination). — JJMC89 (T·C) 03:59, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sylvie Silva

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Sylvie Silva (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Apparent re-creation of page deleted by CSD; notability questionable due to lack of sources. From AnUnnamedUser (open talk page) 00:44, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Beauty pageants-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 01:04, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 01:05, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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